Why is Domestic J so damned expensive????

[Rourke]

3.- Aust dom J product (other than the A330's which I have not flown) is still heaps better than some. For example, Lufthansa J class intra-Europe (so actually technically international J) is just a blocked middle seat on a ****ty little A320 - same seats, and even SAME PITCH!

Yep, experienced this first-hand. Luckily PRG-MUC is a short trip on Lufthansa. It was an op-up, got excited for about three minutes between counter and plane

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Depending on the aircraft used, intra-Europe business class gives you the whole double seat unit to yourself... preferable to having anyone sit next to you at all.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Depending on the aircraft used, intra-Europe business class gives you the whole double seat unit to yourself... preferable to having anyone sit next to you at all.

What European Business Class would you recommend? I was very unimpressed with the seats in BA Club Europe - just economy seats with the middle seat left empty. Food and service were fine and on short legs probably OK, but I found my legs were very stiff after IST-LHR and would like something a bit better, but most of my trawling through other carriers seemed to suggest they were flying exactly the same planes as BA with similar seats.

 

[cove]

Armed with a double status credit offer I booked Mrscove PER-SYD-LAX return on QF on their super saver special which uses all their old product. Well she gets 1040 status credits and the price was pretty good. Basically the domestic leg in J was about my favourite price which of course is zero.

 

[juddles]

Depending on the aircraft used, intra-Europe business class gives you the whole double seat unit to yourself... preferable to having anyone sit next to you at all.

Although I agree that not having anyone next to you is great, the price of the J ticket does not justify it - much cheaper to just buy a second economy seat. Because I am freakishly tall, legroom is a huge issue for me - and by far the best seats in the intra-Europe planes are those exit rows.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What European Business Class would you recommend? I was very unimpressed with the seats in BA Club Europe - just economy seats with the middle seat left empty. Food and service were fine and on short legs probably OK, but I found my legs were very stiff after IST-LHR and would like something a bit better, but most of my trawling through other carriers seemed to suggest they were flying exactly the same planes as BA with similar seats.

The majority of Euro-business is the same: 3+3 seat units will accommodate 2 pax with an empty middle. Pretty much all of them are going to 'slim-line' with 30' or so pitch (there may be some left that are slightly more).

On smaller regional jets, 2+2 economy seating accommodates just 1 passenger per double- unit, so you actually get plenty of space and privacy.

But the longest intra-European flights I do are around 30-60 minutes, so the product is ok.

The major exception to the rule is Turkish Airlines... several of their short-haul fleet is configured in 2+2 similar to Qantas/AA domestic business class. Example here: Trip Report: Turkish Airlines Business Class Istanbul to Frankfurt, Airbus A321 - Pursued Adventures This seating can be found on their 739s, A320s, A321s.

However - TK's 738s and 319s are the standard euro-business - so pays to check intended aircraft before booking.

There are also a number of 5th freedom flights (operated by GA, CA, LAN, SQ) which offer better business class, and also SU if you can be bothered to connect via Russia. Plus a couple airlines operate intercontinental aircraft on select departures between major cities (for example IB).

 

[Flying mermaid]

Thanks - useful info.

 

[jpk]

Most large corporates in Australia have contract rates with the airlines which are substantially discounted from the rack rates the public sees online. I've seen many of these private fares and the prices are quite surprising on some routes.

 

[Zerosignal]

We had Club Europe on BA between Rome and Gatwick the service was good, seats were ok but not what you would expect after an Australian domestic business class seat.

 

[Ansett]

Most large corporates in Australia have contract rates with the airlines which are substantially discounted from the rack rates the public sees online. I've seen many of these private fares and the prices are quite surprising on some routes.

They would have to be discounted by at least 50% IMHO

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Surely no sane person would pay these prices?

No way would I waste money on those prices.......but I have become a bit soft this year.

I have bought J with VA and bought it numerous times! The reason being, I found a sale (I think, or a code) where J CNS-BNE or VV was circa $419. I actually considered that to be OK for what you get and given that flight is about half the distance of MEL-PER, one could possibly assume that should price a worthwhile J transcon at about $900.

The thing that irks me a tad, is that this year I've not bought any -Y fares (except a few redemptions in Jan) and mine have all been either J or flexi and still I get absolutely no recognition for VA. A few nice little targeted incentives would go a long way to pleasing me, but no, nothing.

I've also occasionally bought suites at hotels but with both the airlines and the hotels, if I can't find a good deal, I don't pay for anything over base rate. This year, I'd suggest I haven't paid rack rate for any hotel or airline seat and that's the way it'll stay, but it also benefits the supplier as I'm buying the more expensive product. I'd say it works for both parties to my transactions!

 

[opusman]

A couple of years ago I bought MEL/ADL in J for $309 each way during a sale, which seemed good value.

 

[clazman]

Don't think corporate discounts are 50%, to my understanding y are red ticket pricing with flex capabilities and j are similar to sale prices.

We have a good pricing from QF but purchase tickets through our customers where they get better pricing.

 

[JohnK]

I mentioned this in another thread and may or may not be relevant to this discussion.

I have been commuting SYD-BNE for ~8 years at roughly the same time of the day travelling from SYD on a Sunday afternoon/evening returning on a Friday afternoon/evening. In that time on Qantas I can count on the one hand the number of times business class has not been full including many flights on a 767.

Since May this year there have been 4-5 flights where business class has not been full. The last one was Friday night BNE-SYD at 6:25pm and only 5 people in business class.

Make of it what you will but I feel it's a worrying trend. Something is not quite right. I also feel that economy airfares are also overly high. It feels as if the economy cabins are not as full as often.

....flying is my passion and I like to do it in comfort.....

Flying is also my passion. Quite happy to do it in the comfort of economy so there are no constraints on how often I can travel as I want to travel as often as possible.

 

[moa999]

fares have definitely crept up in past 12 months on Dom routes

 

[juddles]

....have been commuting SYD-BNE for ~8 years ......Since May this year there have been 4-5 flights where business class has not been full. The last one was Friday night BNE-SYD at 6:25pm and only 5 people in business class.....

JohnK, interesting "real" commentary. Hopefully QF are actually aware of such trends.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Flying is also my passion. Quite happy to do it in the comfort of economy so there are no constraints on how often I can travel as I want to travel as often as possible.

You are a lot younger than me - the older you get the more comfort and economy used together become an oxymoron. My kids are making the same choice as you - if they want to fly they have to do it in economy (except on the probably far too frequent occasions when I feel guilty and buy them J fares, or use my points to upgrade them....)

 

[jpk]

Make of it what you will but I feel it's a worrying trend. Something is not quite right. I also feel that economy airfares are also overly high. It feels as if the economy cabins are not as full as often.

I've also noticed this, since the price war ended fares have gone up a lot, flexies in particular. I sense that the overall yield on flights is better for the airlines than they were before however.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

Do they need to justify it? The days of the Prices Justification Tribunal are long behind us. These days, it's about what the market will bear. And if they can sell at those prices, then that's reason enough to do it....

And the bottom line is if you don't like it then don't buy it.....and by the way I agree it seems whacky but demand rules and I guess there are some "quackers" who ( or there Company does ) pays or else they would not be charging it.
Q What is the cost of something ??
A. Whatever the market will bear

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

You are a lot younger than me - the older you get the more comfort and economy used together become an oxymoron. My kids are making the same choice as you - if they want to fly they have to do it in economy (except on the probably far too frequent occasions when I feel guilty and buy them J fares, or use my points to upgrade them....)

And DAD I bet they are expert at making you feel that !
Let them suffer, it's good for their soul. !!!!!!