Where's all the UA J (Polaris) TPAC availability gone?

[MEL_Traveller]

That is very late (almost a month too late, really)!

He does state this though:

Maybe he was waiting to see if it was a "temp" glitch? I'm sceptical though, Lucky would have "contacts" in high places (especially at UA, DL and AA, given he's based in the US), so he would be able to find out pretty quickly what's actually going on...

Yeah nah

He’s super quick to post on other things, even while the story is unfolding. This was a pretty major program change.

 

[MathNerd]

Yeah nah

He’s super quick to post on other things, even while the story is unfolding. This was a pretty major program change.

I agree. He likes to be at the (fore)front in all instances.
Anyway, he was late, and UA won't release J Savers to partners anymore. Sad to see (there's a lot of devals happening left right and centre - UA, Amex, SQ, the list goes on).

Back to the topic of the thread, the only way to get Polaris then on flights is to buy Y or Y+, and put in MUA upgrade requests (mostly on waitlists) and see where that takes you. Have to temper expectations though, depending on how many GS, 1k's etc are on the flight and are ahead of you in the upgrade queue.

Not looking forward to a 16 hour TPAC in the back of the bus on 863 in 3 weeks if the MUA doesn't clear

 

[antycbr]

Certainly makes *A awards for all other carriers useless other than Y. Wonder how other *A partners feel about that?

 

[ElizaB]

I got a J rewards ticket on Hong Kong Airlines, YVR to HKG, but Im thinking of getting rid of it. It just takes so much longer to get home that way. Y with United it is

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I got a J rewards ticket on Hong Kong Airlines, YVR to HKG, but Im thinking of getting rid of it. It just takes so much longer to get home that way. Y with United it is

It does take longer, but if you’re asleep for 8 of those hours on the TPAC, and then again on the flight to AU….

 

[bcworld]

Certainly makes *A awards for all other carriers useless other than Y. Wonder how other *A partners feel about that?

Well SQ has been blocking the majority of *A partners from long haul business class redemptions for probably approaching 20 years now, so....

 

[levelnine]

Agree nothing will happen. Just pushes *A that little bit closer to being an alliance in name only.

 

[Human]

Well SQ has been blocking the majority of *A partners from long haul business class redemptions for probably approaching 20 years now, so....

Really the trend for the past couple of years now (at least) has been for airlines to give first dibs to members of their own FF programmes. It's happening more and more, which means that flexible points programmes are more important than ever.

As @bcworld rightly pointed out, Singapore Airlines has been doing it for years, Qantas has been doing it for years by making awards available to Platinums first, Cathay is now doing it, Virgin Atlantic and BA have been doing it, Emirates is now doing it ... All United is doing is joining the club. Yes, it's annoying. But it's neither unusual nor unexpected.

On the other hand, it makes it a lot easier to find reward seats if you do have the right FF currency, because there's less competition. I can't pretend that I haven't benefited from that. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Thought I’d chime in here as that impacts me too now that I’m based in Europe as United until mid-August had tons of business availability to Europe from North America. Indeed I booked my flight from Toronto to Frankfurt in United Business just 10 days prior to me departing on August 4th. In talking with a colleague who regularly used his Virgin miles to fly United Business between Brazil and the U.S. he noticed the same thing for an upcoming trip he has this month. No business availability. Indeed if one were to look at Seats.aero you’d struggle to find more than a couple of flights in the two month period they show you with business availability between regions like Europe, North America and Oceania.

Curious I dug further and think I found out why this is happening. Essentially United is holding onto all that saver space for their credit card customers:

United Airlines Cuts Off Business Class Awards Unless You Hold Their Credit Card [Roundup] - View from the Wing

A roundup of the most important stories of the day. I keep you up to date on the most interesting writings I find on other sites – the latest news and tips.

viewfromthewing.com

I suppose we’ll now have to see if this drop in availability is a glitch caused by United not considering availability to release to partners or a further enhancement of their award flight policy. To be frank I’m indifferent to the change. If it means I can score an upgrade now using my United Miles because we have no saver availability I don’t mind as that means I can build up my united lifetime miles for status. Although I can appreciate the struggle for those who aren’t at least partly invested in the DollarsPlus loyalty program.

