Which group do ground staff prefer?

[Melburnian1]

This is a fascinating set of responses, particularly the discussion about 'degrees of rudeness.' I have to agree that a very tired FIFO mine employee might be incorrectly perceived as 'rude' when he is simply very tired (or stressed at how he is about to arrive home and face SWMBO asking 'Bill, can you cut the grass? Bill, the fence needs repair? Bill, there's a small matter I'd like to discuss about the credit card...')

Must...Fly!, there's little doubt that solo travellers have it easiest compared to families with young children.

 

[Newk]

This is a fascinating set of responses, particularly the discussion about 'degrees of rudeness.' I have to agree that a very tired FIFO mine employee might be incorrectly perceived as 'rude' when he is simply very tired (or stressed at how he is about to arrive home and face SWMBO asking 'Bill, can you cut the grass? Bill, the fence needs repair? Bill, there's a small matter I'd like to discuss about the credit card...')

Must...Fly!, there's little doubt that solo travellers have it easiest compared to families with young children.

Indeed and there is (IMHO) another telling post, although I doubt the poster meant to be so perceptive. It is about the effect that the "rudeness" has on the recipient of the "rudeness". People can choose their responses. It is all far more eloquently discussed here:

David Foster Wallace on Life and Work - WSJ.com


And as well as this who is to say that one group of passengers is always better than another. On one day a crew member may be totally put off by the silence from the "rude" high status passenger in 1A. The same crew member on another day, depending on their own internal state, may be totally delighted to not have to engage in conversation with the same, but this time, not so bad, person in 1A.

I can probably agree that there are behaviours that most would see as "rude" and I cannot agree that there is only rudeness.

 

[Isochronous]

High status pax are regulars, so whilst some may become pushy, others will befriend the FAs especially if they see them multiple times.

 

[Kieran2274]

Certainly agree with the above statement that you'll get quite a lot of care and attention if you only show a little in the first place. I'm occasionally surprised by FAs, who I've had on previous flights, stopping to say hello as I'm off boarding another flight (and not because I'm an X, Y or Z, but just because saying please and thank you lead to a little conversation in the air). Given the amount of people they meet in a year, I'm guessing quite a few FAs really appreciate the small things.

 

[Awesom Andy]

High status pax are regulars, so whilst some may become pushy, others will befriend the FAs especially if they see them multiple times.

Have to admit, I have a few FAs on my social media accounts.

But yes, I quite agree with the DYKWIA who can be quite rude, and chances are, you'll find one in the first few rows of the Y cabin. Depending on the airline and flight (and hence the likely clientele), I find myself advising non-ff friends and family that they might want to consider sitting a few rows back.

 

[smit0847]

Friends who work as VA ground staff have told me VA Silver members are the most annoying as they think they are important to the airline but they are really not.

 

[Ewing]

Friends who work as VA ground staff have told me VA Silver members are the most annoying as they think they are important to the airline but they are really not.

Seen a lot of that from people on social media: "I fly a lot and am silver. You can't afford to lose my business" (usually put less eloquently).

 

[Kieran2274]

Seen a lot of that from people on social media: "I fly a lot and am silver. You can't afford to lose my business" (usually put less eloquently).

I really can't see any airline bending over backwards absolutely every time, or really treating you as the uber flyer, unless you happen to be in the top 5% of flyers/travel contract delegates by overall value. Even then, the top 1% by overall value are likely to given much weight to say those in the 5th percentile. It's the pax, and generally not the airline, who tend to read too much into the FF classes that any old joe (or jill) can obtain.

As as a quick rule of thumb, I'd say if the Duty Airport Manager for an airline meets you on arrival at the airport terminal, then you can be fairly safe in saying you might be someone whose opinions and thoughts (and business) are given much weight by said airline.

Even then, the real movers and shakers in the world often (but not always) don't have any airline status at all. Why? Because they don't fly RPT, they either own their own private jet fleet or have someone managing wet leases on PJs for them. No lines, no need to worry about check-in times, and the fastest customs and immigration clearances ever.

 

[Kieran2274]

The reference to fair work and bullying is quite remarkable. Are you able to tell me how many of these cases have been brought by airlines against customers?

