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Why QF and LATAM have seat selection issues on their codeshares

juddles

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Slightly off topic, but when I travelled that way in 2012 (paying for flights - not points), there was a good reason to book via LATAM for the transpac sectors even if I wanted to travel on QF metal.

I wanted to wander around South America extensively visiting 6 countries and flew 16 sectors.

I was told by the TA - if you book via QF for QF metal, a LAN South America Pass for within-continent flights were double the cost of booking the other way round - book via LA on a code share for QF metal over the pacific.
It comes down to what you want. QF penalize those who book via LATAM when it comes to SC - which is perfectly understandable.
 

p--and--t

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It comes down to what you want. QF penalize those who book via LATAM when it comes to SC - which is perfectly understandable.
Agreed, but I was on holiday and paying for the flights myself as a no-status bronze and a saving a few hundred bucks to spend on other expenses on tour, travelling the exact same route on the same planes was important for me.

If the flights were being paid for on a business account or I was chasing LTG etc, would have been a different story.
 

juddles

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Agreed, but I was on holiday and paying for the flights myself as a no-status bronze and a saving a few hundred bucks to spend on other expenses on tour, travelling the exact same route on the same planes was important for me.

If the flights were being paid for on a business account or I was chasing LTG etc, would have been a different story.
I agree completely. My travel costs are mine, and so I am always trying to save a buck. This was the reason I got started in AFF - finding ways to economize but travel better than I could afford. I used to cross to Sth America mainly on LATAM ticks, but these days Qantas usually is cheaper with their frequent sales.
 

juddles

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Now as at T-22hrs, the Qantas seatmap now shows the whole plane, but the Latam version is still showing the partial seatmap of the old aircraft:

qf27 availability t-22.jpg

la806  t - 22hrs.jpg
 

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juddles

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The following is the seat availability as per ef for this flight (again, as at T-22hrs):

Qantas: qf27 availability t-22.jpg




Latam: la806 availability t-22.png

I find this very interesting - let me explain further.....

At this point QF only have 4 seats available in business class. I double checked this by attempting a dummy booking - it will sell me 4 seats, but if I try for 5, it only offers flights via LAX. Latam have at the very least 7 seats still available in business for this flight. (their max number shown is always 7, not 9 - I think this comes from their website where you can only book max of 7 pax online) So this means that right up to the end, Latam controls sales for their allocation of seats, so they will be empty, even if QF had customers wanting these. I suspect this is the reason I don't think I have ever failed to get a points upgrade at the gate from PE to J on this route when I have asked for same :)

On QF's current full seat map, there are seats showing as filled which were not in QF's first seatmaps - ie seats that were "allocated" to Latam (rows 6 and 7 seats J/K for example). This suggests to me that either some Latam pax have been moved to these, or worse, that QF pax have (since T-24hrs) been able to select these seats. So any seat selection attempted by Latam pax is useless.
 

Flying mermaid

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Thats what I thought; I've recommended they try for the first couple of rows - still open on EF.

Its their first long haul J, so hopefully if they get inclined beds it wont be too much of a horror!
you basically have no idea until the day. :). We were booked in J and had the upstairs exit row for 4 of us with the mark 2 flat beds. Had them for a year. When we checked in on the day they had subbed the plane with the old mark 1 seats. Mr FM and I had at least retained the exit row, but Ms FM and husband had been moved forward a row (all on same booking). The plane was falling to pieces and the old inclined seats. Truly horrible (although good service to make up for it). I am pretty sure that plane is being put out of its misery.

Coming back from Santiago we retained our 4 exit row mark 2 flat beds, although had terrible service :)

I would have preferred the nose in order to avoid the problem with mark 1 seats, but I couldn’t choose 4 seats in the nose, probably due to some being allocated to Latam.
 
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JohnM

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All these matters are strangely abstract to someone who is also going to SCL very soon... - but using QF points for EK J ;):D:p.
 

madrooster

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On QF's current full seat map, there are seats showing as filled which were not in QF's first seatmaps - ie seats that were "allocated" to Latam (rows 6 and 7 seats J/K for example). This suggests to me that either some Latam pax have been moved to these, or worse, that QF pax have (since T-24hrs) been able to select these seats. So any seat selection attempted by Latam pax is useless.
This is when the two maps get merged in departure control so all pax can see the seats and select them accordingly, if no one from the LA block has selected them.

