what are your legal rights on re-entering Australia?

[Mal]

How do you know that no-one has declined to be filmed?

It wouldn't appear on television if someone told them that they were not to film them

Dave

I wasn't talking generally, I was talking specifically about me, in that they havn't tried to film me. There are signs up in the airports that tell you to tell them to buzz off if you want. The size of the sign has increased since the first ones, and also who you advise has also changed (originally it was customs, now it's the Border Security staff)

 

[medhead]

How do you know that no-one has declined to be filmed?

It wouldn't appear on television if someone told them that they were not to film them

Dave

They are the ones with the blurry faces. I assume if you refuse to be filmed they just blur out your face, this is quite common on border security.

 

[medhead]

Well thing is if you don't declare it and they happen to decide to search your stuff then they told me the onus is on me to prove it was purchased within Australia and if I can't they can confiscate it until I provide proof or if I can't provide proof then they can fine me for not declaring it and charge duty.

So how exactly would that work if I got selected for a search without declaring the camera next time? "Oh I declared that last time but they let me bring it into the country so it has already been imported legally", there is no paperwork to prove that so I don't like my chances on that one.

Bit hard to do that if the receipt is at my apartment in Houston though...

You're getting quiet emotive about this and maybe getting hung up of some obscure point that is not going to pass the commonsense test. The way it works is that you talk nicely to the customs people and use reason, that usually works in Australia.

I'm not sure which way your doing your ex-pat jobs. But lets assume that its from the USA to Oz as an expat, since your receipts seem to be there. For a start you don't have to declare stuff that isn't staying in Australia, like your macbook. You say you purchased it in the US, the reciept is in the US and you are returning to the US with the Macbook in X weeks.

Your camera, do you have it in a carry bag by chance? Do you think that a reasonable person of normal intelligence is going to be too concerned if you tell them that a camera, in a camera bag, that looks like it has been used and without any evidence of the original package, is in fact something that was given to you as a gift and is part of your belongings and that it normally travels with you. There is no need at all to mention what happened the first time you entered the country with the camera.

 

[jaseone]

You're getting quiet emotive about this and maybe getting hung up of some obscure point that is not going to pass the commonsense test. The way it works is that you talk nicely to the customs people and use reason, that usually works in Australia.

I think it must just be that the very first time I re-entered Australia I had the fear of God put in me by customs here, I'm an Australian citizen and do a lot of expat work in the USA. I actually bought my laptop while I was back in Australia on a break and took the receipt back to the States where it is with all my other similar paperwork.

My concern about the camera is that I did declare it as a gift and if the customs agent wasn't in a good mood at the time I would have had to pay duty on it (it is worth more than the allowable limit), of course I am always nice and courteous to all immigration and customs staff but there always seems to be a risk on duty unless you are fully prepared.

At the end of the day it is all about obeying the rules/laws so just have to grin and bear it...

 

[Mal]

They are the ones with the blurry faces. I assume if you refuse to be filmed they just blur out your face, this is quite common on border security.

I believe blury faces are only used on people who are facing trial at the time of compilation of the series - the show doesn't want to negatively portray (thus potentially cause a miscarriage of justice) for those who have not yet appeared in court. This is particularly important when a jury trial is required.

 

[medhead]

My concern about the camera is that I did declare it as a gift and if the customs agent wasn't in a good mood at the time I would have had to pay duty on it (it is worth more than the allowable limit), of course I am always nice and courteous to all immigration and customs staff but there always seems to be a risk on duty unless you are fully prepared.

At the end of the day it is all about obeying the rules/laws so just have to grin and bear it...

I don't think you'll have any problems if it looks like you are using the stuff. Certainly, I expect you had to declare the camera the first time.

The only story I know about of people having problems is my cousin. But he is a complete DH (worse that me even). He brought some expensive watch, rolex or something, took it O/S (duty free purchase). When he noticed a scratch he put it back in the box (maybe even in the duty free bag). So on re-entry customs thought it was new, his point was it was in the box to be returned due to defect. The duty free shop people even got called in by customs. But, of course, he argued some much and he is such an illogical nob that the duty free shop guy just gave up and agreed to pay the tax.

