Virgin Flair

[acampbel]

.

Yes .... LCC .... what does that really mean?

I flew up to Brisbane last Thursday, and although we have a BFOD policy I was trying to coordinate arrival at the airport with a colleague from Melbourne. This meant that we chose Qantas over some cheaper options from Virgin, as we could both arrive shortly after 8am

On the Wednesday afternoon I finally got around to doing my online check-in and found that my original flight had been cancelled - and instead of arriving at 8:05 on QF506 I was now arriving at 7:35 on QF504. To be fair to Qantas they did also call me up 30 minutes later to advise me of the change, but would not or could not explain the cause - citing the ubiquitous "operational reasons".


As it turned out the 767 that I was on was not full, so I can't help my cynical mind thinking that Qantas turned 3 half-empty flights into 2 fuller ones. But that would bear the hallmark of an LCC, would it not?


Cheers,

Andrew

.

 

[pauly7]

Seriously, you must be cracked if you think this. Dajop has it right - on DJ you actually get what you pay for - guaranteed seat location, real food, and usually at a better price. And generally in a newer plane, with better seat pitch, and happier crews, and faster board/de-plane times, and a better IFE, and better lounges.

I don't understand why there are so many Virgin Blue knockers on this forum. They cannot be flying with DJ or they would know better. I fly both and I know that what gets said about Virgin is utter bullsh!t. Just stick with your beloved QF and stop the bloody whining!

As for Crazy Dave, that has to be the best comeback I have ever seen on this forum.

YY, Think its obvious by now that I'm abosolutely not one of the Virgin Blue knockers, I fly all 3 major airlines and DJ about 20-25% of the time now we are on BFOD domestically. My annual T/E comes to about AU180K so I do fly quite a bit!

I thought I would throw up the opinion that from reading alot of posts, the DJ loyalists consistantly claim stuff like 'far superior service', 'newer aircraft' 'better food' etc which apart from being very subjective (yes even the new aircraft - because as endlessly discussed here even new aircraft can appear to be old and dirty thanks to poor cleaning / maintenance ) - just clashes with those who don't agree flat out (QF loyalists) or even people who have more moderate and I like to think 'realisitic' like me

Newer planes: (glad you put generally!) Yes DJ do than QF, thats a default although increasingly you are likely to be on a new 73H or even some of the regional props with QF. Again as mentioned cleanliness can overide the 'new' factor and both DJ and JQ can sometimes trash a plane quite well. General public wise, not sure this is a huge factor, but alot of people do prefer QF widebodies still (bigger/better thing). Lets not forget JQ, who apparantly have requested that DJ remove all advertising claims saying that they have the youngest fleet - mantle now belongs to JQ.

Real food: DJ gives you choice more often than QF at a cost. Is it good? IMHO no airline food really is - including JQ and DJ's pay extra on board - I think its all pretty average unless I'm in J or F! Only exception for me is the QF breakfast though now, cereal, fruit, roll, coffee - simple and thats all I like!

Better seat pitch. By the ruler - yes for DJ, to be honest I don't really notice. JQ for me on shorhaul is actually better - have broad shoulders & DJ can be a bit narrow. QF is fine for me - but I wouldn't complain about any airline in OZ though.

Better IFE: Maybe at the end of the year - certainly not now. Will the fact you have to shell out more $ take the 'betterness' out for some? And will businesses let their staff charge it to T/E to watch Melrose Place repeats when they could be working?! I intend to find out...

Better Lounges: Sheer unavailability rules DJ out I'm afraid. BUT in terms of like for like (e.g. the 2 Syd Domestic QF club v DJ club) I find them pretty similar and wouldn't bother me either way - I think they could have designed the DJ ones with a bit more $ on the fixtures/ambience though.

Happier Crews/Service: As I've posted before, DJ have dialled the silly & stupid right down now (People who complain about this still I'm not sure you have flown DJ recently) as QF have dialled the friendly up over the last 4-5 months - both changes are VERY welcome! IMHO QF and DJ service are both great, DJ probably delivered a little more casually - very similar to JQ. QF service has the huge advantage of having many more avenues to help you get there if stuff goes wrong - which is just a default being the dominant airline.