Sorry Newk, I missed this question you asked until now (I tend to just skim over blagging lol). The answer is that as the changes made to the Fair Work Commission were only made recently (in the dying days of the last federal government), this is still new ground and many organisations and industry groups are watching this space to see what happens.

The oddity of it is that the intention was not to extend this bullying complaint to people outside employees of the organisation the person works for, but the actual wording used in the amendment made by the former Labor Government is far too wide and is deemed to be open to employee-customer complaints as well.

If you really want to find out more (hey, you may actually be interested!) I suggest you search the news feeds, it has been well commented on in the last month or two (above and beyond just the industrial law journals).

 

[Kieran2274]

Never worked in the airline industry but when I worked in the hotel industry, I noticed that guests with a status were more rude, especially when they weren't given an upgrade or two connecting rooms (if requested). The "smarter" travelers or guests will be nice and courteous to the FD agents, especially if they notice the person before them being rude.

Good advice for anyone ​Jimgotkp ​- most people do get it.

 

[Newk]

Sorry Newk, I missed this question you asked until now (I tend to just skim over blagging lol). The answer is that as the changes made to the Fair Work Commission were only made recently (in the dying days of the last federal government), this is still new ground and many organisations and industry groups are watching this space to see what happens.

The oddity of it is that the intention was not to extend this bullying complaint to people outside employees of the organisation the person works for, but the actual wording used in the amendment made by the former Labor Government is far too wide and is deemed to be open to employee-customer complaints as well.

If you really want to find out more (hey, you may actually be interested!) I suggest you search the news feeds, it has been well commented on in the last month or two (above and beyond just the industrial law journals).

Oh, wow, thanks. I wasn't aware of that. OK I sort of get your comment now......it's possible as an unintended consequence of recent bullying legislation. I find this sort of stuff pretty scary. I cannot say too much as some people know who I am , but we've recently been involved in threats of bullying by a recently departed employee.

Note a new paragraph and this sentence may not be linked to the last one---bullying can become a way for an alleged bullyee to bully the alleged bullyer, if that makes sense. And it's not to deny that there is a lot of bullying angst out there so please, no one, start that. I just want to state that I see it as a far more complex issue that it might initially appear.

Thanks again and apologies for the small diversion from the thread

 

[Kieran2274]

it's possible as an unintended consequence of recent bullying legislation. I find this sort of stuff pretty scary.

Yes, that's it in a nutshell. Legal remedies have been available before in these situations, but rarely ever used given the time and money involved is substantial (and often achieves little other than a Pyrrhic victory). What makes this Fair Work amendment such a ticking time bomb is that it is largely an administrative/tribunal process had for fee simple. The Commission may filter out or "de-prioritise" such complaints to limit them, but right now it's a very grey area.

 

[Hvr]

<snip>

Must...Fly!, there's little doubt that solo travellers have it easiest compared to families with young children.

As a solo traveller I disagree.

You never hear of families being moved to accommodate a solo traveller.

We're the ones who are expected to smile and look after families who often don't plan ahead but expect the world to revolve around them. Virtually always to our detriment.

Same as in the workplace. Ever hear of a family person being told they can't have leave at a specific time because a single person needs that time?

Same as being told to change hours etc because a family person can't do their job/shift etc?

Frankly I'm over it. I have a life as well and my plans are just as important as the family person.

And yes selfishness by family people is construed as rudeness by this single person.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Frankly I'm over it. I have a life as well and my plans are just as important as the family person.

Indeed, and your post raises some fantastic points, but when/why would your life be so greatly impacted by a seat change? It might not even be the family's fault.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Indeed, and your post raises some fantastic points, but when/why would your life be so greatly impacted by a seat change? It might not even be the family's fault.

The last seat change I had, the family was more embarrassed than I was. As the flight progressed, those bulkhead seats (with bassinets) were shared among a couple of families, and it became a makeshift children entertainment area. It was a 12-hour flight, and only 50% load, so it all worked out well.

 

[amaroo]

Likewise. As a family man I was more than happy to move from 1K to 5A to accommodate a couple with wee little baby.

These things are sorted with good karma and happiness!

 

[erkpod]

As a solo traveller I disagree.

