"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[sudoer]

How so? Many guesses on here, nothing showing anything though, nor how things would be priced.

What to say the new 'rewards' option will be branded something new, while still having the points + pay, points amounts.... Like 10x the amounts of a CR.

A Qantas Loyalty source tells Flight Hacks that the Qantas Frequent Flyer program will launch a ‘Reward+’ flight reward product within weeks. The new redemption product is designed to sit between the existing Classic Flight Rewards and Points Plus Pay, improving availability while also offering attractive value.

Reward+ is expected to go live across the entire Qantas network in all cabins, as a dynamic product tied to the commercial fare availability of a specific flight. The same Classic Flight Reward fare rules will apply, in addition to identical taxes and fees charged on those redemptions.

Qantas Loyalty claims that Reward+ will offer a rounded 1-cent of value per point, tied to the tax-exclusive cash fare of a flight. For example, if a flight costs $500 excluding taxes, a Reward+ seat would be 50,000 Qantas Points, plus the Classic Flight Reward taxes and fees for that route.

We expect Reward+ seating to appear on the booking page for flights without Classic Flight Reward availability but with Reward+ availability.

Isn't 1c per point identical to Points + Pay?

 

[Mattg]

If the flight hacks article is correct, then it would mainly be a rebranding of "Points + Pay".

- Increased value of points (~0.8¢ to 1¢)
- Possible loss of the points/SC earn that Points+Pay currently is eligible for.
- Really just a different way of searching

If the "reward+" option is basically just going to be a rebrand of "points plus pay" though, it doesn't make sense that the screenshot in this post only shows reward+ availability on some dates.

If the awards are being priced dynamically with a value assigned of 1 cent per point, theoretically they should be available on most/all flights that also have revenue airfares available.

 

[Rich]

It could appeal to people not aspiring to fly J.
Case in point. I recently booked MEL to OOL return. There was nothing available on Qantas. Virgin had fares of 11800 points, 14900, 29000 and more. I settled on 11800 one way but had to go above the award rate with 14900 the other. Still better than the revenue options for me (just).

 

[Mr H]

My thoughts on this.

Qantas were never going to release more classic reward seats. They would worry about lost revenue from selling flights.

Qantas reportedly sells QF points to banks, supermarkets, etc. at about 1 - 1.1 cents per point. Allowing customers to redeem the points at 1 cent per point is essentially sacrificing their margin on those points. So it can be presented as almost cost neutral within Qantas.

Qantas presumably knows they will sell very few (if any) of these Rewards+ flights but they have to play the game to make them look like reward flights rather than revenue flights. So they will limit the availability and not give the points/benefits that come with revenue or P+P flights. They will be able to say to people, "look, we have made three times as many reward flights available" while not harming their revenues by much.

Meanwhile, the availability of Rewards+ flights will enable Qantas to quietly reduce the availability of Classic Reward flights on popular routes while saying they have increased overall reward availability.

IMO, this is a case of where punters should not complain about the symptoms unless they are sure they would like the medicine.

 

[levelnine]

If the awards are being priced dynamically with a value assigned of 1 cent per point, theoretically they should be available on most/all flights that also have revenue airfares available.

My guess is that, from Qantas' perspective, they are 'losing' money at 1c/pt because the floor value for Qantas points is the Points+Pay rate of ~0.7c/pt. Hence why they've been calling this an 'investment' in the program.

As a result, they will make Rewards+ widely available to address the criticism of no award flights, but not available on every flight because it is 'unprofitable' for them to do so.

 

[SeaWolf]

I'm just keeping in mind that the Flight Hacks article might not be the whole picture (QFF may have only revealed part of the story) or totally accurate on the finer details.

My guess had been that we'd see something similar to Velocity's three tier pricing for economy classic awards, which was greeted with some trepidation but has been totally fine in practice. Instead what we've seen so far is disappointing but in line with QFF's track record.

 

[encryptededdy]

I think something's missing here, because why bother moving Points+Pay to the last page of the checkout if you're going to introduce Rewards+ anyway?