Deplaning times: To be honest not sure if this is anything major to the consumer, although some wouldn't like being forced to walk on the tarmac - but I suspect this is more an operational requirement for DJ and sometimes JQ. Certainly doesn't ever cross my mind.

In anycase, there are obviously some passionate & loyal customers/employees of both airlines on here - don't think swearing, calling people 'whiners' or foul mobile phone re-sellers is really required

Just think that more balanced and moderated views FROM BOTH SIDES would lead to more insightful discussion! Even though there are less Virgin loyalists here it doesn't mean you need to shout twice as loud to be heard - it just gets the QF loyalists even more worked up

For the record I pretty much sit on the fence domestically

 

[Yada Yada]

Better seat pitch. By the ruler - yes for DJ, to be honest I don't really notice. JQ for me on shorhaul is actually better - have broad shoulders & DJ can be a bit narrow. QF is fine for me - but I wouldn't complain about any airline in OZ though.

QF would have the seat same width as DJ on their Boeing aircraft, which is the majority of the fleet. Their best planes (A330) all got sent to JQ.

Better IFE: Maybe at the end of the year - certainly not now. Will the fact you have to shell out more $ take the 'betterness' out for some? And will businesses let their staff charge it to T/E to watch Melrose Place repeats when they could be working?! I intend to find out...

I watched QF's IFE on Thursday evening and have to say that the Channel 9 News (which I never watch at home) is utter rubbish - it's not much more than celebrity news and amusing stories about household pets. They followed it up with a lame comedy so I packed the headphones away and listened to my iPod instead. While DJ's live2air is not on every plane yet, it will be during this year and having experienced it twice, it is far superior - a few dozen channels will always beat one.

Better Lounges: Sheer unavailability rules DJ out I'm afraid. BUT in terms of like for like (e.g. the 2 Syd Domestic QF club v DJ club) I find them pretty similar and wouldn't bother me either way - I think they could have designed the DJ ones with a bit more $ on the fixtures/ambience though.

QF are in a better position in that they have lounges almost everywhere. Having experienced a number of them, I have to say that the biggest problem is overcrowding. If you do not arrive early enough in lounges at places where there are a few main afternoon flights out (e.g. Townsville and Perth), you simply cannot get a seat! In the major capitals (SYD, BNE, MEL) I have walked around for 5 minutes looking for a seat so it's not much better there either. While they have a slightly bigger selection of food, it's not great stuff. Those little drumstick-shaped chicken nuggets they bring out in the evenings are a long way below the quality of a KFC chicken nugget. Thankfully I am mostly flying the golden triangle where DJ has lounges - they are never crowded and the food they have is fresh, healthy, and the coffee is the best.

Deplaning times: To be honest not sure if this is anything major to the consumer, although some wouldn't like being forced to walk on the tarmac - but I suspect this is more an operational requirement for DJ and sometimes JQ. Certainly doesn't ever cross my mind.

I do like to be able to get off quickly and get to work/get home. It is important for me and I expect a lot of people - witness how quickly everyone jumps up as soon as the seatbelt light goes off. DJ is heaps quicker (unless the wind is too strong and they don't open the back door). I actually like the tarmac walk - it gives me a chance to look at the planes and also a bit of much-needed exercise.

In anycase, there are obviously some passionate & loyal customers/employees of both airlines on here - don't think swearing, calling people 'whiners' or foul mobile phone re-sellers is really required

Just think that more balanced and moderated views FROM BOTH SIDES would lead to more insightful discussion! Even though there are less Virgin loyalists here it doesn't mean you need to shout twice as loud to be heard - it just gets the QF loyalists even more worked up

I don't think I spend a lot of time shouting here, but I do feel compelled to speak up when someone sprouts nonsense about Virgin Blue. I am not an employee - I just choose to fly on them more regularly that I do Qantas because I think they are better.

 

[straitman]

I do like to be able to get off quickly and get to work/get home. It is important for me and I expect a lot of people - witness how quickly everyone jumps up as soon as the seatbelt light goes off. DJ is heaps quicker (unless the wind is too strong and they don't open the back door). I actually like the tarmac walk - it gives me a chance to look at the planes and also a bit of much-needed exercise.

