What is the best option to get from MEL to MNL?

[winfred]

Onboard MH704 from KUL to MNL. No satay sticks?!

 

[winfred]

Correct. regional B738....but you get those lovely satays



On J...
MNL-KUL =80sc
KUL-SIN =40 sc

Return will yield 240 sc

No satays and only 20 SC for SIN-KUL leg.

 

[Ric]

Oops! My bad!

I was using the QF earning calculator and my mistake was that I did not even looked at the carrier stated.
How would one even expect QF to be flying SIN - KUL?




My apologies and I owe you one. To make up for my mistake, can I buy you dinner the next time you are in Manila?

Ric

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Thought I'd add my experience to this thread rather than start a new thread.

I have been travelling SYD-MNL since Jan 15 once a month for work and must say the experience has been very average in whY. The old A330 bird is very tired, the loads seem to be very high no matter what day you fly ('premium' Fri/Sat flights are always full), the food is borderline-slop and the senior crew are 80% useless (you get some diamonds in the rough who actually enjoy their job and/or making sure the PAX are attended to). Add to this a return fare ranging from $900-$1600 on weekend flights you wonder why QF would not upgrade this route sooner or add a MEL/BNE service to spread the demand. Being WP the experience varies greatly from personal intro by the CSM, J headphones, offer of drink through to nothing at all (standard with QF). I have seen numerous folk upgraded onboard to J by the CSM but never had this happen to myself so interesting as to what the deal is there. I assume they are WP1?

I decided to try both PR and MH and both were much better, although equipment was the same food and service was miles ahead, along with flights only being 50%-75% full meaning everyone could be spread out.

My work stipulates I must travel QF/PR so it is near impossible to try CX or MH (my sole MH flight was on my own dime and reimbursed as a once-off).

From what I see Philippine investment and tourism is booming so unsure of why QF treat this route with such contempt. Some of my SYD colleagues have even flown PR via MEL as they detest the return overnight flights with QF so much!

 

[Melburnian1]

Yes, Mrmaxwell, Philippines is booming and has been for a couple of years: 100 million people and remittances flowing in to support consumer spending and investment in property. Perhaps as in China it may all fall in a hole one day: who knows. Tourism in Philippines is also increasing every year and lots more Australians are going there, although still not nearly as many who visit higher profile Bali, coughet or Fiji. It's not difficult to find an outstanding beach in the central or southern islands group and you have to travel by land to get there, but it's worth it.

The QF loads are indeed high to and from MNL. A look at the BITRE statistics shows that it is their best performing route in percentage of seats occupied, though as others always say it's the yields that matter. However MNL is now the world leading call cenre joint and number two in business process outsourcing if I recall. Plus there's more Filipinos living here every year (just like more Indians and Chinese) and apparently more students coming to Oz for university, although the latter are not visible in central Melbourne like the Chinese students are.

I haven't found the QF senior crew too bad (in fact once a male attendant was helpful in sorting out a problem with another passenger) but overall PR is better, often because even in whY it's only half to three quarters full as you correctly suggest and hence even with the narrow A330 seats (which I don't like, but most airlines are now nine across) you can find two or three seats to yourself, especially at the rear of the aircraft which irrationally is the least popular section in which to sit on almost any airline.

The PR punctuality is generally very good into and out of MEL, SYD and BNE via DRW (the latter is A320s or at holiday times larger A321s) while QF can be hit or miss, although lately not too bad.

5J that only operates MNL - SYD - MNL is another option. With PR one gets free meals which in business class are excellent and in economy class are fair, nothing startling. 5J has reasonably priced snacks and drinks available on board and like PR, cabin crew on 5J are on balance both friendlier than QF. PR has a more generous seating pitch than 5J which is not surprising as the latter has the mostly densely configured A330s worldwide.

Interestingly all three nonstop carriers on SYD - MNL use A330s (as does PR's MEL - MNL) but of the three, the QF ones are by far the oldest, with the 5J and PR ones being not long off the production line. There might not be too many routes out of Australia where one aircraft type dominates to such as extent.

