Why would one become an AA member?

[streety]

Hi all,

I'm very new to the world of FrequentFlyer as most of you would have by now realised so i'm sorry about all the questions.

What are the advantages of joining the AA loyalty program as everyone around here seems to have done?

Streety

 

[NM]

For me the benefit is in the burn rate of the miles earned. For my travel patterns, I actually earn more AA miles than I would earn QF FF points for the same flights (since AA pays status bonus for CX flights and QF does not). But the burn rate for the miles is way better for the type of awards I want to redeem.

For example my last redemption was for 3 x business class return flights BNE-MEL-AKL. Only went via MEL because that was the only routing with 3 business class award seats during January school holidays. QF wanted 300,000 FF points + A$700 in taxes and fuel fines. AA cost me 105,000 miles plus $148 in extras.

I have QF Lifetime Gold status, so that means I have lounge access even on AA domestic flights and means I am reasonably up the waitlist priority queue if I was to use QF FF points for an international upgrade (the only think I use them for now).

The 8 x system-wide upgrades from AA for reaching Executive Platinum status should come in handy too.

Its not for everyone, but does work out significantly better for me.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

You need to look at your own urn and burn patterns.

For me AA does not stack up.

My Circumstances

For flights bought: They are mainly discount QF domestic which would often get zero AA points but which earn 1000 QF points. The 1000 minimum is a very good earn rate for short haul domestic.

I also sometimes stay at hotels which give me some points direct QF.

Credit Card earn:
I currently have a free Rewards Maximiser, free QF Amex and free for life VISA.

Many merchants do not take Amex...so CitibankVISA gives me the maimum earn of 1.0 per $. No Aussie VISA or MC can get points to AA.

Where AMEX is accpted I use the Maximiser as it earns 1.5 points per $. This can go to AA via SPG but ata poor rate. To QF it goes 1 for 1.

For any QF spend I use the QF Amex as it earns at 2.25 per $.

CC Promotions...with AMEX and Earth I picked up 100,000 points over 9 months for my wife and I. These points went direct QF...no such bonuses to AA have been offered for Aus residents.

The only bonuses I have seen for AA have been small...ie newsetter sign on and shopping promotion.


My burn

What I aim for are aifares for my family of 5 for overeseas holiday.

Because there are 5 of us being able to pool all my points from many sources is often important to me.

Amex earn to AA would take mea long time to earn rewards for 5...and flying Melbourne to NZ has no appeal.


I look at routes which are woth more than 1.6 cents per km. I am currently considering RTW OneWorld redemption which would be at 2+.

I also keep an eye out for cheap specials and buy rather than redem when it makes sense to do so.

Whereas I often redeem at peek times. For eample I am off this Easter for 5 to New Caledonia and two easters back i was in thailand with 5 as well.

As I have the Maximiser I am stockiling points there:
*as they have attractive burn rates
*they have occasional conversion specials to boost your points.

Maximiser also has specials on its TravelKey from time to time at attractive rates. the normal conversion for SYB BKK is attractive too.

With Maximiser you can also export to Virgin Atlantic at attractive rates. I\They sometimes have specials on conversion to boost the points. Reportedly upgrading is easier for low status members as well.

While a Business Class redemption might be nice (and I did do some many years back) the reality is that 5 economy tickets can be had pretty readily say every two years or less vs 5 business would take way too long...plus getting 5 at once may be difficult.

I don't have status.....so Business Class Upgrades are also unlikely...and again I am looking at a party of 5.

I do however get cheap Qantas Club Memberships for my wife and I. This gives us QC access for both our work and lesisure travel including when the 5 of us travel.

Now yes I have to pay more in fuel fines...but the bonus points I have picked up, along with much better CC conversion rates more than make up for it.

My QC membership gives me QC access in Aus and Overseas.


This optimises my earn and burn.


You need to calculate what is optimum for you.

For each FF it is different..

 

[NM]

Credit Card earn:
I currently have a free Rewards Maximiser, free QF Amex and free for life VISA.

