Work paying for F and J flights

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garyjohn951

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I don't call it luck, just now being able to spend hard earned money on ourselves. Have spent over 30 yrs in Y with kids, they have now left home and what money we have we use for us.
 

tscharke

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as a recently new father I guess I am going to have to get used to that for a longtime...;)
 

Optics

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garyjohn951 said:
I have found this thread most interesting. Correct me if I am wrong but everyone so far works for a large aussie ot multi-national comapny. To small business person like me, a "money to burn" company.
Well in small business where the dollar spent is coming out of the pocket of the person earning the dollar there are no hard and fast rules. It would be nice to set a policy of J over 5 hours. Bad luck if the trip doesn't pay its way, cause unlike multi-nationals it can't be allocated against the total budget. Bottom line the moneys gone. Thus for work I travel Y and use my points for upgrades where I can get them, points that I have paid for. The only time I pay for J is when I travel with my wife on holidays and that is out of my pocket from my after tax salary.
I understand your position, but its a case of taking the good with the bad. I assume you own the small business? If so, then that is a choice you have made for your own reasons, probably including not having to work for a boss and you also get the benefit from your efforts. If you save money by travelling Y, then that is money in your pocket (a big incentive). Believe me, life is not all roses with a large company. My international travel is almost always to Europe or Canada. I generally depart Melbourne on Sunday or Monday pm and land back in Melbourne again very early the next Saturday am. I spend about 60 hours travelling for 2-3 days on the ground in the destination. If they want me to do that flying in Y, then bad luck, I won't do it.
 

simongr

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Optics said:
My international travel is almost always to Europe or Canada. I generally depart Melbourne on Sunday or Monday pm and land back in Melbourne again very early the next Saturday am. I spend about 60 hours travelling for 2-3 days on the ground in the destination. If they want me to do that flying in Y, then bad luck, I won't do it.

For me its intl J/F or no flying (subject to availability constraints such as recently with KA) - it was in fact a question during my interviews - what is your travel policy and is there any sniff that it might change.

If they changed it here I would look for a new job - and when I start thinking about my next move (across, up or out) it will be a question there - intl J/F or no flying...
 

garyjohn951

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I wasn't ment to be critizing, but it may have come out that way, but the thread had all been about how big business and I just wanted to show there is another side. Yes I own the shares in the family business but really the bank owns it..........................
 

simongr

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I agree that there are two very different sides to this - and I think two quite different approaches to business travel. Being a corporate traveller and in a relatively mobile profession I can choose whether I travel or not - being a business owner you dont have that luxury.
 
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tscharke

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and considering that the price difference between some J & Y fares are hard to justify...if I was a SB owner then I know which one I would be using!
 

Optics

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garyjohn951 said:
I wasn't ment to be critizing, but it may have come out that way, but the thread had all been about how big business and I just wanted to show there is another side. Yes I own the shares in the family business but really the bank owns it..........................
I didn't consider it ciriticism, and I hope my reply was not sensed as being too reactive :) . Owning a small business is something I can only have the greatest admiration for, I could never do it.
 

garyjohn951

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And while I now fly J for holidays with my wife I steadfastly refuse to pay the over the top full prices. I either do a RTW or D specials that are around if you book ahead. In June [off-season for work ] we are taking one of the Finair J specials they had available. Mel-HKG [QF]; HKG-HEL [AY], HEL-LED [AY], LED-LHR [BA], LHR-HKG-MEL [QF] for $7,200 each inc taxes. Onlt just double Y, not 3-4 times that full Y is.
 

Homer

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garyjohn951 said:
...for work I travel Y and use my points for upgrades where I can get them, points that I have paid for.

I am in a similar situation. I own half of a medium-sized software business and we've been reasonably successful over the past 15 years. Therefore I have "rewarded" myself for about 7 years now by always travelling in J domestically and internationally. However for domestic travel I only buy a full J fare as a last resort. My preference and usual method is to buy a Y fare and then use points to upgrade to J. Internationally however I am not prepared to take the risk of not getting the upgrade so I always buy J or F.