CX in theory is a good alternative via HKG but much slower than flying nonstop to MNL with PR from SYD, MEL or DRW. However CX and other airlines (including QF) flying via HKG have lately had many delays due to bad weather, and this inevitably means some passengers miss connecting flights in HKG.

With the uncertainty over its future I would be avoiding MH, and that's without any mention of the unresolved safety issue.

 

[mannej]

I wouldn't even bother looking at the age of the 330's considering both PR and 5J plonk 9 across.

Not something I'd contemplate IMHO.

And no, 9-across is definitely not the norm on the A330. You could probably count the number of airlines who offer such arrangement on one hand.

 

[dajop]

Yeven with the narrow A330 seats (which I don't like, but most airlines are now nine across)

Actually very few airlines have 9 across on the A330, most still only have 8. The notable exceptions I can think of are Air Asia X, PR and Cebu Pacific and some European leisure airlines.

 

[Ric]

Thought I'd add my experience to this thread rather than start a new thread.

I have been travelling SYD-MNL since Jan 15 once a month for work and must say the experience has been very average in whY. The old A330 bird is very tired, the loads seem to be very high no matter what day you fly ('premium' Fri/Sat flights are always full), the food is borderline-slop and the senior crew are 80% useless (you get some diamonds in the rough who actually enjoy their job and/or making sure the PAX are attended to). Add to this a return fare ranging from $900-$1600 on weekend flights you wonder why QF would not upgrade this route sooner or add a MEL/BNE service to spread the demand. Being WP the experience varies greatly from personal intro by the CSM, J headphones, offer of drink through to nothing at all (standard with QF). I have seen numerous folk upgraded onboard to J by the CSM but never had this happen to myself so interesting as to what the deal is there. I assume they are WP1?

I decided to try both PR and MH and both were much better, although equipment was the same food and service was miles ahead, along with flights only being 50%-75% full meaning everyone could be spread out.

My work stipulates I must travel QF/PR so it is near impossible to try CX or MH (my sole MH flight was on my own dime and reimbursed as a once-off).

From what I see Philippine investment and tourism is booming so unsure of why QF treat this route with such contempt. Some of my SYD colleagues have even flown PR via MEL as they detest the return overnight flights with QF so much!

If it helps, get a classic reward one way to MNL and then get your MNL-SYD-MNL tickets there. You can get a Qantas issued ticket that takes you MNL-HKG-SYD return.
MNL-HKG-MNL is by CX on B777 or A330 and HKG-SYD-HKG is QF either A380 or nowadays B747. Hopefully your company will accept a Qantas issued ticket.

This is the route that I take 90% of the time.
Cheers

 

[Mrmaxwell]

The QF loads are indeed high to and from MNL. A look at the BITRE statistics shows that it is their best performing route in percentage of seats occupied, though as others always say it's the yields that matter.

Judging by the fares being charged I would assume yields are also best performing. SYD-MNL is more expensive than SYD-LAX on a regular basis lately excluding sales - eg. June 1<>June 8 return is showing as $2145 in whY - how does that make sense? (supply and demand of course). If demand is so high then surely an additional MEL-MNL service would be warranted. I know several colleagues who are taking this route monthly and that is just one company! Add to that the fact that the highly trumpeted 330 refresh is looking to hit QF19/20 last is a slap in the face.

5J that only operates MNL - SYD - MNL is another option.

Not an option for me due to company policy but my sister recently visited via 5J and had nothing but praise mainly due to on-time performance and scoring 3 seats to herself as the flight was 70% full (something that has not happened on QF19/20 in the 6 months I have been flying this route).

If it helps, get a classic reward one way to MNL and then get your MNL-SYD-MNL tickets there. You can get a Qantas issued ticket that takes you MNL-HKG-SYD return.
MNL-HKG-MNL is by CX on B777 or A330 and HKG-SYD-HKG is QF either A380 or nowadays B747. Hopefully your company will accept a Qantas issued ticket.