The point being he could have avoided the whole situation by putting the watch onto his wrist. :shock:


edit: Blury faces - didn't think of that, thanks

 

[kpc]

departing travellers

Carrying expensive items

If you are departing Australia with expensive items (such as computers, cameras and video cameras) and you intend to bring them back to Australia, register these items on the Goods Exported in Passenger Baggage form at the end of this section. You cannot use this form if you intend claiming a refund under the Tourist Refund Scheme. The goods registered must be easily identifiable; serial numbers etc must be included.
If possible, goods are to be carried in hand baggage and the officer who performs your immigration clearance at the outwards control point will check the goods and validate your form by signing and stamping it. If items are too large to be carried and must be included in your hold baggage, contact the closest Customs office for advice on where the goods may be inspected.
Once registered, you do not need to declare these articles to Customs on your return to Australia but you should keep the registration form handy in case Customs has any questions.

Easy solution for bringing expensive stuff back to Oz....I registered my laptop when I first bought it here and took it OS.
http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/b263gst1.pdfGoods exported in passenger baggage form

 

[equus]

departing travellers
Easy solution for bringing expensive stuff back to Oz....I registered my laptop when I first bought it here and took it OS.
Goods exported in passenger baggage form

Ditto have used this in the past. Don't try it with large numbers of items (like cameras and lots of lenses), as serial numbers need to be inspected, and if you try this in the outgoing passenger queue, you will not be popular (with customs or other passengers!).

When I did this, I arrived at the airport very early, and went downstairs (BNE) to the actual customs office, where they were very obliging, and went through everything (I had a fairly long typed list...)

 

[jessica1]

Jessica, your posting style in this thread suggests to me that you have some level of experience in this field. Do you work for an associated Australian government agency that has jurisdiction in this field? Or perhaps researching for some purpose?

My experience is as a passenger and I would have always expected there are different levels of search, rather than it being an all-or-nothing exercise as you have suggested. For example, I would not expect that every person whose bags are searched would also be subjected to an internal body search. I was suggesting that the process of undergoing a search could be drawn out (duration) as they progressively move from a rummage through bag contents, to detailed inspection of bags and contents, to personal frisk/pat down, to strip search to x-ray/ultrasound etc. I guess there is a point at which they either need the passenger's permission or to arrest and have a court directive to undertake certain levels of the search process.

It is my expectation that refusing to answer questions is likely to increase suspicion (what is this person tying to hide?) and hence may result in a more thorough process and longer duration of arrival formalities. While it may not be a legal requirement to answer some of the questions, I generally chose to answer all questions honestly and quickly as I believe I have nothing to hide and want to get through the border process quickly and with a minimum of pain/embarrassment.

That's not what I was saying.
What I was saying is that if someone is already suspected and selected for a 100% search they will get just that, not less because they answered nicely. They will still complete the search.

To upgrade the searches they need reasonable cause to do so.
And yes I have now had legal advice on this issue.

Refusing to answer non compulsory questions, is not, in itself reasonable cause for something like an internal search.

 

[Mal]

Refusing to answer non compulsory questions, is not, in itself reasonable cause for something like an internal search.

I've refused to answer a question before. It basically went like this:

"How much do you earn".
I replied with "Do I have to answer that question".
They indicated I didn't.

They then came at it from a different angle:

"In xx_xx (my job industry) at xx_xx_x (my employer), would you say your income was at the higher end of staff, in the middle or towards the lower"

I chose to answer that question with a fairly vague answer. They moved on to other questions

 

[jessica1]

Exactly :!: - for the most part they aren't going to be bovvered. But that doesn't mean "they" couldn't crack the encryption if they really, really, badly wanted - the risk would have to justify the expense.

BTW 2 or 3 pass encryption doesn't neccessarily make it more secure. All sorts of things can go wrong in doing this, for a start the combined function may actually weaken the strength by turning out to be a really simple overall function. Remember the cracker only knows Crypttext = (function)x(plaintext), they only have to break the overall function not the 2 or 3 functions. If your trusting some open source encryption, they'd have to be really good not to stuff it up. KISS.

Anyway, my final word seeing as this has been discussed to death. (sorry don't remember reading that thread )

What about bestcrypt and other euro based encryption programs?
Any good?
I'd like a good one to keep my internet banking details on my laptop on.

 

[medhead]

What about bestcrypt and other euro based encryption programs?
Any good?
I'd like a good one to keep my internet banking details on my laptop on.

My comments are really only in relation to customs, who most likely aren't interested in your internet banking details.

For keeping the great unwashed a bay I'd expect any implementation of RSA with a strong password will be adequate.

