Velocity reward seats on Etihad to Europe

[davidhes]

Hi all,

Just after some advice reference booking velocity business reward seats on Etihad to Europe. On 23 April 2017 my wife and I along with my best friend and his wife are planning a 5 week trip to Europe. Our plan is to fly into Rome and out of London. We are planning parts of Italy, Munich, Lucerne, Paris, London. The idea is that both couples would use their velocity points to book business reward seats from Brisbane to Rome via Abu Dhabi. Then pay for return leg premium economy on Singapore airlines from London to Brisbane (get those important status credits to keep my gold ticking).

Now the problem we are facing is that we want 4 reward seats, 2 for each couple. Wont be in the one booking and we are happy to split up couples and have 1 fly via Brisbane and the other Sydney or Melbourne if we can't get 4 seats out of Brisbane. There are flights to Abu Dhabi that all leave various times throughout the day from Brisbane, Syd and Melbourne. The problem is there is only one connecting flight the next morning to Rome from Abu Dhabi. Would there actually be 4 reward seats on this flight? Surely virgin wouldn't show BN, SYD, MEL to Rome as available options if technically as soon as 2 people booked seats on any one of those flights, it wouldn't be available to the other cities as the 2 seats on the Abu Dhabi to Rome seat are now gone? Or would they?... Even though there would likely be at least 2 reward seats on the other 2 Australia to Abu Dhabi city flights.

Our other backup option is flying Singapore airlines to Munich and changing the direction we travel to London. Don't want to fly Singapore to Rome as they use their old 777-200. Not wasting points on that. Can book 4 reward seats on the Munich flight for the 23rd right now. But it is a 17hr layover in Singapore... Less then ideal and 1 less day in Europe. Also worried that those 4 seats will be gone by the time we wait until the end of the month for Etihad seats to open..

Anyone have any advice for my situation and know what our chances are of 4 reward seats across 2 bookings in the 1 day?

Cheers,

David

 

[theblank]

Have a look at reward flights from AUH to wherever and back. You will notice that every flight, everyday is available as a reward seat. It's only the flights from Australia to AUH that have scatty availability.

 

[davidhes]

Have a look at reward flights from AUH to wherever and back. You will notice that every flight, everyday is available as a reward seat. It's only the flights from Australia to AUH that have scatty availability.

Hm tried this for AUH to Rome for dates in March 2017 and I could not find any days where I could get 4 guest seats. Could only get 2 each day to display.. Seems to be the same availability as virgin is showing..

edit: also tried AUH to other European cities for March next year and could not find any days where I could book 4 seats. Not sure if that means there are only 2 reward seats on most flights or because I'm no status they only show me 2 seats of availability. Obviously we are booking in 2 separate bookings so don't need to see 4 exactly, just know that there are 4 there.

 

[jneufeld]

I'm not sure where you are looking because reward seats go on sale 331 days in advance which means the latest available is April 1 2017.

 

[davidhes]

I'm not sure where you are looking because reward seats go on sale 331 days in advance which means the latest available is April 1 2017.

Sorry meant March. I'm flicking between Singapore airlines and Etihad looking at stuff. Getting myself mixed up. But yes in March I cannot see a single day where I can book 4 reward seats.

 

[Oxy]

Have you checked how much one way PE flights for 4 would be? Buying O/W tickets is always an expensive way of doing it, unless your going back in a year?
I would try and get enough points for return first, or buy 2 tickets and use points for 2. That would fix the issue of requiring 4 reward seats too.

The NAB 250000 home loan offer is back.

 

[davidhes]

Have you checked how much one way PE flights for 4 would be? Buying O/W tickets is always an expensive way of doing it, unless your going back in a year?
I would try and get enough points for return first, or buy 2 tickets and use points for 2. That would fix the issue of requiring 4 reward seats too.

The NAB 250000 home loan offer is back.

