Virgin Australia Involuntary Cabin Downgrade

[Viridis]

Just wondering what the process is here ….. first time I’ve experienced this. Yes, I know, pretty lucky

My wife and I were booked Business Class Sydney to Melbourne on VA a few weeks ago. The flight was cancelled and we were ‘re-booked’ on a flight 15mins earlier and involuntarily downgraded to economy. No options were offered or sought (we had to get to Melbourne)

The staff member in the Lounge assured us that the fares would be refunded (I assumed she meant the difference) - not put in a travel Bank - and because of the nature of the process it would be actioned as ‘high priority’ and back on my credit card within 5 business days.

I was suspicious and, predictably, nothing has happened in the ensuing 2-3weeks to convince me that my scepticism was misplaced. Actually, literally nothing has happened.

Looking at the status credits and points awarded VA downgraded us to the full economy flex fare - interestingly this was more than we paid for our Business Class tickets. Obviously the benefits of a Flex fare were unnecessary because we were at the airport ready to get on our flight. I just assume that VA was being a bit cheeky.

Given the amount of money involved I can’t be bothered pursuing this - which I guess means their strategy is working - but I’m just wondering what other people‘s experience of this is. Instinctively, I’d have thought a downgrade to the historical lowest published economy airfare for that flight, as a gesture of goodwill, would have at least been appropriate. But I have no experience of these issues so grateful for any insights

 

[Mattg]

A couple of points:

1. I thought VA's policy was to refund the difference between the Business Class fare paid and the lowest Economy fare that was available at the time of booking?

According to their website though, you need to actively request this by contacting the Guest Contact Centre or your travel agent (if you booked through an agent).

Guest Compensation Policy - customer service | Virgin Australia

You may be entitled to the assistance set out in this policy where you have a confirmed and/or ticketed reservation on a Virgin Australia flight and we need to make a change to your reservation before or on your day of travel.

www.virginaustralia.com

2. You are definitely entitled to claim an "Original Routing Credit" for the business class status credits.

 

[Viridis]

According to their website though, you need to actively request this by contacting the Guest Contact Centre or your travel agent (if you booked through an agent).

I think from a practical perspective we thought we’d done that because the staff member actioning the downgrade and re-seating said she would sort it

2. You are definitely entitled to claim an "Original Routing Credit" for the business class status credits.

I’ve just read that link you sent and I actually can’t find a reference for this. As it happens, I’m Platinum and my wife won’t achieve a status upgrade, even with the extra status credits, before her year is up - so no biggie.

But thanks very much for the info - interesting stuff, much appreciated

 

[ozstamps]

2. You are definitely entitled to claim an "Original Routing Credit" for the business class status credits.

Good luck with that one!

Spent an HOUR on the phone to some drone in a random overseas country last month over this. Endless earnest promises - nothing happened of course. The very SIMPLEST of things they're not empowered to do.

Welcome to Tiger #2!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A couple of points:

1. I thought VA's policy was to refund the difference between the Business Class fare paid and the lowest Economy fare that was available at the time of booking?

According to their website though, you need to actively request this by contacting the Guest Contact Centre or your travel agent (if you booked through an agent).

Guest Compensation Policy - customer service | Virgin Australia

You may be entitled to the assistance set out in this policy where you have a confirmed and/or ticketed reservation on a Virgin Australia flight and we need to make a change to your reservation before or on your day of travel.

www.virginaustralia.com

2. You are definitely entitled to claim an "Original Routing Credit" for the business class status credits.

It doesn’t say the lowest economy fare, it says the refund will the difference between fare class you paid, and the fare class you travelled in. That sounds like if you travelled flex, you might not get a difference at all!

Looking at the terms and conditions of the double points promo, it looks like ‘fare class’ refers to the specific subsets of fares in each cabin, rather than the cabin as a whole.

 

[Mattg]

It doesn’t say the lowest economy fare, it says the refund will the difference between fare class you paid, and the fare class you travelled in. That sounds like if you travelled flex, you might not get a difference at all!

Looking at the terms and conditions of the double points promo, it looks like ‘fare class’ refers to the specific subsets of fares in each cabin, rather than the cabin as a whole.

Hmm, I think the T&Cs may have changed since a few years back. It used to be based on the lower fare available at time of booking in the cabin class flown, not the fare class.