Rows 6 and 7 are not in the LA block. The LA block only contains parts of rows 11, 17, 18, 23, 24, 25, 26.

LA*QF mostly sticks fine for every PNR I've had such a segment. The trick is it must be booked in Amadeus
 

juddles

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Rows 6 and 7 are not in the LA block. The LA block only contains parts of rows 11, 17, 18, 23, 24, 25, 26....
If this is the case why do parts of rows 6 and 7 not appear in the QF seatmaps before T-24hrs? (and rows 2, 3, 8)
 

madrooster

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If this is the case why do parts of rows 6 and 7 not appear in the QF seatmaps before T-24hrs? (and rows 2, 3, 8)
LA's seat map row numbers don't align with QF's. You'll notice this if you compare the maps side by side - 11A/11B exists on both for example.

My suspicion is:

LA's 11A/11B is QF's 11J/11K
LA's 17A/17B/17J/17K is QF's 15A/15B/15J/15K
LA's 23J/23K is QF's 2J/2K
LA's 24J/24K is QF's 3J/3K
LA's 25J/25K is QF's 6J/6K
LA's 26J/26K is QF's 7J/7K
LA's 25D/25E/25F is QF's 7D/7E/7F
LA's 26D/26E/26F is QF's 8D/8E/8F

This leaves QF's 3E/3F missing from both maps. Probably to deal with oversells on either side?
 

juddles

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LA's seat map row numbers don't align with QF's. You'll notice this if you compare the maps side by side - 11A/11B exists on both for example.

My suspicion is:

LA's 11A/11B is QF's 11J/11K
LA's 17A/17B/17J/17K is QF's 15A/15B/15J/15K
LA's 23J/23K is QF's 2J/2K
LA's 24J/24K is QF's 3J/3K
LA's 25J/25K is QF's 6J/6K
LA's 26J/26K is QF's 7J/7K
LA's 25D/25E/25F is QF's 7D/7E/7F
LA's 26D/26E/26F is QF's 8D/8E/8F

This leaves QF's 3E/3F missing from both maps. Probably to deal with oversells on either side?
Have another squizz at my opening posts - it is actually that the half that QF has is correct, but the half LATAM have is on an incorrect seatmap - ie the older 747 seatmap......
 

madrooster

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Have another squizz at my opening posts - it is actually that the half that QF has is correct, but the half LATAM have is on an incorrect seatmap - ie the older 747 seatmap......
It still doesn't explain the 2 11A/11B's.
 

justinbrett

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I’m flying LA800 as QF321 (AKL-SCL) on 07 June. LA’s seat map shows J as either all occupied or blocked, bar one seat. QF’s seat map only rows row 3 and 4, all vacant apart from mine (with one random seat in 2 blocked - the rest of the row doesn’t appear).

LA manage my booking says I don’t have a seat (QF PNR and QF flight number on LA metal). QF page shows my seat. Seat was requested via phone to QF.

Completely unsure if I have a seat or not. At this point I’d be happy not to be downgraded!
 

juddles

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I’m flying LA800 as QF321 (AKL-SCL) on 07 June. LA’s seat map shows J as either all occupied or blocked, bar one seat. QF’s seat map only rows row 3 and 4, all vacant apart from mine (with one random seat in 2 blocked - the rest of the row doesn’t appear).

LA manage my booking says I don’t have a seat (QF PNR and QF flight number on LA metal). QF page shows my seat. Seat was requested via phone to QF.