I have a question for any of the corporate types who would care to answer and I apologise in advance if this seems like I'm having a go at you because I genuinely am not. I understand that some of you expect your employer to pay for J or better flights on some longer sectors. I am curious to know whether you ever use your FF points to upgrade a Y fare in cases like this? Or, instead, do you believe that the FF points in your account all belong to you, even if you've earned some (or indeed most) of them on business travel or, perhaps, by virtue of a corporate credit card?

I have asked this question of some of my team in the past and most tell me that they don't see any value in upgrading their business flights and that they would prefer to keep "their" points to use for family vacations. As a shareholder it seems perfectly obvious to me that a proportion of these points actually belongs to the company and should be used to offset the cost of a J class fare, for work purposes, where possible.
 

tscharke

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its my opinion that if my work requires me to travel on weekends, away from my family and quite frequently then these are the little things I expect in return. I would not use any FF points to upgrade a business flight.

Out of interest, our company currently uses a AMEX corp travel account for flight costs and use the points for staff incentives (vouchers etc)
 

IainF

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Homer said:
I have a question for any of the corporate types who would care to answer and I apologise in advance if this seems like I'm having a go at you because I genuinely am not. I understand that some of you expect your employer to pay for J or better flights on some longer sectors. I am curious to know whether you ever use your FF points to upgrade a Y fare in cases like this? Or, instead, do you believe that the FF points in your account all belong to you, even if you've earned some (or indeed most) of them on business travel or, perhaps, by virtue of a corporate credit card?

I have asked this question of some of my team in the past and most tell me that they don't see any value in upgrading their business flights and that they would prefer to keep "their" points to use for family vacations. As a shareholder it seems perfectly obvious to me that a proportion of these points actually belongs to the company and should be used to offset the cost of a J class fare, for work purposes, where possible.

I spend a significent amount of my own time travelling for work, this includes early mornings, late nights, weekends and public holidays...

I regard the points I earn as going some of the way to making up for all of this extra time. In fact if you work it out.. 240,000 AA points is worth two J tickets to the UK, or about $20,000.
If you take into account I worked 120 % of available working days last year (Dont ask, it sucked) then I am still under $ wise but it goes some way to making it up.

If my boss asked me to use points for travel I would be happy to oblige, but I would then severely restrict the travelling times I would be available for. Ie only 9-5 Mon to Fri..... :D
 

Evan

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Yes... well.... For tax reasons is easier just to let them have them. My large company lets me keep mine, but i also use then for upgrades since our policy is Y, lets just say if the company said no FF points to me i would not be working there, thats being too tight !!
E
 

Homer

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Don't get me wrong. I wasn't proposing that you shouldn't earn FF points. And as you note there is the issue of FBT too...

So it seems that some people do use their FF points for upgrading business travel, which is what I do. I was just curious to know if others felt this way too.
 

Evan

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I suspect a few like me get sent only Y and if you can get am upgrade its sometimes worth your own sanity !
Mind you i got lucky last night, no J upgrade possible (booked out with paying pax) but economy was not too full and managed to get a row of 4 blocked for me :) so just arm rests up and go to sleep ! not quiet a sky bed but works for me.

E
 

IainF

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I do upgrade on the legs where it will make sense...

Last year I did HKG-SIN on CX and got an OPUP to J, I was connecting with QF SIN to PER as an overnight flight and I upgraded that leg as I had to go straight to a conference.
That was a coughpy flight even in J and I was still exhausted at the end of the day, but no doubt much better than if I was in whY....:D

I can cope with most trips in whY, specially if a day flight, but sometimes....

I also would never do a straight SYD-LHR in whY.. maybe in WT+ but I would go via HKG and have a decent break.
 
