Well I'm stumped. Classic Reward, multicity, release dates, I must be doing it wrong.

[JennyMG]

Surely it can't be that hard booking a classic award from Syd to Italy or thereabouts next April/May 2025 and back from France or thereabouts to home next May/June 2025?
I've done it before, fairly easily before 2019/20 stuffed everything, but now... rather than getting better, more streamlined, more detail, more availability,.. QFF and booking screens seem far worse.
I'm just trying to get the lay of the land, prepare, know what to look for and when to look for it so I'll be ready. I can't make heads nor tails of the classic award options and flights.

I'm only a silver. Possibly be a nothing by the time I book.

• The multicity tool never works properly, (and if there's no award flights on the day you picked beforehand, there's no way to flick a day forward with the top calendar, you have to go all the way back to a changed search.)
• There seems no rhyme or pattern to the release dates of any of the airlines in the partnership. Sometimes they turn up only 2 months before a flight, yet we're being 'told' to look almost a year in advance.
• There are rivalries, and coughing going on, between airlines...QTR for example.
• I see BA flights consistently for a couple of months in a predictable pattern, then they disappear. Same with Cathay.
• Things that appear on single flight, don't appear on Multiflight and VV. Things that appear on Seats Aero and Expert Flyer don't sometimes appear on Q, or don't explain that they're code share with some lesser airline.
• And far from seeing more award flights, (in J, and particularly direct) I'm seeing way less than before. Sure there are circuitous routes via goodness-knows-where and a zillion hour layovers but I would have thought my flexibility would allow some shorter more direct flights to turn up.
• there are few BA, few Air France, nil KLM, nil Qatar, ...what the heck is going on? are we ONLY to fly Chinese airlines? There's millions of those, and emirates, if you're willing to part with $3000 each ticket on top of the points.
  
  I have Seats Aero account - what a great tool, enjoy Flight Connections, and a premium Expert Flyer account (which I'm still learning.) I get it, no one tool gives 100% accuracy.
  
  If anyone has any bright ideas, or can suggest route options, or can explain the above patterns...so I can look in the right place at the right time (OK, stop your chortling..)
  
  And I think I'm being pretty flexible. I have some preferences, but who doesn't?
  Dream itin is Syd>somewhere> FCO CDG >somewhere> Syd.
  Will go via Melbourne or Brisbane etc, if I need to. I'll stop anywhere that is not dangerous, would RATHER a pleasant stopover place, Sing, HKG, etc, but that's not essential. Don't want to fly Chinese airlines, or stop in super off beat places, dangerous places, or have wild long layovers, or stop anywhere in China. (not racist, just my preference as had a very bad experience.) Would rather fly the big airlines, with nice J/O/C (depending on who you're looking at). Happy to go Cathay, JAL, Finnair, AF, BA, etc...but prefer to give Q a wide berth until they get their act into gear. Last J flight I took with Q to HKG was horrendous.
  Want to end up in Rome...or at least in the country, or close to. Coming home, want to leave from somewhere near Strasbourg. Don't care which country. Could be Stuttgart or Frankfurt. Paris or wherever. As long as the points are not diabolical and the loading doesn't give me an aneurism.
  
  Lastly, have not heard/seen much about the new look Concierge (except a million ads.) 10% fee is super steep. But would do it if it helped a lot, and wonder who HAS had a good experience, can only find poor experiences on the forum.

 

[ChrisMars]

Yea it's just hard:
- QR don't release to Qantas (except some crumbs a few days or weeks before departure)
- CX still not recovered
- BA keeping a big chunk of it's seats for it's own frequent flyers (since 6 months maybe)
- Emirates taxes
- Airline break their release pattern, which makes international trip that may use two different airline really diffcults

All up, all those changes put a lot of pressure on the system. It's just hard.
What seems to happens though is more seats are released last minute, as well as more Qantas upgrade success.

 

[Human]

… And also, once or twice a year, Qantas releases reward seats in a large batch, with about half a day of plentiful availability before it’s all taken.

I know that your preference is to give Qantas “a wide berth” but beggars really can’t be choosers in the points game, especially when it comes to popular long haul routes such as Europe. Though availability on Sri Lankan to/from Columbo seems to be OK at times? Flying on Qantas to India and then BA or Emirates from there could also be an option, as could flying Qantas to Johannesburg and then either BA, AF or KLM from there to Europe?

You have all the tools and knowledge you need: when I’m stuck I find that a combination of seats.aero and flightconnections.com does wonders. Now you just need to be patient, creative, and to hold your nerve.