If they've moved the OP to a fully flex fare and now won't refund anything, that's not really fair. But it sounds like the OP did not actively submit a claim yet (because they assumed the VA staff member would do so, which it appears they did not)?

 

[RooFlyer]

The staff member in the Lounge assured us that the fares would be refunded (I assumed she meant the difference) - not put in a travel Bank - and because of the nature of the process it would be actioned as ‘high priority’ and back on my credit card within 5 business days.

An involuntary downgrade from J to Y happened to me 6 weeks ago after my original flight was cancelled. Not sure what whY fare bucket I went to.

I got a 7,000 point 'goodwill' into my account almost immediately and 'fare difference' of $100 credited to my credit card EDIT: 2 weeks later. Both of these were volunteered to me in the course of the third call on the day, trying to get a satisfactory replacement flight CBR-xMEL-HBA. THAT was a hassle!!!

In view of the fact of the refund (even though it probably wasn't the true difference between whY and J on the day of purchase), I didn't think an ORC claim would be successful, so I didn't claim. Probably wrong, but no biggie for me.

 

[Mattg]

I’ve just read that link you sent and I actually can’t find a reference for this. As it happens, I’m Platinum and my wife won’t achieve a status upgrade, even with the extra status credits, before her year is up - so no biggie.

The Original Routing Credit is separate to a partial refund for the downgrade (and is not covered on that linked page). You'd need to contact the Velocity Membership Contact Centre to request an Original Routing Credit.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hmm, I think the T&Cs may have changed since a few years back. It used to be based on the lower fare available at time of booking in the cabin class flown, not the fare class.

If they've moved the OP to a fully flex fare and now won't refund anything, that's not really fair. But it sounds like the OP did not actively submit a claim yet (because they assumed the VA staff member would do so, which it appears they did not)?

Hmmm. This puts it in line with Qantas.

the refund really should be between the fare paid and the lowest fare paid by any passenger in the cabin flown!

 

[Viridis]

The Original Routing Credit is separate to a partial refund for the downgrade (and is not covered on that linked page). You'd need to contact the Velocity Membership Contact Centre to request an Original Routing Credit.

Ahh, okay. Fair enough.

As I said, in view of the potential ’reward’ for time wasted on the phone, I’m not inclined to pursue this. A little disappointed one even has to - s*** happens for sure, but this is hardly stellar customer service, recovery or retention

 

[JohnK]

It doesn’t say the lowest economy fare, it says the refund will the difference between fare class you paid, and the fare class you travelled in. That sounds like if you travelled flex, you might not get a difference at all!

Looking at the terms and conditions of the double points promo, it looks like ‘fare class’ refers to the specific subsets of fares in each cabin, rather than the cabin as a whole.

This then becomes the same as Qantas? Pay for discount business, downgraded to full fare economy at the last minute in the last row in middle seat and you owe the airline the difference between cheap business purchased ~11 months ago and last minute exhorbitant economy that nobody purchases.

Seriously? This practice needs to stop. Offering a full refund and fly economy for free would be the ideal solution. And then I wouldn't ask for compensation either.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This then becomes the same as Qantas? Pay for discount business, downgraded to full fare economy at the last minute in the last row in middle seat and you owe the airline the difference between cheap business purchased ~11 months ago and last minute exhorbitant economy that nobody purchases.

Seriously? This practice needs to stop. Offering a full refund and fly economy for free would be the ideal solution. And then I wouldn't ask for compensation either.

It seems so. Although from a contractual aspect I don’t see how the passenger is bound by either airline. the compensation is outlined in places on the website that you wouldn’t necessarily look when buying the ticket, so I don’t know how it can be enforced.

It’s why I recommend taking a screenshot of all applicable fares when making your purchase. That way if anything happens you have a record of the lowest applicable fare you could have paid in the lower cabin.

 

[A321]

It seems so. Although from a contractual aspect I don’t see how the passenger is bound by either airline. the compensation is outlined in places on the website that you wouldn’t necessarily look when buying the ticket, so I don’t know how it can be enforced.

It’s why I recommend taking a screenshot of all applicable fares when making your purchase. That way if anything happens you have a record of the lowest applicable fare you could have paid in the lower cabin.

This would make sense, but there are often times when business is cheaper than an Economy fare of any class.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This would make sense, but there are often times when business is cheaper than an Economy fare of any class.

Fair point, at least on VA and ZL!

An EU261 equivalent would solve this, providing a 75% refund of the fare paid.

