Why would one become an AA member?

[NM]

Its also interesting to compare the two FF programs' OneWorld awards. They may look similar at first glace, but there are some big differences:

1. QF measures the mileage per sector towards the total miles permitted, so an indirect routing between stopovers eats up more miles. AA measures mileage as the direct distance between stopover points. This can be a big saver and result in an AA OneWorld award being measured considerably less miles than a QF OneWorld award on the same routing.

2. Max mileage on QF is 35,000 miles while on AA its 50,000 miles.

3. No fuel fines on AA award, saving anywhere from a few to many hundreds of dollars.

4. AA OneWorld Award can include Jetstar flights of desired, QF OneWorld award cannot.

5. QF limits to 5 stopovers. AA has no limit to the number of stopovers. Note that each airline's definition of a stopover is different. QF is next-day for AU domestic and 24 hours for international. AA is 4 hours US domestic and 6 hours international.

6. QF allows multiple Open-Jaws in the itinerary, AA only allows one. But as AA does not have a stopover restriction, the need to include open-jaws is greatly reduced.

7. The only time QF OneWorld Award costs less points/miles than on AA is if the total itinerary distance is between 4001 and 4800 miles in economy. At all other points up to 35,000 miles, AA costs the same or less points/miles for a Y OneWorld award. Of course the requirements different is really significant of booking J or F awards. The biggest differential in favour of AA is around the 20,000 miles mar, which could work for some USA and Europe return trips, but is not going to make an ATW itinerary. An ATW itinerary will start at 120,000 AA miles or 142,500 QF FF points.

So for someone looking to burn on OneWorld awards, the earn rate on QF would need to be somewhat better than on AA to compensate for the worse burn rate, fuel fines to be paid, and reduced flexibility (routing, stopovers etc) to make up the difference. For some people the QF earn rate will be higher, so some people it will not.

 

[futaris]

Don't forget that an AA oneworld award doesn't have to return to the point of origin.

Members may fly up to 16 segments and may stop in each city once, but may not connect in the same city more than twice. Passengers may not stopover or connect in the city where travel originated. See complete http://www.aa.com/content/disclaimers/oneworld_rules.jhtml

Also, only one open jaw is allowed, anywhere in the itinerary.

 

[Dave Noble]

Don't forget that an AA oneworld award doesn't have to return to the point of origin.

Members may fly up to 16 segments and may stop in each city once, but may not connect in the same city more than twice. Passengers may not stopover or connect in the city where travel originated. See complete http://www.aa.com/content/disclaimers/oneworld_rules.jhtml

Also, only one open jaw is allowed, anywhere in the itinerary.

Do be aware that if you have an endpoint other than the origin, that this will count as the permitted open jaw

Dave

 

[dajop]

4. AA OneWorld Award can include Jetstar flights of desired, QF OneWorld award cannot.

Didn't realise this, but it really sux, given that Jetstar is a QF subsidiary.

 

[NM]

Didn't realise this, but it really sux, given that Jetstar is a QF subsidiary.

Indeed. But does mean AA members can get to places where JQ operates and QF either does not or has no award availability.

 

[serfty]

Indeed. But does mean AA members can get to places where JQ operates and QF either does not or has no award availability.

There is no mention of JQ in the AAdvantage affiliates page:

• oneworld Affiliate Carriers

By JQ I presume this mean award availability using QF flight numbers on JQ metal.

If this is the case then AAdvantage members have access to these QF award buckets, just like QFF can, just that QFF members cannot use these flights as part of a QFF "oneworld" award. However, QFF members can still access these JQ metal flights as part of a QFF "Qantas/Partner" award.

So, in realilty, AA members cannot get to places where JQ operates and QF either does not or has no award availability as they be booking from the same fare buckets.

 

[JohnK]

NB, re: Car Rentals I don't think there is a big difference for most people, unless you do a lot of short one-two day rentals overseas.

Doing 3-4 day rentals in Australia can get accumulate FF points quickly. Add on the current bonus points offer of 1,000 QFF points from Avis and another recent 1,001 bonus QFF points from Thrifty and they do really add up.

Generally you only get 700 points per rental overseas, or 3* points per AU$ on QF.

Structure a rental in such a way and you could receive multiple 700 QFF points for a one week trip.

