Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[elanshin]

Correct about even split between Western Sydney and rest of greater Sydney.

Around 85K all up.

So definitely not 2-3 times as claimed.

I thought we were still importing young NZers at a very fast rate (as it's a very real brain drain problem there for them). It's supposedly the among the most immigration from NZ we've ever had.

 

[kamchatsky]

Nope, slum class only on the A320s

Better than NO flights to NZ though. I suspect that NZ put a minimum schedule out to qualify for WSI subsidies from the government?

When will QF/JQ announce their schedules?

 

[Aeryn]

So definitely not 2-3 times as claimed.

The last census would disagree with you. ABS says that 85k of greater Sydney residents were born in NZ, but there are 157k (includes the 85k) with NZ ancestry; and highest concentration of NZ born residents in NSW remain in Sydney's eastern suburbs and inner-city areas.

Recent ANU noted that whilst Blacktown is the suburb with the highest number of NZ born residents, the next 3 with most Kiwis are Mosman (north), Randwick (East) and Port Macquarie (far north).

I'm not saying there isnt a market in Western Sydney for cheap NZ flights, hence Air NZ offering only a domestic single class aircraft; but demand for NZ flights will still be greater at SYD where you have a choice of J or Y cabin on most flights (and even F if you choose EK or the QF JFK flight).

 

[SYD]

The last census would disagree with you. 85k of greater Sydney residents born in NZ, but there are 157k (includes the 85k) with NZ ancestry.

Highest concentration of NZ born residents remain in Sydney's eastern suburbs and inner-city areas. Yes Blacktown is the suburb with the highest number of NZ born but the next 3 with most Kiwis are Mosman (north), Randwick (East) and Port Macquarie (far north).

I'm not saying there isnt a market in Western Sydney for cheap NZ flights, hence Air NZ offering only a domestic single class aircraft; but demand for NZ flights will still be greater at SYD where you have a choice of J or Y cabin on most flights (and even F if you choose EK or the QF JFK flight).

Where are you getting those numbers?

In the meantime, you also have to factor in a bunch of Pacific Islanders (there’s a LOT in WS), who could well be happy to fly via AKL.

 

[AuSammy]

The last census would disagree with you. 85k of greater Sydney residents born in NZ, but there are 157k (includes the 85k) with NZ ancestry.

Highest concentration of NZ born residents remain in Sydney's eastern suburbs and inner-city areas. Yes Blacktown is the suburb with the highest number of NZ born but the next 3 with most Kiwis are Mosman (north), Randwick (East) and Port Macquarie (far north).

I'm not saying there isnt a market in Western Sydney for cheap NZ flights, hence Air NZ offering only a domestic single class aircraft; but demand for NZ flights will still be greater at SYD where you have a choice of J or Y cabin on most flights (and even F if you choose EK or the QF JFK flight).

I specifically referred to New Zealanders. My post did not discuss relevance to SYD or hereditary.

It was in confirmation of @SYD observation.

I am over the discussion of some peoples preference to travel from SYD and knocking the possibilities of WSI

2021 People in Greater Sydney who were born in New Zealand, Census Country of birth QuickStats | Australian Bureau of Statistics

www.abs.gov.au

 

[Aeryn]

Where are you getting those numbers?

Australian bureau of statistics (ABS) using 2021 census data. And a 2025 Australian National University (ANU) Paper.

In the meantime, you also have to factor in a bunch of Pacific Islanders (there’s a LOT in WS), who could well be happy to fly via AKL.

But the OP said NZ not wider pacific islanders. There may be heaps of pacific islanders but the post claimed there were more kiwis in Western Sydney than elsewhere in NSW but that isn't the case.

Of the Kiwis in NSW more of those of Maori descent are in the West; but we were talking about Kiwis as a whole, not just those who identify as Maori.

Like i said Im not saying there isn't a market, but to claim the market is bigger than those who would use SYD is just not true. Given the huge number of flights to NZ everyday, if they thought WSI was going to be bigger for NZ then more flights would be going from there and not just cattle class.

 

[jase05]

if they thought WSI was going to be bigger for NZ then more flights would be going from there and not just cattle class.

It’s day 1
Let’s see how things look in 5-10 years time

 

[SYD]

Like i said Im not saying there isn't a market, but to claim the market is bigger than those who would use SYD is just not true. Given the huge number of flights to NZ everyday, if they thought WSI was going to be bigger for NZ then more flights would be going from there and not just cattle class.

Don’t think anyone has said it’s a bigger market. That would completely ignore all the business travellers slogging back and fourth across the Tasman (no different to those road warriors doing the Oz Triangle routes each week).