 

[SydneySwan]

Fair point, at least on VA and ZL!

An EU261 equivalent would solve this, providing a 75% refund of the fare paid.

And of course would provide a massive disincentive to the airline to behave like this.

 

[Deon]

Earlier this month, I was booked to fly SYD-MEL as a return leg of a journey. It was a revenue Business ticket in fare class D. The flight was due to depart at 1700 and I received a text message just 2 hours earlier at 1457 to indicate I have been rebooked onto VA886 at 1930 (which, eventually departed at 2115...)

I spoke to the call centre about my options, who I have to say were incredibly unhelpful and not in the least bit sympathetic to the situation I was in. I was told I had to be pushed onto VA886 and there was no Business availability, so was given a seat toward the back of the plane - not even YX.

I went back and forth with the customer service agent who also offered that I could take a 0700 flight the next morning out of Sydney which had Business availability, but she couldn't answer my questions around whether Virgin Australia would compensate me for the extra expenses this would incur (accommodation, car rental, etc). She said I would have to make the change, pay the hotel and other expenses myself, then submit a claim and MAYBE it would be approved, but she still couldn't tell me for sure, or how much. When I prompted her that this puts me in a dangerous position of paying out-of-pocket and potentially not being reimbursed her awe-inspiring response was "yeah". She said any decisions like this would be made by another team who I was not allowed to speak to, and there was no other representative/supervisor/etc who could assist.

I eventually just took the evening flight and flew home to Melbourne.

Fast forward 2 weeks and I'm looking at my Velocity statement, and I'm pretty concerned to see what has transpired since:

• No contact at all from VA - no email, no call, no acknowledgement at all that the downgrade ever took place
• No credit, no refund, no compensation at all
• But the one thing they did remember to do was adjust the status credits from 55 down to 25 for the flight

On face value, it appears Virgin Australia has gone out of their way to ensure their financial loss is limited from the incident (reducing the amount of status credits awarded) but my financial loss is sustained (no refund, no credit, etc). If only one happened, I'd be more understanding that it was just overlooked, but the fact VA corrected the mistake in their favour only is a little concerning.

Surely they keep a record of people who have been downgraded, etc - especially since I called the call centre? Is this expected that they're quick to pull the SCs, but I have to chase them for a refund?

 

[odysseus]

Personally, I believe the treatment is sub-par. However, that also appears to be the standard used in the Australian aviation industry, rather than an indvidual incident or something directed at you.

Regarding the refund, I believe it is left to the customer to chase it up with the call centre - although once requested, it should be forthcoming. The calculation is another matter, and it's recommended that passengers again have to cover themselves by taking screenshots of economy fares at the time they book - as you note you were awarded 25 SC, which reflects a Flex fare for the route... which has a price that is often not far from entry level business saver fares.

The SC award and the ticketing/refund are completely separate systems, so the SC flows through from the ticket you flew on e.g. if you had been re-routed theoretically on a business class flight from Syd-ADL, then back ADL-MEL, you would wind up with 2x 55SC credits, so that award is not because of malicious actions, but just credited due to the actual flights you flew on. However, the need to chase up refunds and argue amounts is not fair treatment imo.

 

[Unclebully81]

Just had a very similar experience, was booked in Biz with a D class fare ZQN-SYD-BNE today (03FEB) got a “Flight Change Notification“ at 0420 local time (03FEB). Was advised I was now on the direct flight same day ZQN-BNE. No mention of a downgrade to economy whatsoever. Tried to call the contact centre struggled to get any info out of them for the itinerary change was initially told to accept the change or take a refund. Again no mention of the downgrade to economy. Was just told the change in flights was due to a schedule change.

I had booked ZQN-SYD-BNE for the additional status credits I need to retain platinum for another year. So wanted to make sure the schedule change to the direct flight wouldn’t impact my points earn. Agent on the phone couldn’t advise and suggested I call back after 0700 AEST so I could ask another team.

I accepted the schedule change and then discovered to my surprise I was downgraded to economy on the direct flight. Called the contact centre back, was informed I was downgraded due to a schedule change and a change of aircraft type with less business class seating - yet no published schedule changes to the aircraft on my original route ZQN-SYD-BNE, still showing a B737-800 on both sectors online. I asked to please be put back on the that flight was told not possible no business class seats between ZQN & any Australian ports on 03FEB - started to feel like they had oversold biz class and I was the one to get shunted. I asked about the refund for the downgrade and was offered just over $300 for the one-way flight I had paid over $900 for, I could have purchased an economy ticket for only $325 when I brought my fare - I had the screenshot to prove it. I asked for the matter to be escalated to a supervisor or team leader was put on hold for 32min before being cut off.