People underestimate hotel stays. Most are 3 QFF points per dollar but there are bonuses on offer as well. They do add up.

Qantas holidays is another I did not mention earlier. I booked 2 short trips in September for around $350 per trip and with the 1,000 minimum QFF for each flight, 10,000 QFF points bonus, plus 350 QFF points from Qantas holidays, plus credit card points it worked out to around 13,000 QFF points for each booking.

And the most important of the lot is the generous transfer of MR points to QFF program.

There is no doubt that AA is a good value FF program but very difficult to compare to QF when you start to add up all the offers.

Members may fly up to 16 segments and may stop in each city once, but may not connect in the same city more than twice.

Even a QF Oneworld RTW award is not too bad. OK may not be great but still OK.

I was able to have a stopover + 2 transits in LHR and a stopover and transit in HEL.

 

[futaris]

For me, earning in AA where possible is a much better thing, since points count towards lifetime status.

Even 60 points on a single day car rental is 0.006% of lifetime status. 700 points in QF is still 0 SCs, and 0% towards lifetime status.

Plus, you can transfer points from heaps of programs on points.com into AA, earn points through Club Live, and AAdvantage Dining, etc.

I'm probably not going to churn MR points into AA, but rather leave them in MR till I plan on using them. I'm certainly not going to try to put extra points into QF, especially when the next round of enhancements haven't been announced yet. I remember when QF used to earn in KM, and there were Tier Credits.

Over the last ten years, the value of the QF program has been reduced significantly. I don't think the same thing has happened to the AA program, particularly as it is one of the first Frequent Flyer programs

I am "loyal" to QF, but not to the point where it costs me a lot more than travelling on another airline, or where a car rental or hotel stay (that earns QF points) is significantly more than another. You have to figure out what the value of the points, etc is really. Should you just save the cash (difference), and put it in a bank account?

The other big factor, is that business and first on AA isn't a big premium over economy. Even Premium Economy is 50% more on QF than economy, whereas on AA, Business is only 30-75% more (depending on region).

 

[Dave Noble]

Over the last ten years, the value of the QF program has been reduced significantly. I don't think the same thing has happened to the AA program, particularly as it is one of the first Frequent Flyer programs
.

There have been some small reductions to the AA scheme plus the introduction of a co-pay for upgrades from discount economy on international services however there has been nothing like, imo, the destruction of benefits of the QF scheme

back in 2000, the QF scheme had some great value awards; even when they changed in 2001 to to earning 1 point per 1.609km flown the scheme was still not bad and upgrades were reasonably priced

Since then, the points requirements have gone mad ( possibly I suspect to the current credit card point giveaway frenzy ) and then the introduction of fuel fines

AA has competition against other carriers whilst QF has had little competition

Dave

 

[serfty]

I'm sure we'll all be able to Qantify (sic ) this better once QF publish their mooted changes shortly.

 

[NM]

There is no mention of JQ in the AAdvantage affiliates page:

• oneworld Affiliate Carriers

By JQ I presume this mean award availability using QF flight numbers on JQ metal.

That is because JQ is not a OneWorld affiliate. But it is listed in the AAdvantage OneWorld Award rules page here.

If this is the case then AAdvantage members have access to these QF award buckets, just like QFF can, just that QFF members cannot use these flights as part of a QFF "oneworld" award. However, QFF members can still access these JQ metal flights as part of a QFF "Qantas/Partner" award.

So, in realilty, AA members cannot get to places where JQ operates and QF either does not or has no award availability as they be booking from the same fare buckets.

QF FF members CANNOT use JQ operated flights (even with QF flight number) for the QF FF OneWorld Award. AAdvantage members CAN use JQ flights (don't know if QF or JQ number) for AAdvantage OneWorld Awards.

My comment was specific to the differences between each program's OneWorld Awards.

 

[vt01]

Thanks JohnK for some very good points. I'm sure you've stated these in the past but this time it really made sense to me.

Because work pays for most of my travel I don't have to consider the cost. This is really a big consideration. If you're paying for your own travel there is certainly many other factors in choosing the right program for you. As cost is not really a concern for me, burn rate and fuel fines are the most important consideration for me. Also, most of my travel is overseas and not many short haul Aus travel so again the earn rate is somewhat similar for me no matter which program I choose (at least I think it is). I think I was able to reach AA plat and get the 100% bonus miles but I don't think the same travel pattern would've got me to QF plat. This was manily because much of my travel came after my QF membership year ended in August but it was was still in the AA membership year.

