Velocity/virgin inflexibility

[pointwilliams]

Sorry for the rant..... I travelled from SYD to ROK on Mon 20th, returning on the 21st. I booked a Flexi fare going up and a Saver fare coming back - I booked about 3 weeks in advance. I am a Gold Velocity Member, so I thought I would take advantage of the Upgrade to Business deal they have on for the SYD-ROK leg (which was a connector through BNE). I duly rang the Contact Centre about a day after I had booked (so 3 weeks ago) and was told there were no upgrades on the SYD-ROK Flexi fare as the flight was pretty much booked up. Ok, understand, as these can be pretty busy flights (mining etc). The rep did say ring back in a few weeks to see how the flight is looking. Did that last week, and no, the flight is pretty full, no Business seats available. Tried again at the Sydney Lounge an hour before flying, they said no couldn't do, flight was full etc. I get on the plane and you guessed it, not full, in fact only 2 Business seats taken out of 8 for the Syd-BNE leg. So in Brisbane at the Lounge I ask if I can be upgraded - this time I said I am happy to pay full fare - and no she couldn't do, sorry, apologies etc....

I get on the BNE-ROK leg, and you guessed it - not one person sitting in Business - 8 seats in total empty - and I was prepared to pay full fare!!!!

Same for the trip home, which was the direct flight from ROK to SYD - Asked at the Virgin Checkin if I could upgrade to Business and willing to pay - "no we can only sell Economy seats here, we're not allowed to sell Business". I get on the plane and a completely empty Business Cabin (all-be-it the old PE seating arrangement)!

I can't see the logic in this bizarre sales approach - they are more than happy to have empty Business Seats even when someone is willing to pay full fare. I understand the Points Upgrade for Gold and Platinum Members is based upon availability of Premium Rewards Seats, but surely 1 day before or at least on the day of the flight they can make a flexible call and sell the bloody things? To me it is just a silly example of how inflexible their business approach is. Nobody could make a decision and earn the company some money, not the online Call Centre, not the Lounge Staff (in 2 locations) and not the Check-in Staff at the Regional Airport.

Ok, end of rant - apologies....Any advice/Comments???

 

[Fruitcake]

ROK isn't part of the business class network:
http://www.virginaustralia.com/cs/groups/internetcontent/documents/webcontent/~edisp/u_024308.jpg

The correctness or incorrectness of that policy is another discussion, but it does explain why the seats weren't sold to you out of ROK.

And on your note that you'd have been happy to receive J service in the old PE seats, consider the hell that was raised in another thread when Virgin was selling business on routes where there was a high chance of being allocated an aircraft with PE seats!

 

[medhead]

You can thank a group of people from AFF for this sorry state of affairs. They all ranted and howled about the horror and deception of getting a PE seat when purchasing business class. (oh the humanity!) Shortly afterwards VA introduced this don't sell the PE seats policy. Hopefully the people responsible will get on here and offer you their apologies for screwing it up for you. They damn well should if they don't.

 

[Fruitcake]

Although I just noticed that AYQ is part of the business class network! Admittedly I've never flown there (or been there) or know anything about the makeup of pax on that route, one would think that if AYQ can support J then ROK (which I assume has a lot of business traffic) shouldn't have any problems at all.

 

[loobloke]

Although I just noticed that AYQ is part of the business class network! Admittedly I've never flown there (or been there) or know anything about the makeup of pax on that route, one would think that if AYQ can support J then ROK (which I assume has a lot of business traffic) shouldn't have any problems at all.

It's serviced by a E190 which they still sell as business. The old PE product on the 737-700 will not have business offerings..

 

[firefox]

VA have lost so far about 5K worth of flights from my business and myself, because of the new policy. (It all went to Q) as we could not arrange seats on planes (even travelling between bne-mel) as they were 737-700 planes.. I am sure i will get the why don't you book a Y but the fact is VA lost that money!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

You can thank a group of people from AFF for this sorry state of affairs. They all ranted and howled about the horror and deception of getting a PE seat when purchasing business class. (oh the humanity!)

I don't often disagree with you medhead, but this is pure unadulterated drivel. The OP can thank Virgin actually, as DJ have made an executive decision not to include ROK as a J serviced destination. As for people "ranting and howling" about not getting the product they paid for, if you decide to buy Porsche and get delivered a Volkswagon beetle, don't howl! That's just life!.........Rubbish. That's a breach of the trades practices legislation and verrrrry poor business sense.

It's serviced by a E190 which they still sell as business. The old PE product on the 737-700 will not have business offerings..

They aren't selling business at all, in/out of ROK regardless of aircraft.

we could not arrange seats on planes (even travelling between bne-mel) as they were 737-700 planes.. I am sure i will get the why don't you book a Y but the fact is VA lost that money!

That's fine, DJ can't roll out a entire new fleet overnight. Not selling J when they cannot deliver J is the correct business decision. It is your choice which class on which airline you purchase and no one has an issue with that. The fact is DJ has not lost money as they couldn't supply the product you wanted. The fact is DJ did the correct thing and offered you only what they could deliver, which unfortunately is not what you wished to purchase. Maybe in the future, they can supply the product you wish to purchase on the route/time you wish to fly.