Yada Yada,
I have no problem with the exercise part however (as I've posted previously) I do have a major problem with the noise part :!:

'They still require people on many occasions to walk on the tarmac amongst other very noisy aircraft. Taxying turbine a/c can easily reach above 100 db and the daily noise exposure before permanent hearing damage is 15 min at 100 db and 7.5 min at 103 db. Where does this stand from and OH&S perspective? Not satisfactory for me as I already spend excessive periods of time around turbines (even with level 5 hearing protection)'

 

[pauly7]

I don't think I spend a lot of time shouting here, but I do feel compelled to speak up when someone sprouts nonsense about Virgin Blue. I am not an employee - I just choose to fly on them more regularly that I do Qantas because I think they are better.

I'm not getting drawn into a slug out match with you YY, there are people who care more than me around to do that.

As pointed out I disagree with people who think Virgin is far better and I disagree with people who think Qantas is far better. I think the actual differences are much smaller than either camp like to admit.

And FWIW I wasn't singling you out as a shouter, but I don't think you need to reduce yourself to swearing and namecalling to get your beliefs about Virgin across... you seem more intelligent than that

 

[NM]

I don't think I spend a lot of time shouting here, but I do feel compelled to speak up when someone sprouts nonsense about Virgin Blue. I am not an employee - I just choose to fly on them more regularly that I do Qantas because I think they are better.

And good on you for holding firm to your belief. It is good to see.

However, if everyone thought the same and had the same experiences and hence likes and dislikes in life, then this planet would be a very boring place to live as we would all be driving the same make, model and colour of car, all wearing the same style and colour of clothes, all eating the same food from the same restaurant, all flying with the same airline to the same holiday destination etc. Differences in views, opinions and experiences is what make us all different people who act and think differently (thankfully).

Now why can I picture The Life of Brian right now .... "You are all individuals" ... "We are all individuals" ... "I'm not!".

[Moderator_Hat_On]
Feel free to post about your experience and opinions - sharing such things is the heart and soul of AFF. But please respect each other's right to have hold a different opinion as they may have had different experiences or apply different priorities to different aspects of the various products.
[/Moderator_Hat_Off]

 

[pauly7]

[Moderator_Hat_On]
Feel free to post about your experience and opinions - sharing such things is the heart and soul of AFF. But please respect each other's right to have hold a different opinion as they may have had different experiences or apply different priorities to different aspects of the various products.
[/Moderator_Hat_Off]

Thanks Moderator Hat On! - was descending into unproductive namecalling

 

[straitman]

Thanks Moderator Hat On! - was descending into unproductive namecalling

Me thinks it's time that a few people here learnt to agree to disagree :!:

:shock:

 

[Yada Yada]

Methinks we need to differentiate between opinions and facts.

I'm fine with anyone expressing their opinions, e.g. "I don't like the Virgin Blue service as I find it is too cheery".

However comments such as "I just flew on Qantas today... got a nice exit row seat, coffee and a nice cake. Fares weren't that different. Ask Virgin Blue to do the same... (they'll charge you an arm and a leg)." are posted as statements of fact but are simply untrue. I see nothing wrong with challenging that. :-|

 

[NM]

Methinks we need to differentiate between opinions and facts.

Everything posted to an Internet forum is an opinion - and you can take that as a fact .

You can disagree with what others post. That should produce healthy discussion. But personal attacks on other forum members is not acceptable. Focus the argument on what is posted, not who posted it and things will remain civil.

This is a topic that is always going to be fuelled by different views which don't relate to fact or reality. Its a bit like asking Mrs NM to explain why she just bought a new outfit. I know there is no fact or truth behind her explanation, but I also know that nothing I say or do will change her perception that she is right :shock: . Her opinion is as good as fact to her, even though I know its rubbish. So I go on my way knowing I am right and she is wrong ... but also knowing the credit card is several hundred dollars heavier :evil: .