Anyhow, I'm going back to QF because my travel patterns have changed and I hope to get LTG in a couple of years. Then I'll probably switch back to AA.. I really don't know yet...

 

[serfty]

... My comment was specific to the differences between each program's OneWorld Awards.

This be true, my post's conclusion was in relation to this:

... But does mean AA members can get to places where JQ operates and QF either does not or has no award availability.

I do not find it conceivable that a QFF member is not able to book the same JQ flight that an AAdvantage member may do, even if they need to use a "Qantas/Partner" ward rather than a "oneworld" award.

 

[NM]

This be true, my post's conclusion was in relation to this:

I do not find it conceivable that a QFF member is not able to book the same JQ flight that an AAdvantage member may do, even if they need to use a "Qantas/Partner" ward rather than a "oneworld" award.

When I wrote that, I was thinking of a destination such as Hobart that is served by both QF and JQ. It is possible an AAdvantage member could get to Hobart using JQ as part of a greater AAdvantage OneWorld award, while a QF FF member could not get there as part of a QFF OneWorld award. I apologise if there is a gap between what I typed and what I thought (often the case, I know :shock: ).

 

[JohnK]

I am "loyal" to QF, but not to the point where it costs me a lot more than travelling on another airline, or where a car rental or hotel stay (that earns QF points) is significantly more than another. You have to figure out what the value of the points, etc is really. Should you just save the cash (difference), and put it in a bank account?

I don't disagree with you but lifetime status to me in any FF program means "squat". Am I allowed to use that word here? Lifetime status can change so quickly that it is irrelevant in my calculations.

One of the QF holidays bookings I mentioned was for the FT AGM in February where I will meet people I have met before and hopefully many new people along the way. The cost is $350 staying at the Mercure, with around 13,000 QFF points, 20 SCs, preferential seating and meals on board. Now to put into perspective 13,000 QFF points is ~9% toward a Oneworld RTW award.

Yes I could have gone with DJ, JQ, TT specials but I would have still needed accommodation, meals and I don't think I could have done it for too much less. Anyway to each their own.

 

[futaris]

One of the QF holidays bookings I mentioned was for the FT AGM in February where I will meet people I have met before and hopefully many new people along the way.

Part of the fun of AFF and FT is sharing the wealth and knowledge as well as meeting people. e.g. ZQN PointsBreak deals, etc.

Agreed for your situation, QF is the clear winner. As you are SYD based, QF is pretty much always the winner... JQ isn't much fun, and DJ are the only other decent domestic airline to fly there.

It seems that are the new LCCs are targeting MEL/AVV and OOL, so others in Australia do have some choice that isn't necessarily swayed by "loyalty" or other factors.

Besides I think there are some new segments of frequent flyers being created by these LCCs, e.g. this thread. I doubt that a student who travels around Australia for $160 is going to care about frequent flyer benefits, when that trip wouldn't even have earnt them QF Silver even if they had booked at QF prices.

Some people prefer to fly to Europe on a $1100 fare on Brunei and do 3 stops each way. Others want the timed saved, and their benefits etc.
Even you are considering a LCC run from BKK. And for others, work is paying and they just want more benefits.

But as you say, each to their own... And I think I'm taking this thread OT too much.

 

[futaris]

I don't disagree with you but lifetime status to me in any FF program means "squat". Am I allowed to use that word here? Lifetime status can change so quickly that it is irrelevant in my calculations.

I'm still relatively young, so lifetime status may mean more to me. NB, 10 years ago the cost of Qantas Club Life membership was almost the same as the now current yearly membership fee.

The only reason I mention lifetime status, is that on AA you can pretty much still buy it, and use the points that you bought for some OW awards in business/first. Not to mention that it would probably end up costing less than buying the flights in the first place. This even rings true for some economy awards.

Heck, you can even just buy 100% of the points for an award on AA, and use them. For QF, you can only buy 15% of the points needed for an award.

Sometimes buying and using points can be cheaper than buying outright. SPG's anytime awards or PC's 5k pointbreaks are a good example of this.