What If.....

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jsd

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Qantas
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Just some food for thought here, But I'd like to pose a few questions to AFF: (I'm not suggesting anything)




What would happen if Qantas went belly up?


How would you feel about DJ moving up to Australia's Number 1 carrier?


What about TT moving up to number 2? :mrgreen:


Would Australia's International reach be cut significantly?


Would DJ/TT take advantage of a collapse and raise airfares?




I had heaps more questions in my head but I've had a blank :p

Just interested in what everyone thinks, go forth and discuss :D


Josh :p
 
It’d be just like after Ansett went down, though Qantas also owns Jetstar and I’m assuming you’d hypothesise that they’d go under too. So there’d be a lot of lost seats.

Regardless of how people felt, they’d have to embrace Virgin Blue if they wanted a loyalty program and lounge access, but I’m not sure Virgin Blue would be in a good spot to deal with the demand.

I look forward to what is sure to be a very long and detailed response from anat0l :)
 
Why me? :-|

If QF went down the tube tomorrow, well I'd be about 155k points out of pocket. Unlike DJ, from what I've heard, I don't think QFF points are held in trust. I'd also instantly lose my OWE status.

I'd say basically just what samh004 said: we'd have an Ansett like situation. People might get burnt with loss of points/lifetime subscriptions/lounge subscriptions/current bookings etc., we'd have some sort of semi- to psuedo-monopoly within Australia, but then everyone moves on. I mean, what else could you do?

If QF/JQ go under, then yeah DJ would be Australia's #1 carrier and flag carrier for that matter. If not DJ, would it be TT? I'll be well in my cold dead grave before that happens.

As for would DJ raise airfares, quite possibly - after all, they are a public company too that needs to answer to shareholders, but you'd hope that the monopoly position would not go to their heads as much as QF, so to speak. DJ certainly would be scrambling to find a lot more seats than it would have if QF/JQ went belly up; the only way that'll happen is through capital expenditure and/or raising fares to even up the supply/demand balance (don't forget there is a significant corporate market that DJ would need to pick up almost immediately if QF/JQ went down - even if DJ appropriate 20-50% of this market in the near future, the remainder would still be huge). I mean, what would you do if suddenly your demand is about 30-60% greater than your supply? I'm assuming DJ don't have huge reserves of planes available, and you can't just wheel out a fresh 737 at a click of the fingers. I guess they might start pulling off the VA 777s to help cope with domestic demand (i.e. try to work them almost around the clock). Then again, VA might be seeking immediate approvals for increases on all the void left behind by QF (or scrambling for high-capacity codeshare agreements).

Mind you, I don't know if the government would propose a similar tax that was levied to bail out AN workers of their benefits (the $10 seat tax or whatever it was), so at least in the short term airfares might increase artificially.

That's probably an odd thing that would be difficult to deal with: all the QF workers out of a job. I'm sure most people couldn't care less, but like the AN situation if no one will care they will be forced to care about it, one way or another. In many cases the QF FAs might be considered too old to be employed by DJ ;).

As for what I'd do next - I'd probably use Velocity only for domestic but not pursue status with them, unless they decide to join an alliance and/or the upcoming changes to Velocity are profound, or if Velocity will forge reciprocal agreements on FFPs with Skywards. Perhaps a lounge subscription, but that's it. Not really interested in flying TT - anytime soon or in the future.

As for international, Star Alliance.


Now the other scenario might be QF/JQ might be "supported" in a similar way that JL was held back from completely collapsing under. Mind you, in that case I'd still be tempted to move, since it'll probably mean QF won't fly to squat internationally and probably just might cut a significant portion of its domestic as well. Capital investment would probably cease, too, and that isn't good.

Bottom line is no use bawling and legal mumbo-jumbo if QF goes under. Just reposition your strategy. Detailed enough? :)
 
I would like to pose the question the other way around,what would happen if DJ went to the wall? I can't see TT having the resources ,financial and otherwise,to take over all the routes that DJ service so would we see a situation where the QF group of Qantas mainline and Jetstar took advantage of the situation and raised fares knowing that there was no competition?
Is the Australian market big enough for 4 players?
 
