Virgin complaints

[mcck]

Have been hit by the V Australia postponement of MEL-LAX flights. As travelling with 2 small kids only booked (in June) as it was direct flight, now offered re-route via SYD or BNE. Have so far spoken to call centre who cannot deal with complaints and filled in on-line form, with promise of reply within 21 days. We fly in 22. Is there any way I can actually speak to someone at Virgin who can deal with my complaints - initially wanted refund to book flights with Air NZ, but those tickets now gone, so now stuck with elongated travel and rebooking of car hire/accom at US end.

 

[ANstar]

I would have thought the call centre would be able to rebook you via bne/syd or give a refund. Have you asked them for a refund?

 

[vet]

I'm surprised its taken some of June, all of July and most of August for you to learn the flights, in 22 days, were no longer direct. That's deplorable. Meantime you've lost the opportunity to grab other airline's cheap/cheaper deals. Possibly, you'll fly now on different days and incur added costs.

V recently told me to not book onward flights from LA on VirginAmerica, hotels and cars thru V's website etc for my flights in January, March and April. Why not, I wonder? They wrote in the media of their committment to the direct flights, but now there's this uncertainty - I'll be booking 2 other trips on AirNZ via Auckland to San Francisco rather than Mel-LA on VA and LA-SFO on VirginAmerica's first class service. I'd like to support V, but

Someone I know in Brisbane is looking into why his direct flight to LA on Sunday 17 January is looking like it'll be via Sydney. He claims the travel agent said he'll have to cop the costs of delays himself. As he has spent $85,000 with the Virgin Group over the years, V's beancounters might wonder why passenger numbers next year drop as disgruntled passengers go back to other airlines. They won back many who were inconvenienced by the delays caused by the Boeing strike, but they're posting they won't bother with V on their annual trips in 2011 onwards.

If it helps, on google you'll find DLA Phillips Fox Lawyers' newsletter. They wrote (May 08) that the new Civil Aviation Montreal Convention Act would allow up to $7500 (at the time) compensation for passenger delays. Is the re-routing via Sydney causing you to incur extra hotels, extra cab fares to/from hotels, cancellation fees for onward travel, etc? Jetstar cancelled my trip to connect with a US Carrier to San Francisco and, because of a mix of US and other laws, they paid cash and gave a trip, after they were asked by lawyers in LA and Melbourne. And that was before the new Act made things so much easier.

So keep us updated.

 

[mcck]

I would have thought the call centre would be able to rebook you via bne/syd or give a refund. Have you asked them for a refund?

Call centre could only offer re-route via BNE/SYD. Even speaking to supervisor (who admitted that postponement was for economic reasons not regulatory which seemed to be the party line) I could not get refund. That was all I was after. Spent 1 hour on the phone over 3 sessions trying to get it sorted but each time directed to the on-line complaints.

 

[Flashback]

Call centre could only offer re-route via BNE/SYD. Even speaking to supervisor (who admitted that postponement was for economic reasons not regulatory which seemed to be the party line) I could not get refund. That was all I was after. Spent 1 hour on the phone over 3 sessions trying to get it sorted but each time directed to the on-line complaints.

Welcome to AFF mcck. Were you able to speak to a supervisor?

 

[mcck]

Welcome to AFF mcck. Were you able to speak to a supervisor?

Yes. On my second call I insisted. The supervisor was quite sympathetic. I think this was all early in the piece as I had picked up on the postponement from a paragraph in The Age. Apparently there had been a leak and Virgin had not had the opportunity to inform any customers/passengers. My second call was before 0900 on the day of the news (18.8).

 

[Flashback]

Yes. On my second call I insisted. The supervisor was quite sympathetic. I think this was all early in the piece as I had picked up on the postponement from a paragraph in The Age. Apparently there had been a leak and Virgin had not had the opportunity to inform any customers/passengers. My second call was before 0900 on the day of the news (18.8).

I would suggest calling back now, given the news has been officially announced.... the 2nd call would have been too early still I think.

 

[MrGreg]

If you wanted a direct flight, why would you have wanted rebook with Air NZ?

Surely if Virgin were to change the flight plans in any way, you should be entitled to get a full refund regardless of the fare you purchased. Try going to Consumer affairs or something similar.

 

[Saab34]

Im in the same boat, although I booked onward Frontier connections. The problem is, if you still want that early morning arrival into LAX, they recommended me to go via BNE, but the BNE-LAX flights are not on the same days as MEL-LAX, plus with Frontier fare differences etc, its a bloody nightmare.

The outward journey is not really the problem, sure its still another stopover, but at least we still arrive during the morning on that day.