But there is a significant Kiwi and greater Pacific Islander communities out west who probably will be very happy with the service. Plus there’s also a growing business traffic related to the Aerotropolis. I guess we’ll see what the passenger number are like.

 

[dajop]

It’s day 1
Let’s see how things look in 5-10 years time

Especially with NZ’s fleet issues which should be resolved by then (5 years time) . Perhaps.

 

[justinbrett]

WSI to AKL might be good for the deportations

 

[SYD]

WSI to AKL might be good for the deportations

It’s slightly quicker to get to SYD from Villawood..

 

[luxury-lizard]

Just noticed when doing some "what if" searches for award seats on SQ using AC points that many award option depart/arrive at WSI. Might be a way for other airlines to fill seats.

 

[dairyfloss]

Just noticed when doing some "what if" searches for award seats on SQ using AC points that many award option depart/arrive at WSI. Might be a way for other airlines to fill seats.

I wonder if we'll start seeing some of these (and similar to/from WSI) in the travel mistakes thread!

 

[Aeryn]

For a while when you would search flight to MEL on QF they would naughtily include AVV flights. Thankfully that nonsense stopped about 18 months later, they must have got lots of complaints, AVV is not practical for a trip to Melbourne CBD just like WSI is not practical for a visit to Sydney CBD.

So hopefully when you search for flight to SYD you will only see SYD flights. They could introduce a new code for greater SYD that includes both SYD and WSI as seen on some travel sites that have NYC (and see LGA and JFK) or LON (and see LHR, LGW, LCY) but I'll be miffed if in searching for SYD the results are polluted with WSI flights.

 

[dajop]

Ah well there's always those who book a flight to YQY which even less practical for a visit to the Sydney CBD we're talking about on this thread

 

[Warragul]

They could introduce a new code for greater SYD that includes both SYD and WSI as seen on some travel sites that have NYC (and see LGA and JFK) or LON (and see LHR, LGW, LCY) but I'll be miffed if in searching for SYD the results are polluted with WSI flights.

I reckon seraches for SYD will include WSI they will for a while until it becomes widely known (outside of Australia mainly) that WSI exists. Are you miffed that flight searches for JFK on the qantas website include LGA and EWR or is having all the options on one screen better?If the airport is clearly shown the I'd vote for all of the choices, but understand why some wouldn't

Who knows those polluted flights might be a better proposition for some.

 

[moa999]

According to this IATA page SYD does double duty as a Metropolitan code and a specific airport.

Airline and Airport Code Search

Official directory of IATA codes used by airlines and airports, including IATA 3-letter and 2-letter codes.

www.iata.org

Surprised NZ announced day before holidays, generally a bit of a media black hole.

 

[Aeryn]

I search by airporr code, having previously used LGA, JFK and EWR i know i prefer to fly from JFK cause its a simpler and easier commute from where i stay and has nicer lounges for a OWE.

So if i type JFK dont gove me EWR (which isnt even in NYC, its a 4 connection ride to Jersey - 2 subways, nj transit plus air train), if i type SYD give me only SYD not WSI or NTL, if I type MEL dont give me AVV.

There needs to be a tick-box to include /exclude "nearby" airports, i dont consider WSI even remotely near SYD. If i search for BNE i dont expect to see OOL flights same thing.

 

[aamslfc]

I'd take day 1 pricing with a grain of salt. For example AY's day one pricing for MEL-BKK-HEL wasn't that attractive either.

You can't run *sales* and promos against a discounted base price.

I mean, SQ launched with extremely competitive sale fares which a) were almost on par with pre-COVID fares, and b) were incredible value given SQ's recent pricing structure.

I also thought AY's launch fares for MEL-BKK were pretty good in J, but I guess that's a bit more subjective.

As for base price, NZ's hardly that much cheaper than QF, and the alleged "discounted" part equates to a road toll outbound and a credit card processing fee inbound.

Some discount on the base price, indeed.

 

[aamslfc]

Better than NO flights to NZ though.

I mean, did Western Sydney residents want flights to NZ?

I'd have thought the locals would prefer a nicely-timed Bogan Bus to Bali (but I guess this depends on bilateral rights).

It'll be interesting to see if a) NZ overcome their ridiculous fleet issues to run the flights, b) WSI has the petrol to fill A320 tanks, and c) if loads are ok over the summer holidays.

I suspect that NZ put a minimum schedule out to qualify for WSI subsidies from the government?

Probably that, and low expected early patronage.

When will QF/JQ announce their schedules?

When pigs fly over the white elephant, presumably.