You never hear of families being moved to accommodate a solo traveller.

We're the ones who are expected to smile and look after families who often don't plan ahead but expect the world to revolve around them. Virtually always to our detriment.

Same as in the workplace. Ever hear of a family person being told they can't have leave at a specific time because a single person needs that time?

Same as being told to change hours etc because a family person can't do their job/shift etc?

Frankly I'm over it. I have a life as well and my plans are just as important as the family person.

And yes selfishness by family people is construed as rudeness by this single person.

Not to mention things like single surcharges that some places do, often worse seating when eating out, harder for some tours due to numbers and in some cases, the DYKWWA attitude...

 

[Melburnian1]

As a solo traveller I disagree.

You never hear of families being moved to accommodate a solo traveller.

We're the ones who are expected to smile and look after families who often don't plan ahead but expect the world to revolve around them. Virtually always to our detriment.

Same as in the workplace. Ever hear of a family person being told they can't have leave at a specific time because a single person needs that time?

Same as being told to change hours etc because a family person can't do their job/shift etc?

Frankly I'm over it. I have a life as well and my plans are just as important as the family person.

And yes selfishness by family people is construed as rudeness by this single person.

I understand the annoyance, but societies throughout the world have always considered families - a married mother and father plus children - to be society's future. If none of us had children, society would cease to exist (unless there was a continuous large flow of migrants). That's a discussion beyond the scope of AFF as an aviation forum, but families expect to sit together because the needs of the children are primary. Younger children want to be with their parents while many older ones need supervision. I am always happy to accommodate families on public transport, whether it be trains, buses or aeroplanes, because their needs are greater than those of us who are travelling on our own. It's just plain Christian courtesy, but it makes good sense on a whole range of levels.

 

[erkpod]

I understand the annoyance, but societies throughout the world have always considered families - a married mother and father plus children - to be society's future. If none of us had children, society would cease to exist (unless there was a continuous large flow of migrants). That's a discussion beyond the scope of AFF as an aviation forum, but families expect to sit together because the needs of the children are primary. Younger children want to be with their parents while many older ones need supervision. I am always happy to accommodate families on public transport, whether it be trains, buses or aeroplanes, because their needs are greater than those of us who are travelling on our own. It's just plain Christian courtesy, but it makes good sense on a whole range of levels.

I disagree to a point. Courtesy. Full stop. We all have to do whatever it is we are doing together in a confined spot regardless of if it is planes, trains or automobiles. It's all about attitude.

I often get asked by others why I travel alone. I don't have an SO & if I waited for friends to get their backsides into gear to come with me, I'd never go anywhere. This is one thing that I like about AFF's community - we like to travel & we do it. If a few of us are going together or at the same event, better still.

 

[Kieran2274]

I have a life as well and my plans are just as important as the family person.

Indeed, and your post raises some fantastic points, but when/why would your life be so greatly impacted by a seat change? It might not even be the family's fault.

I don't think Hvr is really making the crux of his point about seat changes (he's just used it as an example). He is just talking about generalised biases toward one group or another that, while sometimes logical, don't always make sense. As he said, if you've got yourself organised, why should you be negatively affected by someone else who hasn't, because of some presumed preference.

For instance, I'm sure everyone groans (either inwardly or outwardly) if the person/s in front of them in the check-in queue have exceeded a bag weight limit and then proceed to hold up the queue by re-packing right there at the check-in desk rather than moving away to an area more appropriate to re-pack and then re-join the queue once done.

Families that leave seeking seats together until they practically board, when ample opportunity was available to do this earlier, is much the same sort of event. Poor planning, disrupting others who did the right thing, without reasonable excuse.

Having children certainly means a lot of responsibility for any couple, and most families are responsible sensible groups, but a few people tend to have forgotten that having a family requires a lot of hard work and tend to treat it a little too lightly. Not everyone is perfect, but if you expect the world at large to bend over backwards to suit you, when you've done little to do anything yourself - it's no surprise it will put some peoples noses out of joint.

So I don't think Hvr is anti-families, just anti those who use favourable biases as their go-to plan without trying to be a little pro-active beforehand. I think that's an understandable point of view.