I have no issue with your posts in this thread. But some posters were close to the line on personal attacks, so the mod hat came on for a general warning to keep people from personal attacks. Now I hope the hat can go back in the cupboard to gather some more dust.

Oh yes, and sometimes its just best not to feed the trolls .

 

[crazydave98]

'They still require people on many occasions to walk on the tarmac amongst other very noisy aircraft. Taxying turbine a/c can easily reach above 100 db and the daily noise exposure before permanent hearing damage is 15 min at 100 db and 7.5 min at 103 db. Where does this stand from and OH&S perspective? Not satisfactory for me as I already spend excessive periods of time around turbines (even with level 5 hearing protection)'

Fair point - I understand why this is an issue for frequent travellers or others who are exposed to high noise levels due to occupation. It's a pretty rare occaision that we don't use aerobridges where they are available (although I had that experience at gate 47 at BNE yesterday which is well away from the busy ramp area from gates 39 to about 43 out on the satellite pier). We ask, but certainly don't require guests to walk across the tarmac if they are seated aft of row 13. Our crew usually make the annoucement that people travelling with small kids or who would otherwise have difficulty using the stairs can use the aerobridge no matter what seat. Maybe this should be generalised to people who have issues (need a better word) with using the stairs.

Pauly7 - appreciate your balanced views and way of putting them.

cheers
CrazyDave98

 

[Yada Yada]

Everything posted to an Internet forum is an opinion - and you can take that as a fact .

Well, my understanding of the world is that there is such a thing as the "the objective truth". A colour-blind man may well insist that Virgin Blue planes are not red, but it certainly does not mean he is correct. Some things are absolute. I don't subscribe to post-modern thinking where everyone's opinion is "truth" for them and therefore valid.

Anyway, NM - I do appreciate your very moderate moderation of AFF, and will try to refrain from calling other member's sanity into question in future. Apologies to those whom I may have offended. :-|

 

[Yada Yada]

Yada Yada,
I have no problem with the exercise part however (as I've posted previously) I do have a major problem with the noise part :!:

'They still require people on many occasions to walk on the tarmac amongst other very noisy aircraft. Taxying turbine a/c can easily reach above 100 db and the daily noise exposure before permanent hearing damage is 15 min at 100 db and 7.5 min at 103 db. Where does this stand from and OH&S perspective? Not satisfactory for me as I already spend excessive periods of time around turbines (even with level 5 hearing protection)'

Hi Bill,

I tend to seat myself at the back on my flight out in the morning and at the front on the way home, so I do a "tarmac walk" each week in SYD and MEL. I'm well aware of the damage that excessive noise can do to one's hearing - we've had a few claims in our factory that I've had to deal with in past years.

While I've never measured the sound levels while walking on the tarmac, my only observation is that it is very quiet out there at the DJ terminals in SYD and MEL! None of the DJ jets ever seems to be revving their engines while parked at the gates. Even after they've pushed back there seems to be very little noise, I guess because the planes are moved all the way out from the terminal area with the tug.

Perhaps it is different at other locations?

 

[straitman]

Hi Bill,

I tend to seat myself at the back on my flight out in the morning and at the front on the way home, so I do a "tarmac walk" each week in SYD and MEL. I'm well aware of the damage that excessive noise can do to one's hearing - we've had a few claims in our factory that I've had to deal with in past years.

While I've never measured the sound levels while walking on the tarmac, my only observation is that it is very quiet out there at the DJ terminals in SYD and MEL! None of the DJ jets ever seems to be revving their engines while parked at the gates. Even after they've pushed back there seems to be very little noise, I guess because the planes are moved all the way out from the terminal area with the tug.

Perhaps it is different at other locations?

Yada Yada & crazydave98,

Thanks for your responses.

Re my 'sardines' comment. I believe that perception is worth a lot and that is my perception of a 737. (irrespective of the operator) I'm just not particularly fond of them.

The open air walk and taxying a/c comment was actually about MEL airport (approx 3 months ago) and the gates that back onto the international side when several taxying international a/c went past in succession. Revving engines with a turbine isn't really relevant as many turbines are actually more of a problem at idle than at low power and I have measured noise level on tarmacs. The answers are often quite frightening.

Time to move on......