 

[levelnine]

I think something's missing here, because why bother moving Points+Pay to the last page of the checkout if you're going to introduce Rewards+ anyway?

Mostly for show.

In truth, Rewards+ (1c/pt) is slightly better value than Points+Pay (~0.7c/pt), though you lose points earning & full SC earn and you still have to pay full classic award taxes/fees with Rewards+.

So, mostly for show.

 

[Doctore1003]

I think something's missing here, because why bother moving Points+Pay to the last page of the checkout if you're going to introduce Rewards+ anyway?

P+P will stay as a form of payment. They may even reduce the value of it to differentiate it from the limited-availability Reward+.

 

[elanshin]

I think at this point there's not too much more point debating about rewards+ until it launches. In it's current supposed form we can all agree it's better than p+p but not by much.

We won't know if this is the actual number or anything else QF has planned.

For all we know QF could have deliberately "leaked" the info knowing in todays world it gets out pretty quick and gauge reactions. If they can be tight-lipped about DSC promos I'm sure they could have been with this.

 

[Mr H]

For all we know QF could have deliberately "leaked" the info knowing in todays world it gets out pretty quick and gauge reactions. If they can be tight-lipped about DSC promos I'm sure they could have been with this.

I’d be amazed of this was not the case. I used to rely on leaks myself when I worked in politics. Leaks got three times the publicity of a press release.

 

[pagingjoan]

It's a pretty cough system right now.

The supposed classic reward availability when you open up the calendar is a sham.

Eg SYD - JFK in J shows up as CR seats available on 6, 20, 25 and 29 May 2024. This is supposed to be J specific as selecting economy shows much more (supposed) CR availability.

Yet searching each of these dates shows no J availability at all, as expected given what we know about availability on this route. The occasional phantom reward is understandable but this makes the system completely useless.

If you want J availability you're still much better off using the multi city calendar tool than this.

Yes, have been discussing that in another thread.
Quite frustrating.

 

[elanshin]

I’d be amazed of this was not the case. I used to rely on leaks myself when I worked in politics. Leaks got three times the publicity of a press release.

And the thing about leaked info is that they can change it up and just say that was never the official release or that we were still adjusting things at the time.

I'd hazard a guess if they officially released this in the 1c form it'd cause huge backlash and rather than launching something with good PR they get more bad PR.

Good chance they're reading reactions here and on other social media that's got this going.

 

[CaptJCool]

1. There’s now 15 million members. Back in the day there were under 8 million

2. QF have LIMITED STOCK on their own metal

3. EK used to have RELATIVE plentiful reward SEAT SUPPLY but that seems to have gone west

4. As a marker QF F pre-COVID was special Syd-LHR $9,999. Yes that’s F not the doozy pricing today of J. RECENTLY this “special” price was $13,501! But the average rate now near $20,000

5. Plenty of room to move on points thresholds, brackets, rates and taxes and everything else in between and they can be concessionally calculated (given the time value of money plus the period over which points are earnt plus the rapid points earns on credit card churning are now seeing a collision between instant and delayed gratification) but I doubt they will.

6. Vote with your feet people. They aren’t loyal to you - I know I just had a “soft landing” despite plenty of future bookings and now a truckload of cash to splash

7. They could well do with family pooling. On that basis, I’d easily qualify to keep being WP

8. I notice some OP have mentioned the other “team” one could say “eggs in one basket” isn’t now the best option but starting from scratch means you don’t have access to any rewards points anyway SQ/LH F to Europe is $6,000 lower than QF. QF can do better on pricing. But wait they do As it stands you can fly Auckland - Sydney - LHR for $3,000 to $5,000 cheaper than merely boarding in SYD so it’s not about cost recovery plus margin - it’s all about max profit

 

[levelnine]

For all we know QF could have deliberately "leaked" the info knowing in todays world it gets out pretty quick and gauge reactions. If they can be tight-lipped about DSC promos I'm sure they could have been with this.

I’d be amazed of this was not the case. I used to rely on leaks myself when I worked in politics. Leaks got three times the publicity of a press release.