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shillard

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Homer said:
I have a question for any of the corporate types who would care to answer and I apologise in advance if this seems like I'm having a go at you because I genuinely am not. I understand that some of you expect your employer to pay for J or better flights on some longer sectors. I am curious to know whether you ever use your FF points to upgrade a Y fare in cases like this? Or, instead, do you believe that the FF points in your account all belong to you, even if you've earned some (or indeed most) of them on business travel or, perhaps, by virtue of a corporate credit card?

I have asked this question of some of my team in the past and most tell me that they don't see any value in upgrading their business flights and that they would prefer to keep "their" points to use for family vacations. As a shareholder it seems perfectly obvious to me that a proportion of these points actually belongs to the company and should be used to offset the cost of a J class fare, for work purposes, where possible.

It's very simple - what a company gives to a worthy employee, it gets back manyfold.

If I am expected to spend time travelling that I would otherwise spend with my family - eg overnight travel, weekend travel, etc - I expect proper compensation. That compensation comes not in the form of cash, but in FF points, status credits and any credit card points that accompany them.

If an employer doesn't like that proposition, they can look elsewhere for an employee and I will look elsewhere for an employer. Not too hard with 4% unemployment and critical labour shortages in most sectors.
 

vt01

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Homer said:
I have a question for any of the corporate types who would care to answer and I apologise in advance if this seems like I'm having a go at you because I genuinely am not. I understand that some of you expect your employer to pay for J or better flights on some longer sectors. I am curious to know whether you ever use your FF points to upgrade a Y fare in cases like this? Or, instead, do you believe that the FF points in your account all belong to you, even if you've earned some (or indeed most) of them on business travel or, perhaps, by virtue of a corporate credit card?

I have asked this question of some of my team in the past and most tell me that they don't see any value in upgrading their business flights and that they would prefer to keep "their" points to use for family vacations. As a shareholder it seems perfectly obvious to me that a proportion of these points actually belongs to the company and should be used to offset the cost of a J class fare, for work purposes, where possible.
Like many others, I travel during my time and although I might get 8 hours back as a day in lieu, it doesn't take into account all the evenings that I am away from my family. Plus the days are generally longer when working in a different location. My company gets plenty of 'extra' unpaid work from me as it does from most people that travel for business.
So to me, the FF points are a little compensation. I do use them to upgrade on some Y business flights I have to take. I also use them to take family on holidays.
Now if the shareholders will just agree to allow the company to actually pay me for the work I do and give up some of their dividends then I'll happily give the company my FF points!
 

simongr

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Homer said:
I am curious to know whether you ever use your FF points to upgrade a Y fare in cases like this? Or, instead, do you believe that the FF points in your account all belong to you, even if you've earned some (or indeed most) of them on business travel or, perhaps, by virtue of a corporate credit card?

Hmm - luckily I dont fly whY so I dont have to think about this - but I do upgrade J fares to F using points - that's my choice and the business actually gets the benefit as I am more refreshed at the other end.

I dont think that the shareholders actually do pay for the points - they pay for the fares. - the only way to get me to NY is to fly me - and fly me on a decent carrier - so the points are a perk yes but more than offset by the times I miss out on tings with family. Also I dont get paid for conference calls at 11PM or 5Am - given that the value of FF points is say 1c per points - I basically get a bonus osf maybe $3K per year

Also FF points are not an efficient way of completing business travel - esp if people are meant to be flying in J - you need to plan a year + in advance and I am lucky if six months ahead can be planned...
 

garyjohn951

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The quote was " I regard the points I earn as going some of the way to making up for all of this extra time. In fact if you work it out.. 240,000 AA points is worth two J tickets to the UK, or about $20,000. "

Of course to a company it is not worth paying the $20000 in lieu because the $20000 is actually much more once you add 5% payroll tax, 2% workcover, 9% super levy , etc etc etc . More $25000 - $30000 really

So yes in this case if I employed you, I would easily give you the 240000 points you got and expect you to give me as the employer the free overtime for flying etc.
 
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