Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[justinbrett]

So a Sunday (edit) start for JQ.
QF delayed until March 2027.

From EF article

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/western-sydney-airport-qantas-jetstar-flights

A lounge with that level of traffic? Absolutely dreaming.

Also QF doesn’t build lounges for JQ flights. At places like OOL they have the “open one hour before QF services” to limit use to JQ pax.

 

[aamslfc]

The new flights will go on sale at 10am on Wednesday. Special sale fares will be available from $59 on Jetstar, $99 in Qantas economy and $299 for business class to Melbourne or Brisbane.

Took QF quite a while past 10am to update the website with the sale fares, but they're finally up. Not the most exciting route or offering, but for a few hours on a Sunday arvo it'd be silly to say no to some cheap extra SCs right before my membership year ends.

I'm not surprised the QF Group are taking baby steps to WSI, but I find these launch flights to be quite underwhelming.

 

[Saab34]

If forward bookings are good and JQ does ok, they might increase with A220/737 flights before start and load more flights after March. They have a huge window here before they even start ops to test the market.

I agree that a daily service would be the minimum, bit strange they are going with 4/weekly. It’s clear it’s all about Jetstar first up to drive the traffic.

 

[aamslfc]

If forward bookings are good and JQ does ok, they might increase with A220/737 flights before start and load more flights after March. They have a huge window here before they even start ops to test the market.

I agree that a daily service would be the minimum, bit strange they are going with 4/weekly. It’s clear it’s all about Jetstar first up to drive the traffic.

I sure hope so. That inaugural JQ flight is almost full, but I fear that outside of peak periods/school holidays, you'd struggle to fill a weekly Jetstream 32.

Of course, it also depends on the market itself... and given that the catchment for this airport is hardly cashed-up (or at least, incredibly sensitive to cost pressures), it's probably not surprising the airlines have been so hesitant in throwing capacity and routes at the new airport.

I guess patience is a virtue; these early stages are all about people sussing out the new airport, but in a year's time we'll know if there actually is a market for WSI that isn't built entirely around curiosity and curfew-busting.

 

[Denali]

I sure hope so. That inaugural JQ flight is almost full, but I fear that outside of peak periods/school holidays, you'd struggle to fill a weekly Jetstream 32.

Of course, it also depends on the market itself... and given that the catchment for this airport is hardly cashed-up (or at least, incredibly sensitive to cost pressures), it's probably not surprising the airlines have been so hesitant in throwing capacity and routes at the new airport.

I guess patience is a virtue; these early stages are all about people sussing out the new airport, but in a year's time we'll know if there actually is a market for WSI that isn't built entirely around curiosity and curfew-busting.

Do you have any idea how much people in the west spend in tolls, parking, fuel and time to/from mascot? I think the biggest problem for the people of the west is to get over the mindset that the airport is in the city and make sure they book and show up at the correct airport

I imagine lots of westies will take advantage of a Sydney West airport for their kids holidays or long weekends, sporting trips etc, especially once public transport is improved for access.

 

[dajop]

I guess patience is a virtue; these early stages are all about people sussing out the new airport, but in a year's time we'll know if there actually is a market for WSI that isn't built entirely around curiosity and curfew-busting.

If AVV can support 4xdaily AVV-SYD flights (albeit with an opaque level of subsidy), I am sure WSI, with a larger catchment, can eventually support at least 4xdaily WSI-MEL flights (with an opaque level of subsidy). These things all take time to build up.

 

[http_x92]

With these amount of flights, definitely no QF Lounge to start off with I suppose and looks more likely to be quite a while away.

Personally Im interested with trying it out... only a 25-30 minute drive away. Gonna have to see what the parking rates look like tho.

 

[moa999]

looks more likely to be quite a while away.

Tend to agree.
Even with the Qantas schedule added in March you have no more than 150 people in domestic departures at any time

Probably don't need much more than a single cafe for that, so probably a lot of boarded up retail and food outlets for a while as well.

 

[Saab34]

With the lack of departures I wonder if they might cordon off a large chunk of the domestic departures area to avoid people wandering around.

 

[HS-TQE]

I'd suspect this is NOT what the WSI executives initially wanted for opening day.

I'm sure WSI would have wanted a few more long-haul services from other international carriers, some 'token' QF mainline services and being successfully able to (break through Bain playing hard-ball) to attract some 'token' VA services for 'some' domestic competition in WSI's opening season.

Saying that outside events can change things very quickly, the Iran war and fuel situation may have played some role, but there would've been other minor factors affecting WSI's launch to what it is now with the 4 carriers and the less than ideal opening schedules.

 

[aamslfc]

Do you have any idea how much people in the west spend in tolls, parking, fuel and time to/from mascot? I think the biggest problem for the people of the west is to get over the mindset that the airport is in the city and make sure they book and show up at the correct airport

Yes - I'm one of them... and currently I'd still prefer SYD to WSI.

I still have to pay tolls, parking, fuel, and waste time in traffic to/from WSI. In fact, with WestConnex it's effectively the same time from home to SYD as it is from home to WSI, give or take five mins. Basically, if I chuck a left I get to one, chuck a right I get to the other.

At least with SYD, I also have easy bus and train access - within walking distance with a suitcase - to get to the CBD and connect with Airport trains. WSI has none of that (and won't for a very long time).

Ordinarily I'd say I'm in the minority, but I've seen lots of coverage of locals much closer to the airport complaining that their access to the airport is limited, with an over-reliance on car travel on congested roads (toll and non-toll), and public transport bordering on dysfunctional.

I imagine lots of westies will take advantage of a Sydney West airport for their kids holidays or long weekends, sporting trips etc, especially once public transport is improved for access.

Unlikely to happen with cough, infrequent buses for the first two years, and cough trains that go nowhere sometime this decade.

If they still have to get in the car and pay tolls/petrol/parking, then it's probably easier to keep going to Mascot, where all the airlines fly to/from with frequencies, timings, and connections that are far more convenient.

Yes, some Westies will take advantage of Badgerys Creek, but I suspect it won't be nearly as many as expected for a long time.

 

[torks]

I suspect Qantas is keeping their cards close to their chest. Using jetstar to get a feel for demand and then also using the bare minimum of flights to be able to hold the cards in terms of negotiating lower landing fees/subsidies to fly there.

We know Qantas negotiated a significant payroll tax discount/nsw government sunsidy to keep the headquarters in Mascot. Realistically they were never going to move. I wouldn't put it past them to be negotiating for more government cash before starting what they are likely going to do anyways.

 

[elanshin]

Probably also waiting for more a220s. This seem like an a220 sized plane route to kick things off (or as more 321XLRs roll in have some spare 737s do some runs ).