I'm willing to take the other side of this speculation and predict the leaks today are exactly what will be released.

Qantas will have crunched the numbers for months (if not years) to determine what they can afford to give away seats for. There are something in the realm of 200 350 billion points in circulation. There is no way they are going to alter what those points are worth based on a single leak and the discussion of a dozen people on a niche website.

By contrast, we know that Qantas IT is notoriously bad. We know they are pushing all sorts of new changes to the website at the moment. Someone hit launch on the wrong part of the website (ie the new rewards part) late last night, a few people saw it, someone with a contact in Qantas Loyalty got them to confirm it, and that's all there is to it. These sorts of unintentional leaks happen all the time.

 

[bullerdude]

I'm willing to take the other side of this speculation and predict the leaks today are exactly what will be released.

Qantas will have crunched the numbers for months (if not years) to determine what they can afford to give away seats for. There are something in the realm of 200 billion points in circulation. There is no way they are going to alter what those points are worth based on a single leak and the discussion of a dozen people on a niche website.

By contrast, we know that Qantas IT is notoriously bad. We know they are pushing all sorts of new changes to the website at the moment. Someone hit launch on the wrong part of the website (ie the new rewards part) late last night, a few people saw it, someone with a contact in Qantas Loyalty got them to confirm it, and that's all there is to it. These sorts of unintentional leaks happen all the time.

Seeing some really weird points classic rewards pricing on connecting flights.... i.e., the pricing says classic reward but the points are closer to points + pay... so very possible the website changes are not going quite to plan.

 

[CaptJCool]

I'm willing to take the other side of this speculation and predict the leaks today are exactly what will be released.

Qantas will have crunched the numbers for months (if not years) to determine what they can afford to give away seats for. There are something in the realm of 200 billion points in circulation. There is no way they are going to alter what those points are worth based on a single leak and the discussion of a dozen people on a niche website.

By contrast, we know that Qantas IT is notoriously bad. We know they are pushing all sorts of new changes to the website at the moment. Someone hit launch on the wrong part of the website (ie the new rewards part) late last night, a few people saw it, someone with a contact in Qantas Loyalty got them to confirm it, and that's all there is to it. These sorts of unintentional leaks happen all the time.

Bearing in mind the so few F seats ACTUALLY on any of THEIR jets

“If you have a go, you get a go”
“A fair days pay for a fair days work”

So even if they CR’d them all they could hardly meet the demand of 15 million members

J given the Seating volume is a bit of a different proposition but nevertheless it’s a complex scenario to meet the members demand. Especially when you’ve increased share of wallet to yourselves and now have lots more members with the CR points wanting that once a year / decade or lifetime Treat on the J

Pullin’ a Swifty”
Even if you smooth out demand peaks, ya only need see the recent Tay Tay fare pricing to see what happens in high demand times.

So high demand is auction priced so many drop out as they can’t afford the asking price.

I do think there’s scope for fair retail pricing even on rewards redemptions. After all, they’re the ones who sold the dream and are now reneging on their side of the bargain

No wonder people go for $50 now rather than $100 at the end of the month.

 

[levelnine]

Yes, it looks like the website might be accidentally showing the Rewards+ option on mixed carrier (in this case, Qantaslink and Alliance) itineraries already when logged out.

See this flight. It is $467 once you take out the taxes (ie GST). It is showing as a "classic reward" for 46K points (ie 1c/pt).

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the charges. The classic award taxes on this route are $117, not $124.

 

[elanshin]

Yes, it looks like the website might be accidentally showing the Rewards+ option on mixed carrier (in this case, Qantaslink and Alliance) itineraries already when logged out.

See this flight. It is $467 once you take out the taxes (ie GST). It is showing as a "classic reward" for 46K points (ie 1c/pt).

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the charges. The classic award taxes on this route are $117, not $124.

View attachment 373040

View attachment 373042

I look next to it which I assume is CR J....

 

[Virgin Bart]

I’d be amazed of this was not the case. I used to rely on leaks myself when I worked in politics. Leaks got three times the publicity of a press release.

Sigh. Can confirm.