This is the route that I take 90% of the time.
Cheers

My company books via a corporate travel agent in AUS so not sure this would work - thanks for the tip though. I do see random fares via HKG using CX ex-SYD when QF19 is not operating however the fares seem to be very high and hard to slip under the booking company's nose!

I wouldn't even bother looking at the age of the 330's considering both PR and 5J plonk 9 across.

Not something I'd contemplate IMHO.

In theory correct but in practice both 5J and PR are rarely going to have 100% full flights so the chance of getting a spare seat next to you are high. As above this is nigh impossible on the QF service and add to the fact the bird is 25yrs old and the whY seats are hard as rock - 8 across mean stuff-all!

My next flight is June 1 on QF20 - wish me luck :shock:

 

[Melburnian1]

MrMaxwell, in fairness to QF, its A333 aircraft that typically operate on a number of Oz to southeast Asia routes including SYD - MNL - SYD are not '25 years old.' They vary in delivery dates from 31 October 2003 (VH-QPA) to 20 December 2005 (VH-QPJ) so a typical example will be 11 years old or so. Nonetheless, this makes them significantly older than PR and 5J's very modern A330s.

I agree mannej rather missed the point: with the exception of school holidays, just prior to Easter and in the few weeks prior to Christmas, 5J and PR are rarely full irrespective of their Australian route. On my last trip on PR ex and to MEL, I had three seats to myself which compares extremely well to QF where with average load factors of 90 to 98 per cent, one would have to be very fortunate in economy class to have a 'shadow.' Three narrow seats in economy to one's own is preferable to one slightly wider seat any day.

It is surprising that QF does not increase its frequency on SYD - MNL (or even introduce MEL - MNL) but the same criticism can be levelled at QF for routes like SYD-PVG, MEL-HKG, MEL - SIN, SYD -CGK and so on where it does not offer at least a daily own metal (not EK codeshare) frequency all year round. On some routes such as SYD - CGK, demand may simply not be there, but it is extraordinary that CX for instance can have three daily flights in each direction between MEL and HKG and have load factors typically above 85 per cent (including what I gather are quite a few passengers connecting to MNL and smaller numbers to CEB) but QF cannot even run daily from MEL to HKG.

To MNL, the two Filipino airlines typically have five (PR) and four or five (5J) return trips a week ex SYD, PR has three ex MEL and three ex the combined BNE/DRW route albeit the latter with A320s/ A321s not A330s, and yet QF continues to only operate four days a week. (I exclude QF group airlines JQ/3K via SIN as that is not either nonstop or on the one aircraft, but this is an option, albeit often a slow one and arguably not comfortable.)

QF has lately been boasting about its now profitable QFi division and how much it has expanded in the last little while (SYD - DFW as one example) but this is an airline that refuses to have many international own metal flights commence from MEL (not much smaller than SYD these days) and on growing routes like SYD - MNL with a fair few higher yielding business travellers cannot even be bothered to operate five, six or seven days a week.

Of course to and from growing PER, none of the above three airlines operate to or from MNL. This is a surprising omission, but PR tried it for a short period and withdrew.

Good luck with a 'shadow' on 1 June 2015!

 

[Mattg]

For reference, the average load factors between Australia and the Philippines in the last three months that statistics have been published for (December 2014/Jan/Feb 2015) are:

December 2014:
Cebu Pacific: 41.6% (inbound), 81.8% (outbound)
Philippine Airlines 61.7% (inbound), 92.3% (outbound)
Qantas: 71.2% (inbound), 94.3% (outbound)

January 2015:
Cebu Pacific 91.4% (inbound), 60.1% (outbound)
Philippine Airlines 92.2% (inbound), 63.1% (outbound)
Qantas 98.1% (inbound), 81.7% (outbound)

February 2015:
Cebu Pacific 69.2% (inbound), 43.1% (outbound)
Philippine Airlines 78.5% (inbound), 56.7% (outbound)
Qantas 97.8% (inbound), 88.4% (outbound)

https://www.bitre.gov.au/publicatio...al_airline_activity-monthly_publications.aspx

 

[Melburnian1]

Mattg, thank you and exactly my point. While you and I might not, quite a few airlines regard seat load factors (over the whole plane) of 88-90 per cent and above to be for all intents and purposes 'full.'