 

[rwatts]

What about bestcrypt and other euro based encryption programs?
Any good?
I'd like a good one to keep my internet banking details on my laptop on.

Rather than disk or filesystem encryption, perhaps an open source application such as KeePass Password Safe might suit. It's primarily intended for storing passwords but the entire database is encrypted including usernames, notes, etc. AES and Twofish algorithms are available.

Such an application can have a low profile on a computer and not stick out like a sore thumb as soon the computer is turned on.

Richard.

 

[jessica1]

My comments are really only in relation to customs, who most likely aren't interested in your internet banking details.

For keeping the great unwashed a bay I'd expect any implementation of RSA with a strong password will be adequate.

I contacted Bestcrypt in relation to the ability of Customs to decrypt one of their containers, it's a Euro based company, not a US company therefore say they have no backdoor.

Here is what they said, let me know what you think:


----

Unfortunately, nothing can be done here. If you lose you password, there is no any way to decrypt your data back. This is so because of the following reasons:
a. BestCrypt products use strong encryption algorithms. There are no any known ways to break the algorithms, except the brute-force attack. But even if you can combine all computing power in the world for a brute-force attack, it will require many billions years to break a 256-bit key algorithm.
b. We didn't insert any "back (or trap) doors" to the BestCrypt software that would allow recovering the information about the password. Our government does not bind us to insert any "backdoors" to our products, and we ourselves strongly believe that only an owner of data should decide who is allowed to access it.
To help our users to answer the question about possible backdoor (and not only for that), we created a freeware document named 'BestCrypt Development Kit', you can download it from our download page. BDK contains source codes for all the encryption and hash algorithms, so you can make sure yourself if they contain any backdoors or not.

 

[jaffa]

In 2000 I had my first problem with re-entering oz with customs. I had never had a problem before this, and have an extensive travel history.

They pulled me aside for a full screen after flying back from a RTW business trip with my last dept point being the US. I never did find out why. It took 4 hr's and involved a strip search which l objected to.

On the next 5 international trips from 2001 to 2003 every time l re-entered the same thing happened to me and each time l was getting angryier and more annoyed:evil:.
You don't know just how embarrasing and demoralising this can be. They really do treat you like you have done something wrong. They are not friendly or polite and physicly it can be very painfull. I hate the way they joke with each other about it in a way that you can hear. They seem to want to belittle you and make you feel as uncomfortable as they can, regardless of how polite and conformist you are to them.

After the 3rd time l spoke to a close barrister friend who advised me that it was probally just random. After the 4th he decided to write to customs as my representative and asked for clarification on my position and was given a standard form responce of their rights to detain for any reason in the course of undisclosed investigations.

After the 5th time he sent a much more forcefull letter which required a please explain and cc'd the letter to the customs minister. The custom's minister reply informed that he would investigate and reply in full.

When this was completed in late 2003, he responded that once a person was put through a full screen that this is recorded on the customs data base and sends a flag notice to customs on all future re-entry's.
He also stated that a strip search which is supposed to be uncommon and needs special permission, in my case was not carried out according to normal protocol as l did not meet the requirements for it's use. He could not explain why l was put through it in the first place.

He said when a person has been through a strip search a much more serious flag is raised on your record and that when added to the full search flag will almost always result in a full screen in future from any future re-entry. The records do not carry reasons why the strip/and full search occurs just that they happened.

He also said customs must perform a certain number of search's on all incomming flight's or entry by sea as a matter of set policy and l may have been caught up in this originally.

He appologised but would not guarentee that this would not occur again however he would make a note on my file.

It has never occured again re-entering Australia.

But everytime l travel to the US l have SSSS every single flight including all domestic flights. So l don't go back to the US now if l can help it, l believe we share our records with US customs and homeland security.
I was being pulled in the US 2 or 3 times in a day on every connecting flight which had a different flight no or a change of airline, it was on every boarding pass:evil:. They would even pull me from the gate if l did not have to go through security for a change of aircraft. It would add hr's to my traveling time and resulted in heaps of missed conections and financual losses, which nobody's pays for, even if you are flying F.:evil:

So whatever happens to you in customs in Australia it stays on your record. Customs officers can see this record and if you are flaged it will push it in their face and demand attention. Some flags mean they have to pull you out regardless even if they were wrong in the first place. The more they do this, the harder it becomes for the traveler. It's almost like a spiral.