Many merchants do not take Amex...so CitibankVISA gives me the maimum earn of 1.0 per $. No Aussie VISA or MC can get points to AA.

Where AMEX is accpted I use the Maximiser as it earns 1.5 points per $. This can go to AA via SPG but ata poor rate. To QF it goes 1 for 1.

For any QF spend I use the QF Amex as it earns at 2.25 per $.

I also have an Amex Rewards Maximiser card. I have never transferred any credit card points to my AA account. All my AA miles are from flying and the odd car rental or survey etc. I expect I will eventually use my Amex points to transfer to QF FF for use on international upgrades. I still have a few hundred thousand QF points in my account so won't need to worry about that for a while.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

My Maximiser is a relatively recent addition...and thanks to the Dec 10 bonus point promotion generated abouy 100,000 points in a month.


However based upon my normal expected Maximiser aquistion rate a redemption on AA for a party of 5 for destnations that I want to go to would take me a very very long time.....

Pooling enables me to to take my redemptions much more frequently.

Mind you if Amex keeps giving out 10 onus point deals that may change. Unfortunately though I think bonuses of that magnitude will be rare...

 

[Dave Noble]

For flights bought: They are mainly discount QF domestic which would often get zero AA points but which earn 1000 QF points. The 1000 minimum is a very good earn rate for short haul domestic.

I don't see why that would be the case. It is only the N class ( the expensive of the 2 ) red-e-deals which is ineligable; the sale fares and the cheapest normal red-e-deals are in O class which is eligable for miles. All the supersaver and above fares are eligable for miles

On AA the minimum earning for a basic member is 500 whilst a gold will earn 625 and a Platinum or higher earns the same as crediting to Qf atr 1000

I also sometimes stay at hotels which give me some points direct QF.

Many chains also credit to AA

AA can be v beneficial for those with companies that have economy travel policies but do have decent discounts on fares such as B . With B international , QF treats them for status credits no better than someone on the cheapest Q fare whilst with AA they earn towards status as well as a Business class traveller

To me, Qantas seems to be trying to target at frequent debtors than frequent flyers

Dave

 

[vt01]

I though about this a great deal before switching from QF to AA. What really got me to switch were the enhancements and fuel fines on FF tickets and no bstatus bonus miles on airlines like CX. So I thought I'd try AA for a while. If I don't like it, I can always switch back. When I switched, I was QF WP so 100% status bonus.

I switched over on an LAX-SYD AA Platinum challenge which enabled me to get almost the same level of benefits as I already had without losing any points during the switch over. So now I am AA plat (oneworld sapphire) and still get the 100% status bonus so no drop in point earning.

I booked FF tickets on AA for my daughter on a SYD-PER J class return. It cost 30000 points and about $30 in fuel fines. I booked exactly the same flights for my wife using QF points which cost 72000 points and $100 in fuel fines! This reinforced my decision as correct.

I don't do much credit card spend so I don't lose much there. In fact, the last time I accrued points, I traded them for cash rather then send them to my QF FF account.

What will I lose?
It is harder to reach AA Executive platinum (oneworld emerald) for me which gives access to FCL. However thanks to the very good people on this forum guesting me in, I have not missed out so far.
I don't have any points for upgrades on QF flights.
My QF status will eventually drop to PS as I am LTS.. I would liked to have reached LTG like NM before switching but it would've taken too long (4 - 5 years).
Once I drop down from QF SG to QF PS I will no longer get free access to Admiral's lounges when travelling domestically in the US. But as I don't do a lot of travel there, this shouldn't be an issue. I will still however have free access to QP's because of my oneworld sapphire status.

You will see a number of threads and posts around this question. And it really is horses for courses... For me, I'm still glad I made the switch..
Interesting that when I switched over, it didn't cost many any points because of the way the AA Plat challenge works. However, If I ever do choose to switch back to QF to get to WP again, it will cost me in status bonus until I achieve SG and WP..