 

[aikman]

I think you may need to be more flexible. Consider landing in any airport in Europe, be open to flying any airline, be open to long layovers.

Being 'told' to book a year out is old advice. It is no longer reliable.

I think the best way to secure seats is to devote your life to constantly search for seats. When the good seats (big airline, direct) drop at some random point in time, it won't last very long and you want to be there to book it straight away.

 

[levelnine]

How many points do you have? And how desperate are you to book with points?

Classic Rewards + is set to be launched in July. With that new program, you should be able to book return business class tickets to Europe for about 800,000 — 1,200,000 Qantas points + Taxes/Fees per person.

 

[JennyMG]

Yea it's just hard:
- QR don't release to Qantas (except some crumbs a few days or weeks before departure)
- CX still not recovered
- BA keeping a big chunk of it's seats for it's own frequent flyers (since 6 months maybe)
- Emirates taxes
- Airline break their release pattern, which makes international trip that may use two different airline really diffcults

All up, all those changes put a lot of pressure on the system. It's just hard.
What seems to happens though is more seats are released last minute, as well as more Qantas upgrade success.

ah, that's why I'm only seeing BA in Sept Oct, and no later?
@Chris - can you explain:

Airline break their release pattern

am not sure what that means. (sorry).

All in all, I'm not a person who likes to leave things to the last minute. In the past, we didn't have to...we could book - should book as soon as the tickets are released almost a year out.
Perhaps I should decide on a route, and individually book CA legs when they turn up (what a trek), and pay cash for the ones I never get. Maybe I'm asking too much for the whole trip to be CA.

 

[JennyMG]

How many points do you have? And how desperate are you to book with points?

Classic Rewards + is set to be launched in July. With that new program, you should be able to book return business class tickets to Europe for about 800,000 — 1,200,000 Qantas points + Taxes/Fees per person.

We have plenty, about 1,200,000 QFF and also another 150K with Velocity.
I'm not desperate to book every leg with QFF, but was trying to prove to my husband that the last 10 years of Qantas Bankwest credit card, St. George Amplify, and WWorths points were worth it.
We COULD book some legs points and pay for others.

I'll google Classic Rewards + , what is it?
That seems a LOT of points to Europe, I've only spent about 600K in the past.

 

[JennyMG]

… And also, once or twice a year, Qantas releases reward seats in a large batch, with about half a day of plentiful availability before it’s all taken.

I know that your preference is to give Qantas “a wide berth” but beggars really can’t be choosers in the points game, especially when it comes to popular long haul routes such as Europe. Though availability on Sri Lankan to/from Columbo seems to be OK at times? Flying on Qantas to India and then BA or Emirates from there could also be an option, as could flying Qantas to Johannesburg and then either BA, AF or KLM from there to Europe?

You have all the tools and knowledge you need: when I’m stuck I find that a combination of seats.aero and flightconnections.com does wonders. Now you just need to be patient, creative, and to hold your nerve.

True, I'm trying hard not to be too picky, only that I'm pretty new to J, and it all seems so exciting, so I was trying to fly the 'nice' ones if possible before I run out of points. I'm only a silver status holder.

Some excellent suggestions there for alternate routes. I don't mind at all going via columbo, it's on my list of possibilities but hadn't worked hard on it and hadn't really considered Sri Lankan. I wonder what they're like? Excellent suggestion re via India too, but perhaps the Joburg route might cost a bit too many points. I'll look into it.

Thankyou so much for your help. I find this forum just so kind and generous in knowledge. Appreciate it.

 

[JennyMG]

I think you may need to be more flexible. Consider landing in any airport in Europe, be open to flying any airline, be open to long layovers.

Being 'told' to book a year out is old advice. It is no longer reliable.

I think the best way to secure seats is to devote your life to constantly search for seats. When the good seats (big airline, direct) drop at some random point in time, it won't last very long and you want to be there to book it straight away.

Right. All very sensible advice. So perhaps ditch the Rome/nearby scenario etc.
and also Right. I'll try to set up some alerts (I'll have to learn how) and then enjoy whatever the trip on any carrier to anywhere as I always do.

@aikman - is there ANY predictable nature to when certain airlines drop seats?