Add to this the fact they have a quota to achieve on every flight from anywhere, if you have been pulled once your chances of being pulled again are much higher.

I now do not travel without the custom's ministers letter, it stays in my passport travel holder. So now when they take it away for private inspection l know they see it. It is becomming well worn so l know they do open it.

 

[medhead]

I contacted Bestcrypt in relation to the ability of Customs to decrypt one of their containers, it's a Euro based company, not a US company therefore say they have no backdoor.

Here is what they said, let me know what you think:

Seriously, that all sounds pretty correct. Just I'm not on about that, I'm going on about a conspriacy theory so:
They would say that wouldn't they

 

[Happy Dude]

....And yes I have now had legal advice on this issue.

Refusing to answer non compulsory questions, is not, in itself reasonable cause for something like an internal search.

Any chance you might divulge said legal advice for our benefit? I'm assuming it's more comprehensive than your last sentence. Clarification of "non compulsory questions" and "reasonable cause" would help too....

 

[jessica1]

In 2000 I had my first problem with re-entering oz with customs. I had never had a problem before this, and have an extensive travel history.

They pulled me aside for a full screen after flying back from a RTW business trip with my last dept point being the US. I never did find out why. It took 4 hr's and involved a strip search which l objected to.

On the next 5 international trips from 2001 to 2003 every time l re-entered the same thing happened to me and each time l was getting angryier and more annoyed:evil:.
You don't know just how embarrasing and demoralising this can be. They really do treat you like you have done something wrong. They are not friendly or polite and physicly it can be very painfull. I hate the way they joke with each other about it in a way that you can hear. They seem to want to belittle you and make you feel as uncomfortable as they can, regardless of how polite and conformist you are to them.

After the 3rd time l spoke to a close barrister friend who advised me that it was probally just random. After the 4th he decided to write to customs as my representative and asked for clarification on my position and was given a standard form responce of their rights to detain for any reason in the course of undisclosed investigations.

After the 5th time he sent a much more forcefull letter which required a please explain and cc'd the letter to the customs minister. The custom's minister reply informed that he would investigate and reply in full.

When this was completed in late 2003, he responded that once a person was put through a full screen that this is recorded on the customs data base and sends a flag notice to customs on all future re-entry's.
He also stated that a strip search which is supposed to be uncommon and needs special permission, in my case was not carried out according to normal protocol as l did not meet the requirements for it's use. He could not explain why l was put through it in the first place.

He said when a person has been through a strip search a much more serious flag is raised on your record and that when added to the full search flag will almost always result in a full screen in future from any future re-entry. The records do not carry reasons why the strip/and full search occurs just that they happened.

He also said customs must perform a certain number of search's on all incomming flight's or entry by sea as a matter of set policy and l may have been caught up in this originally.

He appologised but would not guarentee that this would not occur again however he would make a note on my file.

It has never occured again re-entering Australia.

But everytime l travel to the US l have SSSS every single flight including all domestic flights. So l don't go back to the US now if l can help it, l believe we share our records with US customs and homeland security.
I was being pulled in the US 2 or 3 times in a day on every connecting flight which had a different flight no or a change of airline, it was on every boarding pass:evil:. They would even pull me from the gate if l did not have to go through security for a change of aircraft. It would add hr's to my traveling time and resulted in heaps of missed conections and financual losses, which nobody's pays for, even if you are flying F.:evil:

So whatever happens to you in customs in Australia it stays on your record. Customs officers can see this record and if you are flaged it will push it in their face and demand attention. Some flags mean they have to pull you out regardless even if they were wrong in the first place. The more they do this, the harder it becomes for the traveler. It's almost like a spiral.

Add to this the fact they have a quota to achieve on every flight from anywhere, if you have been pulled once your chances of being pulled again are much higher.

I now do not travel without the custom's ministers letter, it stays in my passport travel holder. So now when they take it away for private inspection l know they see it. It is becomming well worn so l know they do open it.

What steps did they take when you verbally refused to allow a strip search?

Normally to upgrade to that they need reasonable cause.
Dog sits, drug traces etc.

 

[jaffa]

The first time, my attitude was l had done nothing wrong so just go along with it and everything will be ok, be polite, be forthcoming, be honest.

