Who Pays for Business?

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Often wondered who pays for business and why.
Interested in how travelers justify this stupidity.

Did it ever occur to you that some people physically need a larger seat and more legroom?

I'm 185cm tall, size 13 feet and wear a 48" shirt. In other words, built like a brick sh!thouse. Anything longer than SYD-MEL or NTL-MEL can get pretty painful. So for the longer trips it's Virgin PE or business/Y+ abroad.

BTW This forum needs a user rating system like whirlpool.net.au.
 
I am very much looking forward to a 14 hr flight tomorrow, kicking off with breakfast in the FLounge. I'm not sure I would feel the same if I was doing it in Y.

The ticket price is extreme, but if it makes the difference between a successful business trip and negotiating like a zombie then the dollars are invested well.
 
Biggest waste would have to be Melbourne/Canberra. Freeloading politicians and public servants occupying 8 rows of J class seats for a 45 min flight. Hands up anyone who pays J for this sector. The FAs are flat out pushing the trolley and the wine out for a 45 minute sector: what a joke.
 
Often wondered who pays for business and why. Is just a case of the company is paying so why not. Before I sold my business travelled domestically I guess about 25 times pa and several Internationals. My business could have afforded it but I only saw it it the biggest waste of money. Generally in business we strive to be cost efficient, but blowing 10's of thous a year on a bigger seat and more dodgy food, just does not add up. If I want to eat well I go to a good restaurant, not get on an plane.
Now I travel everywhere at my expense, and I still don't get it. I have an overseas holiday in the Carribean for what some will spend on their seat.
Jet lag etc is a load of rubbish. We get to the other end feeling the same as anyone else.
Interested in how travelers justify this stupidity.

Last trip to LAX and Return was self funded and booked in J (points upgrade to F both ways), if I was travelling for a company with them paying for it, then yes cost would obviously be a factor.
As for justifying the "stupidity", as my travel is purely leisure (ie Annual leave) I want the holiday to start from the moment I leave not 15 hours later plus how ever long it takes to get over jet lag (which for me is not a load of rubbish..ymmv).
 
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Biggest waste would have to be Melbourne/Canberra. Freeloading politicians and public servants occupying 8 rows of J class seats for a 45 min flight. Hands up anyone who pays J for this sector. The FAs are flat out pushing the trolley and the wine out for a 45 minute sector: what a joke.

I do.

My wife and I like to take our daughter (who is still young enough to be taken as a lap infant, at least for a few more months) to Sydney/Melbourne for short trips away every now and then. If we fly CBR-MEL or CBR-SYD we pay for 2x J seats with our daughter on our lap. We usually allocate seats in Row 1 so there's plenty of room for her to move about, she can stand up in front of us if she gets tired of sitting down, there's nobody to get annoyed with her bumping the seat in front and she enjoys watching the flight attendants do their thing in the galley during the flight.

If there are JASA seats available at classic points levels then we'll likely use those, otherwise we pay with cash. The cost doesn't bother me though - flying J makes it a better flight for her and for her parents so it's worth any cost.
 
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Biggest waste would have to be Melbourne/Canberra. Freeloading politicians and public servants occupying 8 rows of J class seats for a 45 min flight. Hands up anyone who pays J for this sector. The FAs are flat out pushing the trolley and the wine out for a 45 minute sector: what a joke.

Which airline has 8 rows of J seats?

Qantas has only 3 rows in a 737 (which do the MEL/CBR route I think?) and only 5-6 rows in a 767 or A330.

Virgin only have 2 rows in their 737s.
 
When I fly MEL/CBR on jobs for the government they pay for me to go J. When travelling for the government I get treated as if I was at a particular level in the SES and that includes J travel. I'm not going to volunteer to sit in Y out of some misplaced sense of proletarian solidarity with the lower-ranking public servants on the plane. It's also a lot easier to work in J than Y and at the hourly rate I charge them its probably a good investment to let me work and travel at the same time.
 