I have found this whole experience worse than dealing with that useless Tiger Airways philippine Call centre.I guess you get what you pay for, which wasn't much...sure glad I didn't dish out $2000 for this mess.

Still outrouges that they left their public dealings with this cough to the last minute.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Have been hit by the V Australia postponement of MEL-LAX flights. As travelling with 2 small kids only booked (in June) as it was direct flight, now offered re-route via SYD or BNE. Have so far spoken to call centre who cannot deal with complaints and filled in on-line form, with promise of reply within 21 days. We fly in 22. Is there any way I can actually speak to someone at Virgin who can deal with my complaints - initially wanted refund to book flights with Air NZ, but those tickets now gone, so now stuck with elongated travel and rebooking of car hire/accom at US end.

Hi mcck - like another poster I too was wondering why you would want to fly via AKL rather than SYD? But am I correct in thinking the new flight you have been offered is on a different day?

If it is a different day, and this might be a long shot, I wonder if you can dispute the charge with your credit card company? As in goods that have failed to be delivered? (I mean - you haven't got the tickets you originally paid for?)

(On other hand if the routing via SYD gets in same day and within a resonable time of your original arrival time then I don't think that there is a case for a refund.)

 

[vet]

June 09: The rumoured cancellation of direct Mel-LA flights were first posted on the net. Meantime it sold tickets, and MccK bought one for her herslf and her 2 children.

Circa July: V denied the rumours and claimed it didn't want to deign them with a response.

Later their media release quietly scotched the rumours in an article about its committment to the Melb-LA route. Meantime it sold tickets.

Meantime its Board, accountants and senior managers knew of forward bookings, budgeted expenses and possible factors that might force it to consider re-routing or sharing loads with Delta. Meantime it sold tickets.

The deferment of flights was announced officially. MccK learnt thru the Age, rather than from V, of a possible problem. V undoubtedly had phone numbers and email addresses, but it was Mcck who called them, not the other way around.

Only 3 weeks before her flight, MccK found out she and 2 kids will be re-routed via Sydney.

The rep didn't so much as offer a voucher of $x or free lounge access or whatever for the inconvenience.

A flight via Sydney just isn't what she thought she was buying. And then there can be added costs to the trip, such as cancellation fees on prepaid onward flights, etc.

QldMick has just learnt, from the web, that his flight Brisbane-LAX next January is via Sydney. Likewise he is not happy. His agent told him to cop the changed dates, the added hotel fees etc, and the hassles. He's posting that his $85k patronage of the VirginGroup will be going elsewhere.

Why Auckland? There are/were fares on other airlines that were comparable or less - if she could get a refund and book asap. But being given only 3 weeks to replan a holiday isn't impressive. Some people with 'maxed out' credit cards might not get a refund in time to book another airline. They might take a cynical view about the late notice as locking them in to a rerouted trip. Some might simply say, as they have on the web, they endured the hassles of the Boeing/VA delays and now feel their loyalty to the new airline isn't being repaid.

There might be better fares with better destinations that suit some, or extras. AirNZ will get me to SFO directly, Auckland has lounge access, the fare is cheaper, and I won't need a first class ticket on VirginAmerica. I'll do the same in February rather than risk being mucked around as I'm told by VA to not book hotels etc for my trips in Jan, march and April (but I have a prepaid holiday just as I did with Jetstar andAmex who ponied up after lawyers in LA were involved). I want certainty so November and Feb trips will be booked through another airline.

In short, people want what they paid for. And chose direct flights for a quick 14-17 hour flight rather than going to Sydney and languishing in transit.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

In short, people want what they paid for. And chose direct flights for a quick 14-17 hour flight rather than going to Sydney and languishing in transit.

Vet - thanks for the summary which i think is the same understanding we have all been working from.

Mcck says she has made a complaint that she booked non-stop and now has to fly via sydney.

in itself that argumet is ok.

But then it gets undone by saying 'I want to rebook via Auckland'. the person at Virgin would get confused as to what was being asked.

If mccks is saying that she needs to go via Auckland because there is no V Australia flight that will get into LAX same day, then that is a different story.

If the re-route being offered via SYD is same day, then I can't see why you would want a refund to travel via AKL? (Unless you are saying that you paid a premium for the non-stop service?)

It was just not clear from the original post what mcck was wanting and why (was it a non-stop flight or a flight arriving same day).

mcck - can you advise what cancellation fees were payable because of this change? I think you might have a case for claiming some things back. Or even from your travel insurance.

I think this amounts to a cancelled flight?

