Why is Domestic J so damned expensive????

[Ansett]

Checking out airfares and I am amazed at how expensive domestic J is.

For example MEL-PER Return in September in J $3698.00 Return

Compare this to a similar distance and time

MEL-AKL in Fully Flex J $2063.00 Return

Now same route but a sale fare in J $1259.00

And now same Route but in FIRST $2642.00 Return In F Saver or $2942.00 Fully Flex still cheaper then MEL-RET in J with no guarantee of the new seats.

PER-AKL in Fully Flex J $3155.00 Return some $500.00 Cheaper than Just flying the PER - MEL Leg Go Figure!!!


Now lets look further afield.

MEL-SIN again in September in J Fully Flex $5482.00 Return
'
Now same route but a sale fare in J $2999.00 Return

MEL-SYD-CGK Return as low as $2131.00 return in Discount J Midweek only $700.00 more return than the MEL-SYD Sector of this flight


Now lets look even more locally.

MEL-SYD in J $1498.00 return $200.00 more expensive than a discounted MEL-AKL in J ???? I hour flight versus a 4 hour flight.

MEL-BNE in J $1918.00 return almost $700.00 dearer than discounted J MEL-AKL and $150.00 less than a fully flex in J MEL-AKL

MEL-CBR $1558.00 Return

CBR-SYD $1198.00 Return

MEL-BME $4998.00 Return with the dreaded ! on a lot saying your flight PER-BME will be in Y but at the same price as all being in J ?????

MEL-DWN $2580.00 ReturnCan still get to NZ cheaper on Fully Flex and half the price in discount J.

MEL-HBA $1378.00 Return on a 717

MEL-ASP $2930.00 Return on a direct 2 hour 55 minute flight.

I can not see any justification for the prices charged for domestic J based on the above.

Would appreciate other peoples thoughts on this.

Surely no sane person would pay these prices?

NOTE Not picking on QF here just easier to do the comparison with QF than VA. I would suggest VA would be no different.

 

[pauly7]

It's pretty easy.
Competition (and lack thereof).
Demand/Supply.

 

[woodborer]

Do they need to justify it? The days of the Prices Justification Tribunal are long behind us. These days, it's about what the market will bear. And if they can sell at those prices, then that's reason enough to do it....

 

[ozbeachbabe]

So who on AFF would even contemplate actually paying for a J transcon ticket?

It makes 36K in poibts look like a good deal as long as you can get "U" class seats.

Failing that, use points to upgrade an appropriate whY fare.

 

[stoneman]

I'm interested in this question, my thoughts exactly, cause I cant see what the big deal is with either airline - for that type of $$$.

Does anyone actually pay those amounts?

 

[jpboyce]

It's even worse if you compare those against US domestic "first" flights (which I would say are comparable to Australian domestic flights in terms of product).

Maybe something about competition, "high cost of business in Australia", etc.

 

[kermatu]

The comparison with US first flights is illustrative - but competition and market forces explains a lot. Over $3k for Mel-Per return is craz. But then so too is $600 for business one way Canberra to Sydney (barely 30 minutes in the air!) which is my candidate for extreme.

 

[russ]

I pay those amounts quite often, albeit reimbursed by clients. If the client cites their travel policy, I cite mine!

 

[defurax]

I find that often the J cabin is half filled with J PAX connecting to international flights, so if Dom J was too affordable there might be no seats for connecting J PAX. Just a thought...

 

[smit0847]

Its worth whatever people pay for it

 

[juddles]

A few random comments:

1.- interesting comment by defurax - I must admit the only times I ever fly J in Aust dom is part of an international ticket.
2.- I am *sure* (ie I have absolutely no actual evidence or anything - just suspicion) that almost no one pays those prices themselves - always booked to a client or paid by a company.
3.- Aust dom J product (other than the A330's which I have not flown) is still heaps better than some. For example, Lufthansa J class intra-Europe (so actually technically international J) is just a blocked middle seat on a ****ty little A320 - same seats, and even SAME PITCH!
4.- Supply and demand, but allowed by point (2) above.
5.- and last thing, to the OP, don't ever start using simple maths like comparing distances of flights and prices - nothing in airline ticket pricing appears sane to a casual observer. But it actually is the product of decades of experience by an industry that fights daily for sheer survival.