 

[Dave Noble]

I booked FF tickets on AA for my daughter on a SYD-PER J class return. It cost 30000 points and about $30 in fuel fines. I booked exactly the same flights for my wife using QF points which cost 72000 points and $100 in fuel fines! This reinforced my decision as correct.

The $30 that AA charged was for actual taxes rather than fuel fines. With QF , they charge the $30 genuine taxes with the difference being the fines

If you had had to go via somewhere enroute, e.g. SYD-MEL-PER-MEL-SYD rather than non stop then you would have see the difference get even larger with QF wanting approx $170 vs $30

Dave

 

[drron]

Welcome streety.I think it is great that you are starting of now.you will have plenty of time to capitalise on all you learn here.
As has always been said the best FF program for someone depends on your personal circumstances.Basically though I joined AA by default.We first began doing longhaul flights in J in 1995.I had joined up the QP as a life member and my wife was a life member of Golden Wings.Fortunately what you pay to join up now is what we paid for life memberships.Between then and late 2001 I had been able to get 5 return J awards to the USA.Only one was on QF.When paying we flew QF.Never an upgrade though only made gold 1 year.
With the collapse of Ansett in 2001 we made the decision to switch to JAL for our flights to the USA-Simple as it was $5000 cheaper than QF,$2000 cheaper than a circle pacific fare in J and JAL already had their flat seats in J across the pacific.I didnt like the JL program,Couldnt then get QF points on JL across the pacific so joined AAdvantage.
Then in 200 I was able to redeem 2 business round the world awards on QF just before the scheme was enhanced.I had to settle for 2 economy sectors including QF from JFK-LAX.Well it took 2 hours on the phone,the agent wouldnt take my suggestions of alternate sectors when I had looked up availability.Finally out of JFK there were 7 people in business total.
# months later I booked 2 return business awards on AA.BNE-SEA.The call took 30 minutes,the agent without asking looked up alternate sectors and was in business the whole way within a couple of days of preferred dates.Then on the sector NRT-LAX on AA we were upgraded to F.This was with no status at all with AA as JL were not in OW then.
So in 2007 did the plat challenge and then made explat.As plat got upgraded to F on a CX sector and also as plat now get my seating preferences on QF whereas before I was usually seated with the unaccompanied kids at the back.So a no brainer to me.
But.It is actually harder to make top tier on AA than QF.My travel is international longhaul in J so opportunities to use AA and get upgrades.Also i do more domestic US flying than aussie domestic on QF mainly as they dont fly where I go.As well all miles I earn go towards lifetime status eg hotels and CCs.I use a diners with 1.5 points per dollar spend and i can therefore get 0.9375 AA miles per $A spend.Not many are in this situation.
If flying mainly on QF then probably AA is not for you.However you can join up AAdvantage for free and if you credit to it every 18 months you dont lose any miles you have.Who knows one day you will get that job that gets you travelling to or even working in the states and the whole ball game changes.
Just remember life is not a dress rehearsal.

 

[futaris]

For inter/intra Australia/New Zealand awards, AA redemptions easily win at 20K miles / per person, return.

Also, as most people have mentioned, Lifetime Status on AA, via 1MM or 2MM via any sources is a lot easier. There are some people on flyertalk that have earned lifetime status through the AAdvantage Dining program. Any points that you transfer into QF will not count towards to your lifetime status, since it is SC based on QF.

Also, if you are doing a lot of 10SCs discount-economy runs on QF, then it is easier to earn EXP on AA than Platinum on QF. 100 segments will get you EXP on AA, vs 140 to qualify on QF (1,400SCs), or 120 to requalify on QF (1,200SCs).

 

[lovetravellingoz]

To me, Qantas seems to be trying to target at frequent debtors than frequent flyers

Dave

While I am no defender of all things QF....I am not sure I follow the logic of this comment when comparing AA and QF.

With AA one can buy status without ever paying for a flight.

One guy...the Pudding Guy even gained lifetime status just from buying puddings for not much cost at all

With QF status only comes from paying for flights which you take. So in this way it could be said that AA is more CC orientated than Qantas.