  • What would happen if Qantas went belly up?
  • How would you feel about DJ moving up to Australia's Number 1 carrier?
  • What about TT moving up to number 2? :mrgreen:
  • Would Australia's International reach be cut significantly?
  • Would DJ/TT take advantage of a collapse and raise airfares?
I'd be remembering the line "down the rails, not across the tracks"

The thought of having to fly DJ all the time would be enough to committ FF suicide. I'd actually consider flying international out of Australia and back in to avoid flying them permanently.

Say what you want about DJ, but I have the displeasure of flying them now and again for auditing reasons (that's as much as I can say about it, please don't enquire further).

You can bemoan QF as much as you like, but give me an airline with a global alliance with truckloads of FFP earning options, priority baggage, well trained staff, a catering operation that doesn't come across like a canteen, and lounges with real food (not something prepared by the same on-board school canteen).

On the earning question, I could credit all my flying to VS - but the earning rates required to retain top tier (Gold) simply aren't attainable for someone on my flying (~16-20 sectors/year, mainly dom). And ODU's aren't available, let alone a DOM class to ODU into that would make the option worth it.

And on-board is enough to make me scream. The cabin staff are generally sub-standard, aren't anywhere near as professional as they should be, and quite frankly make me want to scream. This is not withstanding there's no consistent availbility of AVOD, fleet with the majority of 737s which I absolutely loathe flying on, and the quality of the passengers on board make me want to remove my eyes from my skull.

Yes, that may have been a little snobbish of me that last line - but every dammed time I'm on a DJ flight I can't help but notice the absolute bogans and dregs of society on board. People who wear thongs on board, need a good wash, or think a tank top showing off all their tatoos, and disgusting habits (behavoural and personal) who all think this is perfectly acceptable for onboard a plane around other people.

And as for TT, gag me with a spoon. Seriously, if any of the above actually happened the flying game in Australia could be likened to Soviet and eastern block carriers many moons ago, and to a lesser extent the state of the Chinese domestic market and carrier quality today.

We'd become an aviation backwater quality wise, and I dare say there would be a number of large private and institutional investors with serious coin who'd pony up the coin to keep QF flying and fix whatever possible imagined scenairo might take the red roo out of the air - hopefully learning from some of their current and future mistakes/misdeeds to make it a better company, specially in terms of their customer focus.

Sorry, that was a bit of a mouthfull - but DJ drives me absolutely nuts. Flying them is my personal equlivilent of 17th century torture minus the horses pulling you limb from limb.
 
I would think that in this scenario a large number of aircraft would be available and easily leased across to DJ and TT if required. And hey, DJ already has an ex-QF CEO and a bunch of senior management so I'm sure it would suit them down to the ground!

Personally, not being a WP or SG I doubt I would notice the difference - I already struggle to spot the differences in my QF and DJ flights as it is.
 
I would think that in this scenario a large number of aircraft would be available and easily leased across to DJ and TT if required. And hey, DJ already has an ex-QF CEO and a bunch of senior management so I'm sure it would suit them down to the ground!

Would it be a legal scenario for DJ to "acquire" QF/JQ? Perhaps taking all the aircraft and what not but there will necessarily be staff downsizing, new contracts, etc. (basically get rid of all the legacy issues from QF but the extra fleet may come in handy).
 
Most of my QF flights are from ADL to either BNE, MEL or SYD to catch international, so I wouldn't be too concerned.

Thankfully with Ansett I used my points for a family holiday (a month before the collapse) from ADL-SYD-CBR-ADL so I only had 500 points in the bank..... :D
 
Would it be a legal scenario for DJ to "acquire" QF/JQ? Perhaps taking all the aircraft and what not but there will necessarily be staff downsizing, new contracts, etc. (basically get rid of all the legacy issues from QF but the extra fleet may come in handy).

Can you imagine rush-hour services in the golden triangle onboard DJ’s new A380’s :D
 
What a stupid bludddy hypothesis. That's all I need to say on this one.

JB
 
What a stupid bludddy hypothesis. That's all I need to say on this one.