 

[markis10]

Vet - thanks for the summary which i think is the same understanding we have all been working from.

Mcck says she has made a complaint that she booked non-stop and now has to fly via sydney.

in itself that argumet is ok.

But then it gets undone by saying 'I want to rebook via Auckland'. the person at Virgin would get confused as to what was being asked.

If mccks is saying that she needs to go via Auckland because there is no V Australia flight that will get into LAX same day, then that is a different story.

The original departure was 9AM ex Mel, ex Sydney its 8PM, so that you are getting in close to 12 hours later and missing connections, coming back the SYD flight leaves two hours earlier, again impacting connections. The Air NZ option is not perfect but does allow for a better chance of not having to change connections.

 

[vet]

V's media release about coughet & Jo'burg says, in a short single line, they'll be flying Melb-LA 2 days a week from 1st December.

Yet the rep has just 'confirmed' there are flights in 2010 flying Mel-LA direct every day except Mondays into late March.

Is the media release wrong? Should the media release say 'but we're back to 6 days a week from ....'. Or are they selling tickets for 6 days a week and then hoping the public accept a reroute via Sydney and 'cop' any lost time, lost connections, extra hotels, extra cabs to/from hotels, wasted prepaid hotels at their destination, or whatever?

And surely they've known about this long enough to get emails to affected passengers, and give csr's authority to offer refunds, lounge access in Sydney or whatever. So far posts suggest passengers are expected to simply cop it sweet. And that's bad for future business imo.

Hopefully V will clear things up asap.

 

[N860CR]

Have you actually directly asked for a refund? I think you'll find that one will be available no questions asked due to the route change.

Unfortunatley, these things do happen with all airlines their responses are all the same. A few years ago I was booked SYD-SIN on Qantas and they changed the schedule quite a bit from a 10:30pm departure to an afternoon one which of course meant an extra nights accom in SIN. Obviously, they didn't pay it, and they never told me about the change (I found it myself a week before departure).

Everyone here will have similar stories for QF, JQ, DJ etc etc etc. The way to deal with it is get onto them early and be sure about what you want. IE: a refund, a reroute, change of date etc etc. Asking for something like lounge access is counter-productive as obviously it doesn't work to solve the problem.

Yes, its very inconvienient and can stuff all your plans around, but unfortunatley it happens and the best thing to do is just work around whats on offer.

 

[Travel Guru]

I too can't work out why you'd want to swap over to Air NZ via AKL, personally given the choice of via SYD or or via AKL, i'd go via Syd to get the longer flight time rather than having to wake kids up half way through.

TG

 

[vet]

Asking for something like lounge access is counter-productive as obviously it doesn't work to solve the problem.

Nothing short of flying as per the ticket will solve the problem.

If you have 2 kids as Mcck does, what are you going to do with them for hours at Sydney Airport or in Sydney's Transit area?

There's got to be something that doesn't cost VA much or a cent to placate those who might return to V in the future as happy campers.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Nothing short of flying as per the ticket will solve the problem.

If you have 2 kids as Mcck does, what are you going to do with them for hours at Sydney Airport or in Sydney's Transit area?

But vet that's not what mcck said! She said she wants to fly via AKL!!

What's the difference sitting for a couple of hours in AKL or a couple of hours in SYD?

Of course now that the the difference in timing has been explained by markis10 that seems to be the real reason why mcck wanted a refund and to fly via AKL.

Perhaps the best solution is to ask V Australia to route on the QF93 non-stop to LAX.

 

[N860CR]

In a perfect world, yes, but unfortunatley that just is not the case (and its not unique to Virgin - its the same with every airline).

It seems as though the airline has offered the most direct available route (which happens to be via Sydney) or a refund and thats all they are required to (and will) offer. A four hour connection, while it seems a lot, doesn't work out to much by the time you change terminals and board half an hour before departure.

While it does seem a little unfair, its something that we all have to go through occasionally. In place of trying to reorganise all the connections, I think the best course of action would be to move the Virgin service a day earlier and (if the connecting times in LAX don't work) spend one night in a hotel at LAX. Yep, it'll cost a little more (rooms at the airport are easily available for <$100AU) however it will avoid having to miss any connections.

Try and see the positives and take it as an extra night on the holiday.

 

[serfty]

... It seems as though the airline has offered the most direct available route (which happens to be via Sydney) or a refund and that's all they are required to (and will) offer. ...

I believe a refund was refused.

... Even speaking to supervisor (who admitted that postponement was for economic reasons not regulatory which seemed to be the party line) I could not get refund. That was all I was after. ...