For instance, some airlines to and from Oz using A330s (CX and PR are two examples) block off six economy seats (typically H/K seats in the last three rows of whY) for crew rest so even on an A330 with about 360 seats (PR), that is two per cent of nominal seating capacity unavailable for passengers.

One other factor to bear in mind is that 5J only began flying MNL - SYD - MNL in September 2014 so as with most new entrants to a route, passenger numbers take time to increase. Many Australians may still not have heard of 5J, particularly since it only flies to one Australian airport, and yet per annum it now carries almost as many passengers as VA (and may overtake VA in a couple of years if the present very low Australian domestic passenger numbers growth continues) with 5J having a far more extensive international (largely regional) own metal network than VA is ever likely to have.

 

[mannej]

Melburnian1, I did not miss the point.

Relying on loads to be low is taking a gamble, I would not consider 9-across in a 330 regardless.

Each to their own, it is just like a number of members on here will not fly a 777 that seats 10-across in why.

YMMV.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Relying on loads to be low is taking a gamble, I would not consider 9-across in a 330 regardless.

YMMV.

Correct it is a gamble, however you are more likely to have a spare seat next to you on PR and 5J than on the sole QF flight to/from MNL. QF are certainly using branding and status to maximise numbers when the actual product is far from class-leading or value for money.

The QF A330s are only 11 years old on average but boy do they feel much older.

 

[whughes3]

I believe that QF's capacity into MNL is currently capped at 1350/week, so any increase in capacity would require changes to agreements at inter-government level.

 

[aikman]

I believe that QF's capacity into MNL is currently capped at 1350/week, so any increase in capacity would require changes to agreements at inter-government level.

Capacity limitations to the Philippines have recently been increased and QF now also have the rights to code share onwards from the Philippines. QF code on EK coming soon on MNL-DXB perhaps.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/avia...straliaphilippines-route-20150504-ggtq8b.html

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Capacity limitations to the Philippines have recently been increased and QF now also have the rights to code share onwards from the Philippines. QF code on EK coming soon on MNL-DXB perhaps.

Qantas set for greater competition on Australia-Philippines route

You would think if PR and 5J can make a go of ex-AUS flights to PH from multiple cities then QF can - right? Using QF logic they will probably add a third daily flight to SIN from SYD

 

[Mattg]

I must admit that I was surprised how high QF's loadings were on SYD-MNL. But if this is the case, it really makes you wonder why they don't increase capacity or re-instate BNE-MNL flights 1x weekly (for example) to complement the SYD services.

 

[Melburnian1]

Mattg, all jokes aside, at present does QF have spare A330s to run extra flights (or perhaps a better question: will it when the refurbishments are complete?) Naturally one extra flight from east coast Oz to SEAsia and return ties up an A330 effectively for 24 hours.

Utilisation of QFi ones (and the four 'domestic' ones configured for int flights as mannej likes to correctly point out) varies quite a bit from day to day as a few routes do not operate daily, including SYD - MNL.

 

[Mattg]

Mattg, all jokes aside, at present does QF have spare A330s to run extra flights (or perhaps a better question: will it when the refurbishments are complete?) Naturally one extra flight from east coast Oz to SEAsia and return ties up an A330 effectively for 24 hours.

Utilisation of QFi ones (and the four 'domestic' ones configured for int flights as mannej likes to correctly point out) varies quite a bit from day to day as a few routes do not operate daily, including SYD - MNL.

QF currently have 10 A330-300s flying 10 routes (2 of which are not daily - MNL is 4x weekly and CGK is 3x weekly, so this in effect is the equivalent of one route), though this will increase to 11 routes once they start flying BNE-NRT - meaning full aircraft utilisation. So yes, there is indeed a lack of "spare" aircraft at the moment, though QF do also have a number of A330-200s at their disposal.