Travel OS is always J and i pay for it because I enjoy it.I just work an extra week to get a DONE or Circle fare in J.No problems.
As well-with me crediting to AA for every 2 paid trips I get a similiar Aaward in J.
Plus-my next trip has 3 long haul segments.One already upgraded to F-NRT-DFW-on AA at no cost.One-LAX-BNE already have allocated F seats with J service at no cost.The third-SYD-BKK have put in for the points lottery to upgrade.So far 2 out of 2 on that sector.
Besides why should you care.I like it and dont aspire to be the richest man in the cemetery.
But there was a good comment in today's Australian that i fully agree with-"I am offended by people who are easily offended".
 
Yep, I pay for business.

If I travel for work and the flight is up to Asia and beyond then it is in J.

For holidays we go J or F. If in F it is always on points but J (companion fares, USAirways, etc.) I will look to pay. I usually get one decent holiday a year or so and I want to start from the moment I arrive at the airport. I deal with enough stress at work so forget dealing with it on hols as well.

It isn't a waste - just how I chose to spend money. If you don't like it then sit back in Y.
 
Which airline has 8 rows of J seats?

Qantas has only 3 rows in a 737 (which do the MEL/CBR route I think?) and only 5-6 rows in a 767 or A330.

Virgin only have 2 rows in their 737s.

QF have six rows of J on a 737 that flies SYD-CBR and CBR-MEL

I do.

My wife and I like to take our daughter (who is still young enough to be taken as a lap infant, at least for a few more months) to Sydney/Melbourne for short trips away every now and then. If we fly CBR-MEL or CBR-SYD we pay for 2x J seats with our daughter on our lap. We usually allocate seats in Row 1 so there's plenty of room for her to move about, she can stand up in front of us if she gets tired of sitting down, there's nobody to get annoyed with her bumping the seat in front and she enjoys watching the flight attendants do their thing in the galley during the flight.

If there are JASA seats available at classic points levels then we'll likely use those, otherwise we pay with cash. The cost doesn't bother me though - flying J makes it a better flight for her and for her parents so it's worth any cost.

Out of interest did you fly J before you daughter arrived? Do you intend to fly J after she has to have her own seat? Just wondering if the decision is a new one based on needing extra room?
 
We use Y domestic (been bumped up to J a few times), on business we purchase J tickets, on leisure we use JASA mostly, like the larger seats, leg room, easier boarding, better service and being able to get some decent sleep in on overnight flights.
 
J is fun. Y is awful. Why wouldn't it be worth it if you're lucky enough to afford it ?
 
Out of interest did you fly J before you daughter arrived? Do you intend to fly J after she has to have her own seat? Just wondering if the decision is a new one based on needing extra room?

My wife and I have been flying J/F for as long as we've been able to afford to do so, so certainly pre-daughter. The decision to fly J Domestic / F International is a personal one we made when it was just the 2 of us, but the additional space and comfort now that we travel as a family just provides some pragmatic reasons to support our choice.

What to do when our daughter turns 2 and requires her own seat is quite a dilemma, mainly from the point of view as to whether the premium cabins provide suitable seats for her to fly in. Domestically we intend to keep flying J as it just means being split across an aisle with one parent & daughter in 1A/1B and the other parent in 1D for instance.

International flights present a different problem - we prefer to fly QF F on the A380 but that won't be possible as the layout doesn't allow for one of us to sit next to our daughter during taxi/takeoff/landing, and there's no way she will sit quietly on her own for 30+ minutes in a seat where she is isolated from all human contact.

For our first international trip after she turns 2 we've booked 3 seats in J on QF7/8, having allocated 4E, 4F and 4K in the 'First' cabin which means we can sit close enough together to try to prevent issues during the 'seatbelt fastened' times.

To bring this back on topic - that booking was a normal cash fare.
 
Wouldn't buy J domestic unless it's over to Perth and thats only a recent thing due to the recent change in cabin type.

Internationally we've been flying family trips in J & F for years. I suppose like many I got hooked flying up the front due to free business trips (company purchased) and have repelled all thoughts of dropping back. We take annual OS trips in J or F and have purchased roughly half with cash with the remainder via points.

Next trip is F to Europe and we brought as BA had a fly F for J prices......just to good not to buy.

It all depends on what you like....I know many people who scab on flights/holidays/life but spend insane amounts on cars.
 
It has been a while so I have pretty much forgotten how to buy an air ticket in Australia. J travel on points inside Australia is a really good way to burn points.
 
