"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[JohnK]

I'll leave it to the experts to debate the merits of this latest change but I wasn't too far wrong.

Stick to taking discounts for points earned shopping instead of transferring them to Qantas in the hope that I can get Classic awards when I want not when Qantas decides I should get them.

 

[Mr H]

I'll leave it to the experts to debate the merits of this latest change but I wasn't too far wrong!

In what way were you not too far wrong? Your previous posts assumed a new tier of awards at exactly double the points for classic rewards - a prediction you made when other people had been confidently saying the exact same thing for quite a while. Which then turned to to be wrong.

Nostradamus you are not.

 

[levelnine]

Stick to taking discounts for points earned shopping instead of transferring them to Qantas in the hope that I can get Classic awards when I want not when Qantas decides I should get them.

Unfortunately for you, this change is not going to alleviate demand for classic award seats. You would have had a better chance if Qantas had actually introduced a new tier at 2-3x classic awards with 2-3x more availability.

People will quickly see Rewards+ for the dud it is — ie just like practically no one uses points plus pay — and go back to hunting for unicorns.

That's why I'm surprised. Under this new leadership, I thought Qantas might have been genuinely interested in redressing the problem of classic award availability. Turns out they're not.

 

[aikman]

I will give Qantas some credit here. I'm sure accountants everywhere will agree, improving the points plus pay conversion rate from 0.6c to 1.0c at this scale is not an insignificant change. If it's true that Qantas sells points to banks at around 1.0c then these points are now unprofitable.

I think lots of people will redeem their points at 1c. Lots of people are already paying cash for Qantas fares (even if they are as some would say overpriced) so I don't see why they would not cash in their points for 1c.

I do agree that classic rewards chasers will remain disappointed however I don't recall reading any other realistic suggestions to fix this problem. Even if Qantas released more classic reward seats at 2x the classic reward price we all know that all the J seats will sell out within 24 hours and we are back at square one. I actually think that if all J seats on the QF network were converted to classic rewards, even at 2x the classic reward price, all of the international seats will sell out within days.

 

[Mr H]

I will give Qantas some credit here. I'm sure accountants everywhere will agree, improving the points plus pay conversion rate from 0.6c to 1.0c at this scale is not an insignificant change. If it's true that Qantas sells points to banks at around 1.0c then these points are now unprofitable.

The airline still makes a profit on selling seats at revenue prices, even if the money to pay for them was provided (far in advance) by banks or supermarkets rather than passengers. All the more so if this enables the airline to sell seats that might otherwise not have been sold.

 

[downloadingdata]

I will give Qantas some credit here. I'm sure accountants everywhere will agree, improving the points plus pay conversion rate from 0.6c to 1.0c at this scale is not an insignificant change. If it's true that Qantas sells points to banks at around 1.0c then these points are now unprofitable.

I think lots of people will redeem their points at 1c. Lots of people are already paying cash for Qantas fares (even if they are as some would say overpriced) so I don't see why they would not cash in their points for 1c.

I do agree that classic rewards chasers will remain disappointed however I don't recall reading any other realistic suggestions to fix this problem. Even if Qantas released more classic reward seats at 2x the classic reward price we all know that all the J seats will sell out within 24 hours and we are back at square one. I actually think that if all J seats on the QF network were converted to classic rewards, even at 2x the classic reward price, all of the international seats will sell out within days.

Qantas could sell more seats at 1c then at .7c. Its a listed company not a charity. They've done the math and this would not only be more profitable for them but also reduces their liabilities.

While the incrased redemption value is in itself not a bad thing. But dont forget, reward+ doesnt give the points rewards and SC as P+P or a rev flight. In some instances it might be worse value.

My main concern is dynamic pricing would in the longer run reduce classic reward availability as it has been when previous airlines have adopted this.

 

[RichardMEL]

That's why I'm surprised. Under this new leadership, I thought Qantas might have been genuinely interested in redressing the problem of classic award availability. Turns out they're nonot.

Because there's really no new leadership is there? Hudson appears to have been Joyce's annoined successor (long time in various positions under his leadership) and Wiryh, who probably led most of this development, was also in the same mould - just as her successor, Mr Glace, has been a company man for some time coming up through Loyality.

There's really been no new vision at the top levels if one goes on the assumption that the senior appointments are insiders well versed in the existing vision, culture and direction (and supported by Goyder). Hudson may gave only been in the CEO role for six or so months - but the indications are only lip service to meaningful change. It is also likely this began while Joyce was at the top.

So is it really that surprising that again we have a much touted change that was promised to be good for customers that seemingly (pending official announcements) is more or less a non starter for most. Sure, technically the "value" of formerly p+p "rewards" has been improved but the reality would appeal to be marginal for most.

It also appears this is the only change? Seems no indication of any other changes? Seems unlikely.

 

[Doctore1003]

But dont forget, reward+ doesnt give the points rewards and SC as P+P or a rev flight. In some instances it might be worse value.