When they told me that they wanted to do the strip search, it was then l began to get frightened about what that meant and what they would do , l had heard the story's about these things but had no first hand knowledge. I at no time refused.
They informed me that if l refused l would be arrested for failing to comply with a lawfull customs directive under such and such section of such and such law and that l would be handed over to the federal police.
So l complyed.

You have to realise how intimidating all this is. They take you away from the main customs area to these offices that are all lined up. They are almost bare except for a desk and chairs. They leave you in there by yourself. Then they start asking you all these questions which don't seem to have any bearing on anything. At no time do they tell you whats wrong, what you have supposed to have done or why they have picked you. They keep you totally in the dark about everything.

I took the attitude that if l did everything they required and gave them no problem then everything would be okay.

It was not until l spoke to my barrister friend (3rd time) that I found out that l could refuse and that it then changed to their weight of eveidence how and what happens next.

He told me they would try to get you to do everything they could of your own free will. He said they rely on the average person not knowing the system. They trick you into doing things out of fear. They try and make you frightened.
He told me l had acted just the way the want you to.

The last time, l did refuse. It did take me a lot of courage to do this. They kept me in a room for 5 hour's at Syd airport trying to change my mind. They let me go without any explanation. I was livid, I demanded that they charge me with something or let me go.

At no time did they ever tell me why l had been picked. But they kept saying they knew l had been through this before. Like it meant l was guilty of something. They kept asking why it had happened to me before. I kept telling them l did not know, they never told me.

The only thing l ever found out was from the custom's minister. He said l should never have been strip searched in the first place. There was nothing on the records to indicate why l had been targeted. It was that bit that drew the appology. He explains how one thing leads to another.

There were no drug dog's that l ever seen.
They did take tests of my bags, but never told me of any results.
The first time there were around 6 others that were pulled out as well. All from first class.
I had to wait for ages for the strip search, they said there were lots of people before me.
The only thing l could ever think of was that 2 of the other people who were picked checked in right before me in LAX. We were all in first class.
They did ask me if l knew them, but that was it.
Maybe our bags touched or something during check in.

 

[jessica1]

The first time, my attitude was l had done nothing wrong so just go along with it and everything will be ok, be polite, be forthcoming, be honest.

When they told me that they wanted to do the strip search, it was then l began to get frightened about what that meant and what they would do , l had heard the story's about these things but had no first hand knowledge. I at no time refused.
They informed me that if l refused l would be arrested for failing to comply with a lawfull customs directive under such and such section of such and such law and that l would be handed over to the federal police.
So l complyed.

You have to realise how intimidating all this is. They take you away from the main customs area to these offices that are all lined up. They are almost bare except for a desk and chairs. They leave you in there by yourself. Then they start asking you all these questions which don't seem to have any bearing on anything. At no time do they tell you whats wrong, what you have supposed to have done or why they have picked you. They keep you totally in the dark about everything.

I took the attitude that if l did everything they required and gave them no problem then everything would be okay.

It was not until l spoke to my barrister friend (3rd time) that I found out that l could refuse and that it then changed to their weight of eveidence how and what happens next.

He told me they would try to get you to do everything they could of your own free will. He said they rely on the average person not knowing the system. They trick you into doing things out of fear. They try and make you frightened.
He told me l had acted just the way the want you to.

The last time, l did refuse. It did take me a lot of courage to do this. They kept me in a room for 5 hour's at Syd airport trying to change my mind. They let me go without any explanation. I was livid, I demanded that they charge me with something or let me go.

At no time did they ever tell me why l had been picked. But they kept saying they knew l had been through this before. Like it meant l was guilty of something. They kept asking why it had happened to me before. I kept telling them l did not know, they never told me.

The only thing l ever found out was from the custom's minister. He said l should never have been strip searched in the first place. There was nothing on the records to indicate why l had been targeted. It was that bit that drew the appology. He explains how one thing leads to another.

There were no drug dog's that l ever seen.
They did take tests of my bags, but never told me of any results.
The first time there were around 6 others that were pulled out as well. All from first class.
I had to wait for ages for the strip search, they said there were lots of people before me.
The only thing l could ever think of was that 2 of the other people who were picked checked in right before me in LAX. We were all in first class.
They did ask me if l knew them, but that was it.
Maybe our bags touched or something during check in.

Did you barrister say anything in regards to the weight of evidence needed regarding the strip search?
Are customs allowed to do it as part of their due course, or do they have to apply for any special permission if you refuse.