Just returned from a cruise of the Mediterranean. Flew 6 legs in business on Emirates. To me the business class is a mixture of money and points. A big part of my holiday is the flight and it all begins when that champagne is in my hand.

My only comment on waste of money is that no small children shoud be allowed in business class with parents who don't care that the child screams from Singapore to Melbourne and disrupts the whole cabin. No consideration and no good parenting. It equated to 2 adults and an 18 month old child in 2 business class seats with the child screaming all night. Even before we left the ground. They should have had sense and consideration and saved their money (not wasted ours) and got themselves 3 economy seats at the back of the plane and let the brat scream to its heart's content.

Maybe back there the stewards could do something about it, because the stewards in Business certainly didn't.

If it means a rule regarding children in business class, bring it on.
 
Despite all the garbage on a lot of forums stating that nobody ever pays for business or first class, I'd venture a lot of people on most airlines pay for their business class ticket on long haul flights. As for me I always pay for my business/first class ticket for work and liesure and use my miles to upgrade family/friends. I wouldn't necessarily buy a business class ticket form SYD-MEL, but long haul flights (especially on 14-15 hour) flights are especially exhausting in economy when there is high loading (and most airlines are making sure they are getting over 80% loading in economy on all routes or reducing frequency). For work I need to be refreshed when I land, and for liesure its nice not to have to spend a day recovering from a flight. I try to travel as economically as possible. For instance I just won't go out and pay for a 18,000 AUD first class ticket. As with anything travelling in premium cabins requires some intelligence and planning. Here are some things I used to secure a good deal:

1) I know a competent travel agent. Travel agents even though they have been relegated to glorified holiday package salespeople can still be of enormous help with airline tickets. Good travel agents are the first to know about airline sales, promotions, special fare tricks etc. While I know relatively a lot about certain things with air travel, my travel agent knows 100 times more. There is a downside to travel agents, as airlines are trying to push them out of the equation they are making internet only deals much more common. Travel agents will likely not have access to these fares, and will know nothing about it. Airlines seem to refuse to let travel agents know about online specials.

2) I use a few travel tools, and plan my flights (if I can) as far in advance as possible. As I'm in a field that has much more flexible time frames, I hardly ever have to book last minute tickets. Booking in advance doesn't necessarily give the best deal, but what it does do it allows you to be there when a promotion or sale is on. For instance a business class fare to London for departure in June of next year may be 12,000 AUD, but if you wait the airlines usually release a special fare that is up to half price. I map out all my flights within the next year in my calender, and I input them all into KVS/ExpertFlyer. For flights I haven't booked yet I will do daily price searches (these tools allow you to save searches so its relatively easy). Generally these tools show internet only fares, but sometimes they don't so every so often (every week), I'll go to the airline website to do searches. I also check on pricing of tickets I've already purchased as a lot of airlines will give you travel credit for future travel on the difference if its a similar booking class. I know this procedure is quite obsessive, but one thing airfares are not is static. A lot of airfares I've secured over the past have only been available for a week or less.

3) Sometimes using creative routing is key. I remember when I was in the US for a year, and I had to go to Taipei. The cheapest airfare was like 12,000 USD first class in 1998. I did multiple multi city searches with *A carriers and found a first class fare going through BKK and then Taipei on United and Thai Airways that was 6,000 dollars cheaper. When do I do these creative routings when the fares of certain routes are above my threshold. Sometimes traveling short-haul in economy to a different starting city can reduce the fares markedly as well. (Example sometimes fares ex Melbourne or Brisbane are much cheaper than Sydney).

So yes buying business class/first tickets is more expensive than economy, but if you play it smart it doesn't have to be the eye-gouging prices you normally see if you just did a random search for business class/first class airfares on a travel or airline search engine. For my money, paying 4000 to 6000 dollars more for a 24+ hour flight to have some level of personal space and comfort is well worth it, especially as I travel relatively often. In all honesty whenever I am flying in business and first, and go back to economy just to look I am disgusted how airlines have to cram people in to make money. It would be nice if somehow airlines could still make money, offer reasonable fares, and allow better space for passengers. Unfortunately I fear that its part the travelling public's fault as well which expect cut-rate fares. I would think even an increase of fares by 20% would allow some more space in economy, but passengers would probably flock to the airline with crammed in seating for 20% less.
 
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