 

[WilsonM]

12 months is a bit erroneous, as while some airlines release at 360 days out (JAL, MH), some don't really release until 330 (AA/AS, EK). QF is just a bit in the gutter at the moment for Europe availability, but their Asia availability isn't bad so you could try something like SYD/MEL/BNE - TYO, then Tokyo - Helsinki/Frankfurt? China Airlines is also a viable option into/out of Rome, but they also fly into other ports such as Vienna, Frankfurt and Prague. Their schedule is horrible for timings in/out of Australia, as all the Australia flights arrive into TPE at 05:00 and all the Europe flights bar one to LHR leave at close to midnight. But there is often decent availability. You'll most likely have to force the search through TPE via the Multi-city tool, which can then cause some married segment issues though (both legs will appear bookable, but they might error out).

The toughest part is getting out from and into Australia. If you can do that, you should be okay, although it might be less than ideal.

 

[Dr Ralph]

The game of booking award seats has changed and you need to change too. Dates for release have definitely changed. The once almost sure trick of booking about a year out is over.

 

[Human]

The game of booking award seats has changed and you need to change too. Dates for release have definitely changed. The once almost sure trick of booking about a year out is over.

You're largely correct, but I think I'd qualify that sentence with the words "... when you're using Qantas points". With many other airlines and many other FF programmes, booking about a year out is still the way to go as far as I can see. A few examples that I'm familiar with:

• Qatar Airways Privilege Club is (currently) pretty consistent with releasing reward seats a year out (admittedly, after a period of a few months last year when they did not do so).
• Booking Singapore Airlines seats via KrisFlyer a year out is definitely a recipe for success.
• Related to the above, Qatar and Singapore seats are relatively easy to find via Velocity, 330 days out.

Yes, there are exceptions -- Emirates, United, Qantas itself. And more and more, seats are only, or chiefly, available via the airlines' own FF programmes (eg. Cathay).

My takeaway is that there's no blanket rule. With some airlines such as Singapore and Qatar, booking a year out actually still is an "almost sure trick".

 

[JennyMG]

12 months is a bit erroneous, as while some airlines release at 360 days out (JAL, MH), some don't really release until 330 (AA/AS, EK). QF is just a bit in the gutter at the moment for Europe availability, but their Asia availability isn't bad so you could try something like SYD/MEL/BNE - TYO, then Tokyo - Helsinki/Frankfurt? China Airlines is also a viable option into/out of Rome, but they also fly into other ports such as Vienna, Frankfurt and Prague. Their schedule is horrible for timings in/out of Australia, as all the Australia flights arrive into TPE at 05:00 and all the Europe flights bar one to LHR leave at close to midnight. But there is often decent availability. You'll most likely have to force the search through TPE via the Multi-city tool, which can then cause some married segment issues though (both legs will appear bookable, but they might error out).

The toughest part is getting out from and into Australia. If you can do that, you should be okay, although it might be less than ideal.

That TYO>HEL>FRA was one I had considered. (and love Tokyo so extra bonus.)
I dislike China airlines and through previous experience am steering away from them, though it's annoying because their availability and destinations are clearly the most obvious.

@ WilsonM - sorry if it's a silly question, as I have had myriad issues with the damn Multicity tool, what did you mean by 'force the search'?

ou'll most likely have to force the search through TPE via the Multi-city tool, which can then cause some married segment issues though

Right...so in your view the Australian leg is the toughest (especially if there are princessy prerequisites. :/ haha. And isn't helped by the (approx) 12 month 'rule' seeming to be out the window right now.

 

[JennyMG]

You're largely correct, but I think I'd qualify that sentence with the words "... when you're using Qantas points". With many other airlines and many other FF programmes, booking about a year out is still the way to go as far as I can see. A few examples that I'm familiar with:

• Qatar Airways Privilege Club is (currently) pretty consistent with releasing reward seats a year out (admittedly, after a period of a few months last year when they did not do so).
• Booking Singapore Airlines seats via KrisFlyer a year out is definitely a recipe for success.
• Related to the above, Qatar and Singapore seats are relatively easy to find via Velocity, 330 days out.

Yes, there are exceptions -- Emirates, United, Qantas itself. And more and more, seats are only, or chiefly, available via the airlines' own FF programmes (eg. Cathay).

My takeaway is that there's no blanket rule. With some airlines such as Singapore and Qatar, booking a year out actually still is an "almost sure trick".

ok, yes I get it. I hold only QFF points except about 200K velocity. I don't belong to any other airline groups that I hold points in.
But I can't use my QFF points in 'other' clubs, right?

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2024

The game of booking award seats has changed and you need to change too. Dates for release have definitely changed. The once almost sure trick of booking about a year out is over.

any patterns you've discerned? Or is it as chaotic as Qantas' IT department?