Ok I think I've come up with a plan that works. Required some lateral thinking. Thinking Singapore airlines business from Brisbane to Zurich. Can get 4 reward seats for the day we want right now on their website. So just need to convert the points to KrisFlyer. It's $500 of fees per person vs $100 on Etihad but 25000 or so less points, even after conversion. So fairly comparable I guess.

So we would do our trip reverse sort of instead of working our way up and across Europe. Would go Zurich (Lucerne), Munich, Venice, Florence, Venice, Rome, Paris, London. Going by train on all of those except flying Rome to Paris.

I actually have enough for return business but our friends don't. It's ~$2300 per person one way premium economy on Singapore. Yes you get ripped off a bit as you can book PE for ~$3000 return. It's ~$7000 for return business.

So per couple if we pay for 2 premium economy return flight it's $4600 plus $1000 of fees from business on way over. Total of $5600 for flights for 2 people. Seems like pretty decent value?

Plus 360 status credits wth status pooling for the return flight as it is premium economy to Singapore and then regular economy to Brisbane. Keeps my gold active for another year with the 4 domestic flights I do and need for the sectors.

 

[Lemon_Party]

Ok I think I've come up with a plan that works. Required some lateral thinking. Thinking Singapore airlines business from Brisbane to Zurich. Can get 4 reward seats for the day we want right now on their website. So just need to convert the points to KrisFlyer. It's $500 of fees per person vs $100 on Etihad but 25000 or so less points, even after conversion. So fairly comparable I guess.

So we would do our trip reverse sort of instead of working our way up and across Europe. Would go Zurich (Lucerne), Munich, Venice, Florence, Venice, Rome, Paris, London. Going by train on all of those except flying Rome to Paris.

I actually have enough for return business but our friends don't. It's ~$2300 per person one way premium economy on Singapore. Yes you get ripped off a bit as you can book PE for ~$3000 return. It's ~$7000 for return business.

So per couple if we pay for 2 premium economy return flight it's $4600 plus $1000 of fees from business on way over. Total of $5600 for flights for 2 people. Seems like pretty decent value?

Plus 360 status credits wth status pooling for the return flight as it is premium economy to Singapore and then regular economy to Brisbane. Keeps my gold active for another year with the 4 domestic flights I do and need for the sectors.

There are some bonuses out on miles purchases with Alaska/American/Avianca at the moment. You *may* be able to buy enough miles for business class rewards back for $2300 each instead of flying PE.

Would mean you'd miss out on the SCs though...

 

[Oxy]

Ok I think I've come up with a plan that works. Required some lateral thinking. Thinking Singapore airlines business from Brisbane to Zurich. Can get 4 reward seats for the day we want right now on their website. So just need to convert the points to KrisFlyer. It's $500 of fees per person vs $100 on Etihad but 25000 or so less points, even after conversion. So fairly comparable I guess.

Don't forget that the Velocity redemption rates are changing on 1st June, so if you are willing to risk waiting to book, you will only need 139k Velocity points if $$$ are a concern.

$2300 P.P O/W is pretty steep for PE considering it only 1 sector. Y can be had for around $1200-$1300, so you are essentially paying $1000 for a 12h sector in PE, plus a higher SC earn. That's how I would break it down.

As mentioned, personally I would look for better value from that $, buying points looks good at the moment.

 

[davidhes]

Don't forget that the Velocity redemption rates are changing on 1st June, so if you are willing to risk waiting to book, you will only need 139k Velocity points if $$$ are a concern.

$2300 P.P O/W is pretty steep for PE considering it only 1 sector. Y can be had for around $1200-$1300, so you are essentially paying $1000 for a 12h sector in PE, plus a higher SC earn. That's how I would break it down.

As mentioned, personally I would look for better value from that $, buying points looks good at the moment.

The difference in taxes aren't as big of a concern as getting the seats. Finding any saver reward seat availability on Singapore seems to be near impossible on the velocity website. Yet there is plenty of availability on singapores own site. The reduced points and likely lower fees on velocities website after June 1 is definitely appealing but I don't think I want to risk waiting that long. Going to book Monday if everything goes to plan. Touch wood.