-RooFlyer88

 

[andrewpf]

Does this trend (airlines just releasing reward seats to their own members or other preferred customers first, much less/none for their partners) start to significantly degrade Virgin's FF offering compared to Qantas for people seeking long-haul business class redemption?

Qantas at least has its own flights to the US, Europe, and Asia. Virgin's counter is its got wet lease/part ownership with Qatar and ability to transfer to Krisflyer.

But overall, if you want to grab business rewards to the US now with Virgin there are none available at all; while Qantas does offer them on its own aircraft, over which it has full control of inventories .

I ask as someone that is mostly accruing Virgin points considering moving across to Qantas.

 

[im.daniel]

Does this trend (airlines just releasing reward seats to their own members or other preferred customers first, much less/none for their partners) start to significantly degrade Virgin's FF offering compared to Qantas for people seeking long-haul business class redemption?

Qantas at least has its own flights to the US, Europe, and Asia.

I ask as someone that is mostly accruing Virgin points considering moving across to Qantas.

Without Platinum/Platinum 1 on QF, I think it’s extremely hard to reliably redeem QF points on long haul in J.

Now with the QF devaluation, I think VA points are worth more than QF again. SQ and QR at least have J seats for redemption 8-11 months out if you’re organised enough. These can often be booked with VA points. The proposition is further boosted by VA having wet-leases to DOH now.

This year I managed to spend 600k VA for my wife and mother to fly to CPH return in August/September in J having booked 8 months in advance. I also managed to redeem DUB-MEL on QR via VA as well for myself in July, booked 9 months out. I have also just redeemed 104k on ADL-NGO for January, booked 4 months out in SQ J.

There is no way I would be able to redeem for those equivalent flights as a mere QF Plat, especially in peak season to EU where QF embargoes J redemptions.

With UA blocking inventory to partner airlines however, using VA points to US is significantly more challenging. Your best bet to the US would be to redeem VA miles on SQ, followed by QR, or NH if booking on short notice in an off-peak season.

 

[SYD]

Without Platinum/Platinum 1 on QF, I think it’s extremely hard to reliably redeem QF points on long haul in J.

Now with the QF devaluation, I think VA points are worth more than QF again. SQ and QR at least have J seats for redemption 8-11 months out if you’re organised enough. These can often be booked with VA points. The proposition is further boosted by VA having wet-leases to DOH now.

This year I managed to spend 600k VA for my wife and mother to fly to CPH return in August/September in J having booked 8 months in advance. I also managed to redeem DUB-MEL on QR via VA as well for myself in July, booked 9 months out. I have also just redeemed 104k on ADL-NGO for January, booked 4 months out in SQ J.

There is no way I would be able to redeem for those equivalent flights as a mere QF Plat, especially in peak season to EU where QF embargoes J redemptions.

With UA blocking inventory to partner airlines however, using VA points to US is significantly more challenging. Your best bet to the US would be to redeem VA miles on SQ, followed by QR, or NH if booking on short notice in an off-peak season.

For BNE based QFF, there’s plenty of seats to NAm (and they’re coming through ex SYD and probably elsewhere if you don’t mind transiting BNE). FJ is also pretty reliable.

TBH, I was surprised that there was ever decent UA award seat availability via VA. When I was a UA PE, getting award seats in J ex Oz was rarer than Rocking Horse poo….

 

[im.daniel]

For BNE based QFF, there’s plenty of seats to NAm (and they’re coming through ex SYD and probably elsewhere if you don’t mind transiting BNE). FJ is also pretty reliable.

TBH, I was surprised that there was ever decent UA award seat availability via VA. When I was a UA PE, getting award seats in J ex Oz was rarer than Rocking Horse poo….

UA availability (via VA) was only ever good when booked close in. Lots of us here in this thread used that to our advantage.

We had a family emergency in Jan this year, necessitating travel, I was able to find SYD-IAH in J 4 days out no issues. Likewise on the return.

It’s actually similar on QF TPAC, seats tend to open up on AA and to a lesser extent, on QF at short notice.

As for ex BNE, just did a quick search, I can see quite a few seats for Jul/Aug on QF J next year, but nothing prior to that ….

 

[SYD]

UA availability (via VA) was only ever good when booked close in. Lots of us here in this thread used that to our advantage.