 

[p--and--t]

ok, yes I get it. I hold only QFF points except about 200K velocity. I don't belong to any other airline groups that I hold points in.
But I can't use my QFF points in 'other' clubs, right?

Post automatically merged: Apr 7, 2024

any patterns you've discerned? Or is it as chaotic as Qantas' IT department?

You can only use QFF points booking via QF website or contact centre, but on any available airline that QF offers you via their website (Oneworld carriers plus some partners).

You can't use QFF points booking directly with any other carrier or points program.

 

[Human]

ok, yes I get it. I hold only QFF points except about 200K velocity. I don't belong to any other airline groups that I hold points in.
But I can't use my QFF points in 'other' clubs, right?

You can use them for other Oneworld and Qantas partner airlines (eg. Emirates, China Airlines) but only for flights that are bookable via the Qantas website.

Here are a couple of strategies for you to consider:

• Use flight connections.com to find out what Qantas, Oneworld and Qantas partner flights there are out of Australia to Asia. Then set up searches for those flights on seats.aero. When flights become available, then search for flights using Qantas points out of those destinations (eg. You might find availability on Malaysian Airlines into KL, so then search for flights between KL and Europe).
• You could also use your Velocity points to get to somewhere like Singapore or even, if you have enough points, Tokyo. Then use your Qantas points from there. (I’m in the process of doing this myself for a flight home from New York – I’m looking to use Qantas points to fly JAL from JFK to SIN via Tokyo, then Velocity points for a Singapore Airlines flight home).

You wrote above that you have St George Amplify points — are you aware that you can convert those to KrisFlyer (Singapore Airlines) points, or have you already converted them to Qantas points?

 

[WilsonM]

@ WilsonM - sorry if it's a silly question, as I have had myriad issues with the damn Multicity tool, what did you mean by 'force the search'?

Right...so in your view the Australian leg is the toughest (especially if there are princessy prerequisites. :/ haha. And isn't helped by the (approx) 12 month 'rule' seeming to be out the window right now.

Sorry I didn't explain this! I mean you have to break the search down leg by leg, rather than searching end to end, that's all.

But yeah, IMO the Australia legs are the toughest. If you don't want to fly certain carriers that can make other legs difficult as well. As others have suggested, it's worth looking at Flight Connections as well to see where matches up where. But of course, you shouldn't be forced to fly an airline you don't want to, it's entirely up to you what you do with your points.

 

[MrJetset]

All of the release dates (published and unpublished) prior to Covid can no longer be relief upon. The only exceptions are the ME3 and BA who release close to departure.

I suspect QF have pulled Classic Rewards in the last month or more in preparation for Monday's announcement. Looking at DPS, there are no awards ex SYD until Nov and even I class is 0 except for < 10 days prior to that. The flights are A330s and not sold out, but rather Rev Management are only selling higher classes.

I did manage to get each award released when I did find I class.

 

[maroonone]

My recent booking experience was J SYD-LHR on China Airlines (Taiwan) booked 359 days out. Then plenty of FF seats to get from LHR to anywhere in Europe.Taxes $220 each. Hard to book as normal search on QF doesn’t allow 360 days out. Need to search about 350 out and then keep moving date boxes later. Sometimes site wouldn’t let you move all the way sometimes it would. For return, ample flights out of Europe to Japan on AY and JL (again 360 days out). For last leg home direct to BNE probably going to do JQ J paid out of Japan as it’s only about 1000 each. No need to rush to book as plenty of availability and price seems to drop by a bit about 8 months out. Plenty of points seats available but not value for money IMO. Booking each segment at first opportunity is the only way these days I believe. I did dummy searches for about a month beforehand each day to determine when seats were appearing and noting which days had availability. This then drove my travel dates.

 

[JohnK]

Surely it can't be that hard booking a classic award from Syd to Italy or thereabouts next April/May 2025 and back from France or thereabouts to home next May/June 2025?
I've done it before, fairly easily before 2019/20 stuffed everything, but now... rather than getting better, more streamlined, more detail, more availability,.. QFF and booking screens seem far worse.
I'm just trying to get the lay of the land, prepare, know what to look for and when to look for it so I'll be ready. I can't make heads nor tails of the classic award options and flights.

Classic Awards have become very difficult to book to certain destinations since Covid.

I used to be very creative and had lots of energy and was able to redeem 3 seats to BKK often either direct or via SIN/HKG for a few extra points. Now close to impossible as we have zero flexibility and if we find awards seats outbound there are no award seats inbound and vice versa.

And it seems to be getting worse. Not sure it will ever improve. Time to stop playing the game.