I called back and insisted I be connected to a premium service supervisor to discuss the issues was then passed between three offshore call centre staff before reaching an Australian based team member. The team member looked into the notes and couldn’t work out what had happened - she spoke to another team member or supervisor and then came back to advise there had been an IT issue/error and as a result I was now with out a seat in biz class, I could take a downgrade on todays direct flight or she was able to offer the last biz seat on tomorrow’s flight ZQN-BNE. When I asked about reimbursement for costs was told it wasn’t even an option, as VA had offered me a seat on todays flight but in economy or the biz seat on the next days flight. I even requested an email or letter outlining the “schedule change” so I could explore options with my travel insurer - was told that it wasn’t possible for VA to supply.

I raised the issue of original routing earn for points and status credit, was told I would have to call back Monday, after the flight and raise it with the velocity team.

I have been a fan of VA and a platinum member for over 10 years but the way things have played out today have left me feeling pretty disappointed with the level of service and the almost deceptive practice of issuing a schedule change notice without informing the passenger of a downgrade before the accept.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Just had a very similar experience, was booked in Biz with a D class fare ZQN-SYD-BNE today (03FEB) got a “Flight Change Notification“ at 0420 local time (03FEB). Was advised I was now on the direct flight same day ZQN-BNE. No mention of a downgrade to economy whatsoever. Tried to call the contact centre struggled to get any info out of them for the itinerary change was initially told to accept the change or take a refund. Again no mention of the downgrade to economy. Was just told the change in flights was due to a schedule change.

I had booked ZQN-SYD-BNE for the additional status credits I need to retain platinum for another year. So wanted to make sure the schedule change to the direct flight wouldn’t impact my points earn. Agent on the phone couldn’t advise and suggested I call back after 0700 AEST so I could ask another team.

I accepted the schedule change and then discovered to my surprise I was downgraded to economy on the direct flight. Called the contact centre back, was informed I was downgraded due to a schedule change and a change of aircraft type with less business class seating - yet no published schedule changes to the aircraft on my original route ZQN-SYD-BNE, still showing a B737-800 on both sectors online. I asked to please be put back on the that flight was told not possible no business class seats between ZQN & any Australian ports on 03FEB - started to feel like they had oversold biz class and I was the one to get shunted. I asked about the refund for the downgrade and was offered just over $300 for the one-way flight I had paid over $900 for, I could have purchased an economy ticket for only $325 when I brought my fare - I had the screenshot to prove it. I asked for the matter to be escalated to a supervisor or team leader was put on hold for 32min before being cut off.

I called back and insisted I be connected to a premium service supervisor to discuss the issues was then passed between three offshore call centre staff before reaching an Australian based team member. The team member looked into the notes and couldn’t work out what had happened - she spoke to another team member or supervisor and then came back to advise there had been an IT issue/error and as a result I was now with out a seat in biz class, I could take a downgrade on todays direct flight or she was able to offer the last biz seat on tomorrow’s flight ZQN-BNE. When I asked about reimbursement for costs was told it wasn’t even an option, as VA had offered me a seat on todays flight but in economy or the biz seat on the next days flight. I even requested an email or letter outlining the “schedule change” so I could explore options with my travel insurer - was told that it wasn’t possible for VA to supply.

I raised the issue of original routing earn for points and status credit, was told I would have to call back Monday, after the flight and raise it with the velocity team.

I have been a fan of VA and a platinum member for over 10 years but the way things have played out today have left me feeling pretty disappointed with the level of service and the almost deceptive practice of issuing a schedule change notice without informing the passenger of a downgrade before the accept.

So you are VA Plat on a paid J fare and they changed you to a direct flight but with a down grade to Y?

That’s pretty ordinary.
I’m not familiar with the VA email addresses as I gave up flying them years ago but I’d be passing this up the food chain to their head of customer loyalty as it sounds like yet another airline that perhaps isn’t match fit.

 

[RooFlyer]

I’m not familiar with the VA email addresses

For info of the other posters here: [email protected] I e-mailed them last week and got a personal reply back in a day.