As as far as the return goes.. Seems like buying points is a potential option however I just read a guide about Avianca miles on points hacks saying that your account had to be open before the current deal started to be eligible for the bonus points? Is that true? I just opened an account now. Also I can't seem to see any availability when I search for flights for next year. Search London to Brisbane on Star Alliance for dates in March to test and nothing comes up. Not sure that the AA deal is cost effective?

If I do miss out on those status credits it's likely I will lose my gold though.. Won't be doing any other big trips before my review date after that date and I'll likely only have around 100 or so status credits on my account. Would be sad to lose it for the following year but flying business back would definitely be more comfortable..

 

[Lemon_Party]

The difference in taxes aren't as big of a concern as getting the seats. Finding any saver reward seat availability on Singapore seems to be near impossible on the velocity website. Yet there is plenty of availability on singapores own site. The reduced points and likely lower fees on velocities website after June 1 is definitely appealing but I don't think I want to risk waiting that long. Going to book Monday if everything goes to plan. Touch wood.

As as far as the return goes.. Seems like buying points is a potential option however I just read a guide about Avianca miles on points hacks saying that your account had to be open before the current deal started to be eligible for the bonus points? Is that true? I just opened an account now. Also I can't seem to see any availability when I search for flights for next year. Search London to Brisbane on Star Alliance for dates in March to test and nothing comes up. Not sure that the AA deal is cost effective?

If I do miss out on those status credits it's likely I will lose my gold though.. Won't be doing any other big trips before my review date after that date and I'll likely only have around 100 or so status credits on my account. Would be sad to lose it for the following year but flying business back would definitely be more comfortable..

Point hacks is usually pretty reliable - I know American require you to have had account for 30 days before you can buy. I did something similar to you and bought (via buying AA points) CDG-AUH-PER in F then J for around $2,700 each, but this was before the recent points table devaluation.

Another option you may wish to look at for return is to fly to KL or Singapore. You can get paid fares in business starting from $1,800 (Saudia?!) but a lot of options from $2k upwards. That's looking from CDG departure. If you are tied to UK remember they have high departure tax on premium cabins which pushes price up. Best to aim elsewhere if you can.

Of course you'll need the time and inclination to book an onwards flight from Asia, but I'd agree with deeskick - $2,300 for a one way flight with a PE leg seems steep and wouldn't be worth it for me.

 

[davidhes]

Point hacks is usually pretty reliable - I know American require you to have had account for 30 days before you can buy. I did something similar to you and bought (via buying AA points) CDG-AUH-PER in F then J for around $2,700 each, but this was before the recent points table devaluation.

Another option you may wish to look at for return is to fly to KL or Singapore. You can get paid fares in business starting from $1,800 (Saudia?!) but a lot of options from $2k upwards. That's looking from CDG departure. If you are tied to UK remember they have high departure tax on premium cabins which pushes price up. Best to aim elsewhere if you can.

Of course you'll need the time and inclination to book an onwards flight from Asia, but I'd agree with deeskick - $2,300 for a one way flight with a PE leg seems steep and wouldn't be worth it for me.

Damn. I don't meet either programs criteria then if point hacks is indeed correct. Not that I can book the return leg yet anyway. Have signed up to both now and hopefully another deal may come up.

Really that cheap for business fares to Singapore?? I'll happily fly out of Paris to Singapore of KL if I can get business for that. Can get a cheap Y flight from Singapore back to Aus.

 

[Lemon_Party]

Damn. I don't meet either programs criteria then if point hacks is indeed correct. Not that I can book the return leg yet anyway. Have signed up to both now and hopefully another deal may come up.

Really that cheap for business fares to Singapore?? I'll happily fly out of Paris to Singapore of KL if I can get business for that. Can get a cheap Y flight from Singapore back to Aus.

I don't know your exact dates, but did a quick Kayak search on March next year one way to get those fares. A bit of time on google flights and you should get some good options. Happy hunting!