If I was living in the USA there are many many ways of getting AA points. Credit Card sign on bonuses abound.

However I do not live in the USA.....and am not eligible for USA Credit cards which also locks me out of various second tier ways of getting AA points.

On a similar basis....if I was living in the USA I would most likely not find the QF that attractive (though admittedly yes the AA burn rates are better too, and no fuel fines).


Surely QF, with these extra bonus deals from other companies, is just following what is common practice with other airline programs and in particular USA ones such as AA?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Many chains also credit to AA

Yes I understand that...but my meaning of " I also sometimes stay at hotels which give me some points direct QF" was intended to be different.

By way of clarification in my situation when I travel for work the hotels I stay at normally give me my room at no cost due to the nature of what I do, but sometimes I have to pay and so the sometimes when I pay I can earn points. Mainly I get my stays for free.

This means that my hotel earn cannot be large irrespective of what airline or hotel program I belong to or how many nights I stay in a year.

I know that I could put this points into AA or the hotels own program where applicable, but at this stage I choose to pool all my non- (Maximiser or Citibank points) with QF so as to get a pool large enough for 5 flights. I cannot presently achieve this with AA. I keep the Maximiser and Citibank ppints there until they are needed....for rules and situations can change. The Maximiser points may well end up going to Virgin Atlantic...and in particular if there are more of the ilk of the 10 Bous Points Electrical Store Promotions coming.....


The reason for my post to the OP was to highlight that while the AA deal is very good for many, that for some including myself it does not achieve the optimum solution.



I am however not wedded to QF....and will easily change to another program (I have actually joined AA a while back) or rather will steer my points there if either program criteri change, or my personal circumstances change.

I was once a Platinum Status Member with Ansett as I used to fly fortnightly, but apart from them going out of business I also changed career 3 years back to radically reduce my work travel.

I am however addicted to travel for leisure.

 

[NM]

With AA one can buy status without ever paying for a flight.

Only lifetime status can be obtained through non-flying activities. Regular annual status levels can only achieved through flying (earning EQP, EQM or sectors flown).

Also note there are very few (if any) ways to earn more than 1 mile per US$ spent on cards. In Australia, its quite common for us to be earning 1.5 (or more) points per A$ spent. The potential points earning rate for frequent spending is considerably higher with QFF than it is with any of the US-based airlines.

So this just goes to show that the programs are different. I draw no conclusion from this as to which may be considered better. That depends on each person's individual circumstances and goal from the FF program. I am lucky to be able to leverage the best parts of AA and QF, but not everyone is able to do that.

 

[vt01]

Another consideration which I just came across is that from 1 March 2008, BA flights will no longer accrue bonus miles see this thread. This was one of the reasons I left QFF in favour of AA. QFF doesn't accrue bonus miles on CX flights.

This now means if you are travelling on a BA flight, you need to book a codeshare flight number of an airline that still allows you to to get those bonus miles.

Just means a bit more planning a research!

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I think the change illustrates why to many of us that risk is a factor in how we earn and burn points.

I was lucky enough to redeem 500,000 (mainly gained by flying) points with Ansett two weeks before they collapsed. Even luckier that I redeemed for 5 tickets to Cairo return with a stop off at Singapore on the way back with Singapore Airlines who honored the redemption despite it providing the flight many months after Ansett ceased.

However my Platinum status was stripped from me as of Jan 1....and so while I had access to flight lounges etc on the way to Cairo, I lost it on the way back.

Apart from losing my Status, I only lost a few thousand points. Many of my mates lost up to several million points though.

This experience colored my thinking of points with respect to risk as the world is now a very fluid place. Not necessarily just for airlines going belly up, but also that over time that FF program changes are likely (both positive and negative).

So me time to gain the rewards I want is a very important factor, and as I want 5 tickets at once it means that the ability to pool is very important to me.

So for eaxmple I am not willing to alternate redemptions by building 5 tickets on AA and Qantas at the same time for consecutive alternating redemptions.