 

[medhead]

I don't often disagree with you medhead, but this is pure unadulterated drivel. The OP can thank Virgin actually, as DJ have made an executive decision not to include ROK as a J serviced destination. As for people "ranting and howling" about not getting the product they paid for, if you decide to buy Porsche and get delivered a Volkswagon beetle, don't howl! That's just life!.........Rubbish. That's a breach of the trades practices legislation and verrrrry poor business sense.

the more relevant information is what was VA selling in flights to Rocky, before the self appointed up holders of all that is good had their rant on here.

You car analogy is exceedingly poor. In any case both of those are Porsche machines. Frankly, I'd rather have a tiger or mark IV.


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[markis10]

the more relevant information is what was VA selling in flights to Rocky, before the self appointed up holders of all that is good had their rant on here.

The short answer is the same they are selling now, ROK along with HVB, MCY etc have never had J offerings promised or sold, because they are not part of the J network as it stands.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer..../no-business-class-premium-economy-35546.html

 

[rockplat]

As mentioned, . DJ do not sell Business or PE into or out of Rockhampton anymore. While that in itself is dissapointing (as rocky is my home airport), I think people need to chill out! QF do not offer a premium product out of ROK either.

 

[Fruitcake]

the more relevant information is what was VA selling in flights to Rocky, before the self appointed up holders of all that is good had their rant on here.

This thread from early January (before the 'rogue business class cabin' problem arose) indicates that no J class was being sold in/out of ROK, and that the list of Y-only ports was always part of the plan:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer..../no-business-class-premium-economy-35546.html

So it doesn't look like the aircraft servicing the route is the problem, it's just a policy decision not to sell J out of ROK, and I imagine that could be driven by lots of factors. I can't imagine it's solely based on an express desire to have four/eight empty seats at the front of E190s/737s that fly out of ROK.

 

[serfty]

the more relevant information is what was VA selling in flights to Rocky, before the self appointed up holders of all that is good had their rant on here.
...

Ot, to put it another way - did DJ ever sell PE on these ROK routes?

 

[Fruitcake]

The opening lines of the thread linked above:

I have just been looking for some flight options to Rockhampton later this month out of Brisbane and I noticed that the Premium Economy seating is available up to and including the 17th of January.

 

[markis10]

Ot, to put it another way - did DJ ever sell PE on these ROK routes?

DJ sold PE on every route.

 

[medhead]

DJ sold PE on every route.

So until VA responded to feedback on AFF the OP could have got a PE seat on their flights instead of watching empty seats? (for whatever cost)


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[markis10]

So until VA responded to feedback on AFF the OP could have got a PE seat on their flights instead of watching empty seats? (for whatever cost)


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Absolutely not, when the j expansion was announced and PE discontinued, it was made clear at the time the ROK along with other cities would not be getting J, it had nothing to do with subsequent feedback via AFF or other channels.

 

[eastwest101]

I don't understand why Virgin didn't just offer PE fares for sale on "rogue" aircraft (unrefitted B737-700s and -800s and E190s) that were still in the fleet, and J fares in the equipment that had proper J seats (A330's, refitted B737-800s and refitted B737-700s).

I am guessing that either their IT booking system couldn't do it, or they really have no idea about what aircraft is going to be flying where on a day-to-day basis.

Flying empty business cabins around the countryside where people are unable to buy the seats is just business stupidity, you may as well go and throw lead ballast in your operating aircraft.....

 

[Fruitcake]

At the route level, the only thing I can think of is that perhaps J standard catering couldn't be sourced in these ports? And maybe some sort of galley limitation means you can't just onload extra meals for the return sector? That's an extremely thin argument for not being able to offer J but it's the best I can think of. I agree that it's unlikely to simply be the result of a conscious decision to haul a bunch of heavy, empty seats around.

But at the 'rogue aircraft' level, I'm not a fleet planner, but tickets are sold almost twelve months ahead of time, and I doubt there's any reasonable chance to know exactly which one of the 70 737s in the fleet will be allocated to a given flight. I think that would limit the ability to cherry pick PE vs J sales.

 

[markis10]

At the route level, the only thing I can think of is that perhaps J standard catering couldn't be sourced in these ports? And maybe some sort of galley limitation means you can't just onload extra meals for the return sector? That's an extremely thin argument for not being able to offer J but it's the best I can think of. I agree that it's unlikely to simply be the result of a conscious decision to haul a bunch of heavy, empty seats around.

But at the 'rogue aircraft' level, I'm not a fleet planner, but tickets are sold almost twelve months ahead of time, and I doubt there's any reasonable chance to know exactly which one of the 70 737s in the fleet will be allocated to a given flight. I think that would limit the ability to cherry pick PE vs J sales.

All the non J ports will have ATRs as their majority flight serviced aircraft soon, and don't have a J competitor.

 

[Nigelinoz]

All the non J ports will have ATRs as their majority flight serviced aircraft soon, and don't have a J competitor.

Even a route like ABX-SYD currently serviced by E-190's?
Cheers
N'oz