 

[Melburnian1]

True, smit0847, but you and I pay for it indirectly in the price of goods and services, or in higher Federal and State Government deficits, when staff from private enterprise and government departments travel in J.

I have declined to join others in business class between MEL and SYD because paying such a huge fare premium cannot be justified for such a small sector. It's irrelevant if it's not coming out of my pocket - someone else has to pay for such largesse.

MEL - PER and especially SYD - PER is a different story, but yes, even these are outrageously priced given the distance and comparison with international routes where in most cases there is more competition.

Interestingly we have yet to unearth any AFFer who pays J fares domestically at full tote odds out of his or her own pocket.

 

[juddles]

..... these are outrageously priced given the distance and comparison with international routes where in most cases there is more competition......

Melburnian1, not wanting to get into an argument, but I disagree with such terms as "outrageously priced". As an industry the airlines operate on a pittance of a margin, if any. I can buy a can of coke in a supermarket for 50c, but in a servo it costs me $3. If I choose to pay the $3, I am setting the market price in that environment.

Airline tickets are cheaper than ever. That "outrageously priced" transcontinental flight is still great value if you compare it to historical prices/services.

 

[cove]

I always thought the flights were priced that way to make Perth people enjoy doing points redemption flights and feel smart doing just that. We do about 30-40 return J flights a year when I count up the family members flying.

 

[boomy]

The crazy prices can be justified in different ways but at these rates I would expect top-notch service and f&b.

It unacceptable that on shorts routes pax sitting in row 3 on 738s don't always get the same level of service as pax sitting in row 1 for example. I've also witnessed even on A330 flights MEL-SYD that pax sitting in the last rows were served very late due to FAs being overly chatty with other pax.

F&B quality is too low and the international dining experience QF once promoted on East-West Coast routes is not happening.

Some relatively minor improvements like real champagne onboard (as VA offers I believe) and amenity kits on medium-haul routes can make the whole product look more premium and less like a huge rip-off.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

3.- Aust dom J product (other than the A330's which I have not flown) is still heaps better than some. For example, Lufthansa J class intra-Europe (so actually technically international J) is just a blocked middle seat on a ****ty little A320 - same seats, and even SAME PITCH!

Domestic Australia is superior in seat only, and even then, only really in terms of seat pitch. Width is the same (3 seats->2). In other aspects I'd argue service and food is better on the majority of European carriers. QF struggles (and I mean really struggles) to serve row 3 on a 737 during cruise on a MEL-SYD flight. No such problem on EU carriers - or US (or any other part of the world) carriers. CX can serve a full multi course meal in 40 minutes on a short haul. Almost unheard of on QF.

Airline tickets are cheaper than ever. That "outrageously priced" transcontinental flight is still great value if you compare it to historical prices/services.

True - First class fares in Australia have always been expensive. So too were economy. Economy prices have come down making the gap appear noticeable.

But too much? I think so. Ansett provides an example of MEL-SYD for $1480. For the same price you can fly return to Europe in economy. With somewhere like 4 full meals, multiple drink services, snacks, printed menus with multiple choices, IFE with hundreds of options and even amenity kits.

 

[juddles]

...I always thought the flights were priced that way to make Perth people enjoy doing points redemption flights and feel smart .....

I had thought that too, just didn't want to burst the bubble you smug western folk think is real

 

[Nizar]

I agree ridiculous but if you must travel J for domestic I would wait for sales.
I've seen MEL-PER for $999 one way and MEL-SYD for $399 one way.
Not an outright bargain but certainly stacks up well comparatively.

 

[DaveB]

The Federal Government makes a nice little earner for the airlines spending $377m on airline travel in FY2013 with 64% on domestic travel or $241m.
Never flying Y and always on points, thank my lucky stars the at worst double points outlay is such a bargain.

 

[juddles]

The Federal Government makes a nice little earner for the airlines spending $377m on airline travel in FY2013 with 64% on domestic travel or $241m.
Never flying Y and always on points, thank my lucky stars the at worst double points outlay is such a bargain.

$241 million? Peanuts compared with government subsidies (propping up) of airlines in other countries. Obviously though, Qantas is not technically a national airline....