Now if like others my redemption paterns where diffferent then a mix and match approach could work well. But as I am after lumpy big redemptions it makes better sense for me in terms of earn and burn as well as risk management to not use AA at present. But yes I am keeping my options open.

My risk management also means that I do not pool the points till I have to and leave them in their earning source as long as I can.

This minimises;
* risk of losing them,
* maximises my ability to take advantage of any points transferring or redemption specials
* keeps points handy if other FF programs besides Qantas become attractive (nad as not early I am eying of a Virgin Atlantic redemption)..or Qantas becomes less attractive.

The OP may wish to conisder his attitutude to risk and how this influences his earn and burn and whether it makes adifference to which FF program he credits.

 

[thegurio]

Slightly OT but still relevant i guess...

I am going for silver this year on QFF - would it be easier to do it with AA rather than QFF as almost all of my travel is donestic and mostly between HBA and ADL.

 

[futaris]

Probably easier on QF, as minimum 15SCs on a HBA-ADL flight. If you're earning 10SCs/flight, might be easier on AA.

Also, I don't think there is much advantage to AA at OW Ruby. At least with QF you will get a QF Club pass...

 

[Dave Noble]

Slightly OT but still relevant i guess...

I am going for silver this year on QFF - would it be easier to do it with AA rather than QFF as almost all of my travel is donestic and mostly between HBA and ADL.

How many trips do you make?

All the flights between HBA and ADL seem require a change at MEL, so would earn 2000 QF points each way regardless of status . This would earn 40SCs or 80SCs per trip depending on the booking class

You would need , therefore, 8.75 trips on discount economy and 4.375 trips if on K or higher

On AA, you would earn 1000 points each way. You would need 7.5 trips to attain Gold status

If you are doing discount fares, then you can get AA GLD and PLT more easily than on QFF

As far as redemptions go, if looking to redeem domestically then AA would have the better redemption

As a AA Base member, it would take 17.5 trips to earn a r/t award to anywhere in AU or NZ in business with no Fuel fines to pay. It takes 10 trips to earn enough for an economy ticket

Once Gold it will take 14 trips to earn one business ( with the 625 mile each way earning ) and 8 for economy

if you attain Platinum , it will drop to 8.75 trips for a business ticket and 4.375 for economy

As a QF member, the cost would be dependant on destination

If doing HBA-MEL, that would be 16k/32k points r/t in Y/J and HBA-SYD would be 24k/48k points so would require 8 trips or 12 trips to earn the miles for business or 4 and 6 for economy. There would be , of course, $77 in fuel fines fines

If wanting to travel most other places on QF, it will require 2 sectors each way so would have $154 in fuel fines to pay on the miles and to most destinations it would cost 36k in economy and 72k points for business. This equates to 9 trips for economy or 16 trips for business

Even as a base member on AA 10/17.5 trips to earn a reward vs 9/16 on Qantas (other than HBA-SYD/MEL), AA to me comes out ahead thanks to the $154 fuel fine saving and as a Gold member, the 8/14 beats the 9/16 outright

Using just HBA-ADL as the earning route, AA seems to come out ahead over QF I would say and if travelling on lower fares ( just avoid N class ) , you would earn status more quickly with AA than QF

Dave

 

[thegurio]

Always HBA-MEL-ADL as i have to pay for them out of my pocket and they are always the cheapest.

i only earn 20 per way but then again i only fly disc econ (or whY) i believe its called. I usually take about 10 - 12 trips a year and the only way i can get silver this year is coz we went to Europe right when my new year started so i got all the SC's from that.

 

[Dave Noble]

Always HBA-MEL-ADL as i have to pay for them out of my pocket and they are always the cheapest.

i only earn 20 per way but then again i only fly disc econ (or whY) i believe its called. I usually take about 10 - 12 trips a year and the only way i can get silver this year is coz we went to Europe right when my new year started so i got all the SC's from that.

With discount economy earning, then AA GLD will be easier to attain than QF Silver and , if you are looking at redemptions within Oz, your redemption rate is better too

Dave