JB

As unlikely as ansett collapsing? Or qantas creating an lcc to counteract falling market share? What-ifs are fun anyway :p
 
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Would it be a legal scenario for DJ to "acquire" QF/JQ? Perhaps taking all the aircraft and what not but there will necessarily be staff downsizing, new contracts, etc. (basically get rid of all the legacy issues from QF but the extra fleet may come in handy).

A merger could work...Virgin Roo anyone? :D
 
What a stupid bludddy hypothesis. That's all I need to say on this one.
And I will say a little more.

If Australian air travel was left to DJ/JQ/TT then I firmly believe that train and bus travel will become a lot more popular.

Not meaning to be rude but I saw the type of demographic that travels JQ in SIN earlier this evening (or last night depending on which way you look at it) and they do not strike me as the type of the people who will/can spend more on airfares. Let them stick to LCC and hopefully the rest of us have a choice of a premium carrier in Australia.
 
I would think that in this scenario a large number of aircraft would be available and easily leased across to DJ and TT if required. And hey, DJ already has an ex-QF CEO and a bunch of senior management so I'm sure it would suit them down to the ground!

BUT, does DJ have anywhere near the financial rewsources to manage taking over the planes, whether on lease or purchase (remember, that Qantas owns its aircraft, while, I believe, DJ leases a lot of theirs.)

As to the new management team: they are certainly more experience and I hope that they can drag DJ out of its morass, if it wishes to escape its LCC image. DJ has had a morbid case of mismanagement, with their fuel hedging policy/ability almost ludicrous in its degree of amateurism.

I agree with thewinchester regarding the difference between Qantas and Virgin Blue (and also his feeling that it will be a cold day in hell before I fly TT) - I've flown up to the Fraser Coast with DJ and the lack of professionalism in the staff, both on the ground and in the air, the tea trolley that is preceeded by the EFTPOS machine, and the overall tone of others flying, was more than enough to convince me to only ever fly them in case of utter necessity. They almost make RyanAir look good!
 
As to the new management team: they are certainly more experience and I hope that they can drag DJ out of its morass, if it wishes to escape its LCC image. DJ has had a morbid case of mismanagement, with their fuel hedging policy/ability almost ludicrous in its degree of amateurism.

I agree with thewinchester regarding the difference between Qantas and Virgin Blue (and also his feeling that it will be a cold day in hell before I fly TT) - I've flown up to the Fraser Coast with DJ and the lack of professionalism in the staff, both on the ground and in the air, the tea trolley that is preceeded by the EFTPOS machine, and the overall tone of others flying, was more than enough to convince me to only ever fly them in case of utter necessity. They almost make RyanAir look good!

1 flight with DJ and they make Ryanair look good?

I'm not sure where this 'bogans onboard' thing is coming from but it seems that DJ and QF pricing is much closer these days so these types of customers would be heading for JQ or TT.

I had to chuckle on my last qf flight Mel-Syd when the cabin crew couldn't make change for all the booze orders for dinner...perhaps an eftpos machine would help:D
 
....

I had to chuckle on my last qf flight Mel-Syd when the cabin crew couldn't make change for all the booze orders for dinner...perhaps an eftpos machine would help:D

I can see a similar problem on Jan 29 on JQ35
 
And I will say a little more.

If Australian air travel was left to DJ/JQ/TT then I firmly believe that train and bus travel will become a lot more popular.

Not meaning to be rude but I saw the type of demographic that travels JQ in SIN earlier this evening (or last night depending on which way you look at it) and they do not strike me as the type of the people who will/can spend more on airfares. Let them stick to LCC and hopefully the rest of us have a choice of a premium carrier in Australia.

I couldn't have said that better John



munitalP
 
1 flight with DJ and they make Ryanair look good?

I'm not sure where this 'bogans onboard' thing is coming from but it seems that DJ and QF pricing is much closer these days so these types of customers would be heading for JQ or TT.

I had to chuckle on my last qf flight Mel-Syd when the cabin crew couldn't make change for all the booze orders for dinner...perhaps an eftpos machine would help:D

They take credit card, the cost of doing an EFTPOS auth would wipe out the profitmon any sale if they used that.
 
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