Completely unsure if I have a seat or not. At this point I’d be happy not to be downgraded!
I know from bitter experience that with a LATAM ticket but flying QF metal it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a seat to stick, but I think that when I used to do it the other way (QF ticket/LATAM metal) I could phone LATAM and get them to get the seat selection into their system. Worth a try, even if it is just to enjoy phoning a foreign-language call-centre :)

I doubt downgrading is a serious threat, if you are just flying to SCL. But if you are transitting SCL onto another international LATAM flight I would be careful - if you are, even if you get the onwards SCL-whereever boarding pass issued, make sure when you get to SCL (if you have the time) to find the LATAM counters airside and check with them everything is ok. These counters are where the airside QF counters are too - they are on the level you get off a plane, just before you go through a mini-airside security check before going up an escalator to the main departure areas. If you have already gone up into the departure area, you need to find the huge lift that can take you back to that mid-level - there are no escalators or stairs to get back down.
 

madrooster

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I think that when I used to do it the other way (QF ticket/LATAM metal) I could phone LATAM and get them to get the seat selection into their system. Worth a try, even if it is just to enjoy phoning a foreign-language call-centre :)
QF operated by LA for the transpacific needs to be done by QF and only on QF's side as it's a hard block codeshare so if you were sold as QF, you need to be seated in QF's allocation of seats/seat map. It's better to call QF for seat selection as Amadeus controls the seat selection until departure control takes over which it is then passed over to Sabre.

The same applies for LA operated by QF. You need to be allocated from LA's allocation of seats/seat map. For LA operated by QF, it's better to call QF to do that seat selection due to the way the codeshare is setup in Amadeus.
 

juddles

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QF operated by LA for the transpacific needs to be done by QF and only on QF's side as it's a hard block codeshare so if you were sold as QF, you need to be seated in QF's allocation of seats/seat map. It's better to call QF for seat selection as Amadeus controls the seat selection until departure control takes over which it is then passed over to Sabre.

The same applies for LA operated by QF. You need to be allocated from LA's allocation of seats/seat map. For LA operated by QF, it's better to call QF to do that seat selection due to the way the codeshare is setup in Amadeus.
madrooster, I have enormous respect for you and your knowledge, but I think this whole QF/LATAM thing is very murky and what should tecnically work, simply never has for me. Multiple times when travelling QF metal but on a ticket purchased through LATAM, the seat selection would not stick. And multiple times I called both airlines (was top status with LATAM and P1 with QF) and despite the best efforts of both airlines, my final seat allocation was always a lottery. I am not sure if it is a system issue, a staff knowledge issue, or a combination of both :) (Edit: but it would work the other way - LATAM metal/QF ticket/phoning LATAM)

For this and other reasons I ended up only buying QF through QF, and LATAM through LATAM, and now I have no issues.
 

madrooster

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I am not sure if it is a system issue, a staff knowledge issue, or a combination of both :)

For this and other reasons I ended up only buying QF through QF, and LATAM through LATAM, and now I have no issues.
It's hard to say in your case as I have no visibility of your PNRs in question. But I have dealt with LA operated by QF and QF operated by LA on a number of occasions with no issues, and that's both the hard block transpacific as well as the freesale local codeshares.

Codeshares aren't the easiest beasts to tame. But I generally don't encounter any issues overall with the ones that I choose to utilise. There are many codeshares that I refuse to touch - due to the way they are implemented, making things like seat selection not work at all. Eg. WS operated by anyone, anyone operated by IB, IB operated by any non-Amadeus single PNR carrier and others.
 

justinbrett

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I know from bitter experience that with a LATAM ticket but flying QF metal it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a seat to stick, but I think that when I used to do it the other way (QF ticket/LATAM metal) I could phone LATAM and get them to get the seat selection into their system. Worth a try, even if it is just to enjoy phoning a foreign-language call-centre :)

I doubt downgrading is a serious threat, if you are just flying to SCL. But if you are transitting SCL onto another international LATAM flight I would be careful - if you are, even if you get the onwards SCL-whereever boarding pass issued, make sure when you get to SCL (if you have the time) to find the LATAM counters airside and check with them everything is ok. These counters are where the airside QF counters are too - they are on the level you get off a plane, just before you go through a mini-airside security check before going up an escalator to the main departure areas. If you have already gone up into the departure area, you need to find the huge lift that can take you back to that mid-level - there are no escalators or stairs to get back down.
I am flying on to BOG but spending the weekend in SCL first. On the LA code to BOG and that seat has stuck.

I’ll give LA a call this week - don’t mind calling the foreign call centre, I’m learning Español so it’s good practice!

I’m only picking up the LA flight in AKL, flying QF metal to AKL in A330. Just after the SCs really.
 

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