Ok, that’s how it was always pre VA.

It’s actually similar on QF TPAC, seats tend to open up on AA and to a lesser extent, on QF at short notice.

For the same reason - US airlines will release seats closer to departure - QF less so but it happens.

As for ex BNE, just did a quick search, I can see quite a few seats for Jul/Aug on QF J next year, but nothing prior to that ….

They get snaffled pretty quickly! But they’ve been popping out regularly for several months now…

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Does this trend (airlines just releasing reward seats to their own members or other preferred customers first, much less/none for their partners) start to significantly degrade Virgin's FF offering compared to Qantas for people seeking long-haul business class redemption?

Only time will tell on this one. Perhaps this was all a fluke and in a few weeks we're back to the usual close-in availability in business. Where I see value with Virgin is it requires less points and the carrier surcharge is also considerably lower (if any). The other problem is that Air Canada tends to be stingy in releasing saver business award seats too which is an obvious routing to get to the United States.

The other thing to consider if United business becomes a thing of the past on Virgin is that it takes away a lot of routings to South America and Europe from Australia (yes there are some who fly Europe via the US from say Sydney). Sure you can fly Qatar to Europe or Singapore but the surcharge will be higher.

Qantas at least has its own flights to the US, Europe, and Asia. Virgin's counter is its got wet lease/part ownership with Qatar and ability to transfer to Krisflyer.

Yes although Qantas operated award flights are hard to find. On my last flight from Sydney to LA I had to use the Platinum line to get a J seat released on the date I needed to travel.

But overall, if you want to grab business rewards to the US now with Virgin there are none available at all; while Qantas does offer them on its own aircraft, over which it has full control of inventories .

My experience has been that yes you generally can find availability, particularly close in availability with American on Qantas between the Americas and between Oceania and the Americas. Although I would be remiss if I didn't point out the lack of LATAM business availability between Oceania and Santiago. At the same time the increased carrier surcharges remove some of the benefit of booking with QF.

I ask as someone that is mostly accruing Virgin points considering moving across to Qantas.

Having been in the frequent flyer game for some time, my suggestion has always been to diversify your collection of points, irrespective of how good a program has been to you. I hold no allegiance to Aeroplan, or Virgin Australia or Qantas for that matter. I rack up the points when I can and where I can as it is convenient, and then figure out the rest when I want to book. Sometimes that will mean Qantas is the clear winner whereas for other bookings I have it may very well be Virgin. There will be opportunities for you to make excellent use of your points irrespective of the program. Just keep collecting so the points don't expire!

Without Platinum/Platinum 1 on QF, I think it’s extremely hard to reliably redeem QF points on long haul in J.

This has not been my experience at all. Yes if you have a very specific day in mind and are booking ahead and you are travelling long haul on Qantas, then it can be an issue finding that availability. However, if you don't mind flying partners like American Airlines there can be some pretty good value. For instance, a colleague of mine redeemed Qantas miles not too long ago to fly between São Paulo and Washington, DC in business for around 90,000 points and $50 USD in taxes and fees each way. On the way there they are flying AA flagship business and on the way back they are flying LATAM Business. Both good products, and a decent price to boot too!

Now with the QF devaluation, I think VA points are worth more than QF again. SQ and QR at least have J seats for redemption 8-11 months out if you’re organised enough. These can often be booked with VA points. The proposition is further boosted by VA having wet-leases to DOH now.

Points of any frequent flyer program have no value and no meaning without any context. You need to have a specific booking in mind to be able to say whether a particular program is good or bad. Spending 118,000 Qantas points to fly Sydney to Brazil in business class on LATAM is an excellent deal in my books. Yet some people will rightly claim that an 80,000 point Classic Plus business redemption between Melbourne and Brisbane is poor value.

With UA blocking inventory to partner airlines however, using VA points to US is significantly more challenging. Your best bet to the US would be to redeem VA miles on SQ, followed by QR, or NH if booking on short notice in an off-peak season.

And again to reiterate, we don't really know what is going on behind the scenes. Right now it is all speculation. There could be a big reordering but I suspect any reordering won't result in United business awards being as rare as Air New Zealand business class awards (last seen January 2022) across the Pacific.