 

[greenfish]

A couple of other thoughts:

- You'll save money by flying into London and out of Rome (or elsewhere in Europe) - the saving in taxes will be significant - the APD from the UK is massive on J fares.
- Some cities are cheaper than others in Europe for your Krisflyer redemption. 68,000 points including online 15% discount for Amsterdam and Rome for example back to Brisbane

 

[davidhes]

A couple of other thoughts:

- You'll save money by flying into London and out of Rome (or elsewhere in Europe) - the saving in taxes will be significant - the APD from the UK is massive on J fares.
- Some cities are cheaper than others in Europe for your Krisflyer redemption. 68,000 points including online 15% discount for Amsterdam and Rome for example back to Brisbane

Thanks for the tips and ideas guys. I think I've come up with a good idea and am running it by my friend and his wife. If they both sign up to my velocity Amex referral link and get 80k each, they will have 440,000 points. I already have 420,000 atm. This gives me another 40k and enough for us both to fly return business on Singapore. I can get 4 reward seats on the way back with a test run if we fly out of Manchester. We were actually thinkin of going to York for a couple of nights anyway so flying out of there makes sense. The fees from Manchester are $750aud each. So would be $1000 per couple on the way over and $1500 on the way back. Total of $2500 and around 400,000 points for return business for 2 people.

Flying in in and out of Amsterdam is a great idea and definitely looks to be the cheapest but the availability isn't there from my searches. Definitely not 4 seats. And I'd love to fly in or out of Rome but I'm not wasting points on singapores 777-200 that they use on their Rome flight.

 

[greenfish]

jYes, unfortunately very hard to get 4 together out of AMS; it was easier in the past when there was F on this route, as you could often pick up 2 F and 2 J.

The 777-200 isn't my first choice for overnight, but for a day flight - they're not so bad.

If you fly out of Manchester I think you'll do a stop and go in Munich too - so not the quickest way home.

If you fly home from Zurich for example, you'll save about $300 each in taxes each.

Also, your current plans don't allow for any SC earn. How about this:

1. Find a day with 4 J seats available from MUC or MAN etc.
2. Check fares for that day ex Dublin for a flexi (not flexi saver, as these can't be upgraded). About 820 euro so about $1300 each
3. Upgrade long leg for about 55000 points to J

Benefits are:
1. Loads of status credits on the way home
2. Doesn't waste points on the A330 to/from BNE (not much better than the 777)
3. Easier to find availability on a direct connection on the way home
4. Already have enough points to book?

 

[davidhes]

jYes, unfortunately very hard to get 4 together out of AMS; it was easier in the past when there was F on this route, as you could often pick up 2 F and 2 J.

The 777-200 isn't my first choice for overnight, but for a day flight - they're not so bad.

If you fly out of Manchester I think you'll do a stop and go in Munich too - so not the quickest way home.

If you fly home from Zurich for example, you'll save about $300 each in taxes each.

Also, your current plans don't allow for any SC earn. How about this:

1. Find a day with 4 J seats available from MUC or MAN etc.
2. Check fares for that day ex Dublin for a flexi (not flexi saver, as these can't be upgraded). About 820 euro so about $1300 each
3. Upgrade long leg for about 55000 points to J

Benefits are:
1. Loads of status credits on the way home
2. Doesn't waste points on the A330 to/from BNE (not much better than the 777)
3. Easier to find availability on a direct connection on the way home
4. Already have enough points to book?

Wow now we are getting complex but a good suggestion lol. Need some help though. Fairly new to all this and I didn't quite understand everying you said.

Yep flying out of Manchester stops in munich. It's only an hour stop though and doesn't add a whole lot to the total length of the flight.

So far the only way I can find 4 reward seats after trying just about every combination, is Zurich in and Manchester out.

What do you mean by check out ex Dublin? Singapore airlines doesn't seem to fly out of Dublin and we aren't going to Ireland?

how easy are upgrades on singapore? If reward seats are available does that mean you can upgrade if you are on a Flexi ticket? Or do you have to go into a lottery etc. I don't want to book economy with no guarantee we can upgrade.