But we don’t know this yet, do we? Maybe there will be something good here for Points Club members.

 

[I love to travel]

Do we have a date yet when they will announce

 

[JohnK]

Unfortunately for you, this change is not going to alleviate demand for classic award seats. You would have had a better chance if Qantas had actually introduced a new tier at 2-3x classic awards with 2-3x more availability.

I'm OK. I have 800,000+ points that I can wait to use. I know points will be devalued but I'll wait to find the value I want not the value Qantas wants me to accept.

I feel sorry for people saving for that elusive holiday and then not finding availability.

P.S. If we go back 4-5 years there was lots of classic award availability. I know because I booked lots of flights for wife, daughter and myself. In fact September 2019 booked a classic award out of Brisbane to SE Asia for wife and daughter on the day of travel. Think.about it. School holidays.

I don't care for excuses. Now 4-5 years later and Classic awards dry up quickly. It's not like Australians are flooding to Thailand. Far from it. Tourist numbers are down overall from everywhere. The only realistic explanation is less classic rewards even though schedules are supposed to be back to pre covid levels.

 

[mviy]

My strategy has been to try to work towards LTG then after getting that look to use classic awards/upgrades as much as possible. If availability to LHR doesn’t improve for SG then I may need to rethink this strategy.

 

[Doctore1003]

Do we have a date yet when they will announce

By April, they said.

 

[CaptJCool]

My strategy has been to try to work towards LTG then after getting that look to use classic awards/upgrades as much as possible. If availability to LHR doesn’t improve for SG then I may need to rethink this strategy.

Yep
I second that

Once free lounge membership is locked in, then it’s simple enough to spend Points instead of cash or flee the QF coop and go elsewhere

I do note that it could appear there are more partner Classic rewards available than QF international ones…

I don’t think it’s helped that both QR rewards went West VA and EK rewards dried up… none of this helps and that’s on top of a near doubling of the QF membership volime and the unrealistic LTP status credits requirement

QF looks really popular for empty seats in places far flung from Australia and is happily flying planes with empty seats rather than open the door to more CRs per flight

It would also help if QF Stopped capacity controlling its own inventory - its like they have no real idea how to manage the flow and balance the supply of CR when they opened the floodgates to earning points yet haven’t done the same for the rewards

 

[encryptededdy]

I don't care for excuses. Now 4-5 years later and Classic awards dry up quickly. It's not like Australians are flooding to Thailand. Far from it. Tourist numbers are down overall from everywhere. The only realistic explanation is less classic rewards even though schedules are supposed to be back to pre covid levels.

I guess we'll never have numbers for this (only Qantas knows), but I feel like CR seats as a % of available seats are unchanged. It's just more people choosing to redeem CRs right now.

Of course, this is all just based on vibes.

 

[RichardMEL]

I guess we'll never have numbers for this (only Qantas knows), but I feel like CR seats as a % of available seats are unchanged. It's just more people choosing to redeem CRs right now.

Very good point. In 2017, QFF had 12.8m members, nowc15m - which is staggering given the Oz population is 27m - even if you include members residing in NZ, Asia, US etc it's still over half the population which is crazy imo.

Iirc latest results claimed that 1 in 11 seats on QF were redemptions so let's say 9% of capacity. Even adjusted for average liad factors you're looking at say 6-7% I would guess of pax being redemption. How does that compare to the industry as a whole? Have only managed a cursory search but not found much of use. Of course disclosing numbers of reward seats is commercial in confidence, so no real way to know.

I went back to some earlier annual reports trying to find a similiar number to compare. I found 2018 report said international redemptions were up 10% but nothing on domestic. Not very helpful. Of course VA are orivately owned now so no helpful info there either.

If I had time and desire I suppose I could measure QF ASK's and compare to gain an idea of actual percentage amounts given capacity changes over the years, but it's fair to say that there's at least been an approx 25% increase in membership over the past 5 or so years, capacity has not, so even if the relative number of CRs stayed the same, or even increased a little, demand will still be higher (not to mention demand from all other partners).

Of course, this is all just based on vibes.

Don't forget Mabo and the Constitution....

 

[BAM1748]

Trying to solve the problem of 10m Qantas members and everyone wanting to get on QF1.

Something between classic rewards and paid rewards seems likely.

 

[mviy]

Trying to solve the problem of 10m Qantas members and and everyone wanting to get on QF1.

Something between classic rewards and paid rewards seems likely.

Bringing back the A380 to QF9/10 would help a bit but I can’t see that happening sadly

 

[BAM1748]

Bringing back the A380 to QF9/10 would help a bit but I can’t see that happening sadly

380s are in decline, so agree not likely.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

By April, they said.

The 1st , perhaps?

 

[CaptJCool]

so another red tail sale has dropped and J fares are down a further $10 or so...

Methinks the WFH APS will definitely make a significant impact on J fare flyers...