The upgrade option definitely sounds appealing. Would only cost us slightly more and I'd get 320 status credits. I'd keep my gold with my other credits and eligible sectors.

 

[greenfish]

Wow now we are getting complex but a good suggestion lol. Need some help though. Fairly new to all this and I didn't quite understand everying you said.

Yep flying out of Manchester stops in munich. It's only an hour stop though and doesn't add a whole lot to the total length of the flight.

So far the only way I can find 4 reward seats after trying just about every combination, is Zurich in and Manchester out.

What do you mean by check out ex Dublin? Singapore airlines doesn't seem to fly out of Dublin and we aren't going to Ireland?

how easy are upgrades on singapore? If reward seats are available does that mean you can upgrade if you are on a Flexi ticket? Or do you have to go into a lottery etc. I don't want to book economy with no guarantee we can upgrade.

The upgrade option definitely sounds appealing. Would only cost us slightly more and I'd get 320 status credits. I'd keep my gold with my other credits and eligible sectors.

Dublin just happens to have the cheapest one way flexi fares back to Oz. The fare includes a connecting flight to one of the airports that SQ does service. The full flexi fares ex Oz are too expensive for me, hence a cheap one way back. I'd be inclined to use Etihad over (you'll have enough points) and SQ home or v.v.

Not sure how much time you've spent in Europe, but flying out of Ireland - it is only a short cheap flight to Dublin from anywhere in the UK. I like it as most of my trips involve a significant amount of time near Southampton - and there are low cost direct flights to Dublin from Southampton. It is far cheaper than flying directly out of London.

If there is a reward seat available, an upgrade is available. Always ring and confirm with Krisflyer first though.

 

[davidhes]

Dublin just happens to have the cheapest one way flexi fares back to Oz. The fare includes a connecting flight to one of the airports that SQ does service. The full flexi fares ex Oz are too expensive for me, hence a cheap one way back. I'd be inclined to use Etihad over (you'll have enough points) and SQ home or v.v.

Not sure how much time you've spent in Europe, but flying out of Ireland - it is only a short cheap flight to Dublin from anywhere in the UK. I like it as most of my trips involve a significant amount of time near Southampton - and there are low cost direct flights to Dublin from Southampton. It is far cheaper than flying directly out of London.

If there is a reward seat available, an upgrade is available. Always ring and confirm with Krisflyer first though.

Ok cool. Think I'd rather just pay the extra money then have to make an extra flight back and forth from Dublin. We would like to use Etihad over, the problem yet again is finding 4 seats. seems near impossible. Hence the Singapore route we've taken.

I really like like the idea of upgrading though. Don't really need J for BN to Singapore. Y is comfortable enough on Singapore for that length flight. Now couple of questions about doing that. If I book Manchester/Paris/Zurich to BN as a Flexi. I can then log into my KrisFlyer account and select each leg and choose to upgrade? It says it's 65000 KrisFlyer miles to upgrade Singapore to Paris. Is there a 15% discount on that? Any fees increase?

Cheers.

 

[greenfish]

Ok cool. Think I'd rather just pay the extra money then have to make an extra flight back and forth from Dublin. We would like to use Etihad over, the problem yet again is finding 4 seats. seems near impossible. Hence the Singapore route we've taken.

I really like like the idea of upgrading though. Don't really need J for BN to Singapore. Y is comfortable enough on Singapore for that length flight. Now couple of questions about doing that. If I book Manchester/Paris/Zurich to BN as a Flexi. I can then log into my KrisFlyer account and select each leg and choose to upgrade? It says it's 65000 KrisFlyer miles to upgrade Singapore to Paris. Is there a 15% discount on that? Any fees increase?

Cheers.

I've had good luck booking 4 seats together on EY using VA points. Search using Etihad's reward seat tool:

Book flights with Etihad Guest Miles - Etihad Airways

VA availability has historically matched availability with what is showing on EY - unfortunately that is no longer the case. Also EY redemptions go up in price from 1 June...

A guide to SQ upgrades can be found here:

Singapore Airlines business class upgrade guide - Australian Business Traveller