Vale : Cheap Petrol

[AdMEL]

How much does retail account for BP's revenues? They have huge industrial and aviation business.

Without looking into this, I think you'll find that retail accounts for a small portion of any/all major fuel suppliers - their retail outlets would be to drive volume of their main game, being refining.

Shell, and I suspect Mobil, have substantial aviation divisions.

 

[drewbles]

Today the fuel prices at my local coles were the highest I've seen in a very long time $1.82/l for vpower. I wonder if this is just price gouging due to 1st jan or a sign of things to come to show the accc who's boss?

Shh don't tell the ACCC! The removal of large discounts is meant to HELP us! *nods*

I'm currently looking at a Caltex/Woolworths that's $1.649 for regular and I put Vortex 98 in my car this morning for $1.82 as well.

What a crock. The dollar's high. The oil price is high. There was a refinery fire in coughistan. The dollar's low. The cost of fuel vouchers is causing fuel prices to remain artificially inflated. Every F'ing excuse in the book.

My gripe used to be that oil went sky high, so fuel followed. Not much happened with the dollar, and when oil went back to $90ish a barrel, fuel kept going up.

I don't pretend to understand the market, but every time *anything* major happens with it, fuel goes up, never down.

 

[straitman]

Mobil has significant refining and storage/distribution operations in Victoria (Altona refinery and Yarraville storage, that have been there for decades), but that didn't stop them pulling out of retail, I assume because it was unprofitable.

Speaking about ExxonMobil only and with a little inside knowledge having worked for them for nearly 30 years.

They always said that the downstream operation in Oz was a licence to lose money which is why Esso sold out years ago. When Exxon and Mobil merged they where then lumbered with a downstream side again but that has now all been sold off. (The few 'Mobil' servos around are private and not company owned.)

Will they pull out of Australia? The company is very cautious with money and would do anything ethical that would lead to a long term profit, so the refineries could be sold or closed if necessary. Having said that they also have a lot of other infrastructure in this country and have just spent approx $5US billion on upgrades and expansion in Bass Strait and also have huge of assets up on the North West Shelf and in PNG.
See: ExxonMobil Australia

Slightly OT but just trying to put a little perspective in the discussion.

 

[spudseamus]

Err no. The ACCC are not stupid.

Are you saying this was not a self regulated idea by the supermarkets endorsed by the ACCC?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Are you saying this was not a self regulated idea by the supermarkets endorsed by the ACCC?

Well an idea of theirs after they were "nudged"....and in all probability it had been indicated in some way what would be acceptable.

WOW and Coles would still have their large fuel offers if it was only up to them. So the ACCC have clearly given them a "nudge" with all 3 then agreeing on what is allowed. The ACCC will have "nudged" in order to protect independent station operators.

ie 4 cent maximum.

Getting around it by allowing stacking etc of 4c vouchers to make in effect a larger voucher would be getting around it, and such practices may then see the ACC act to review use the vouchers entirely.


ACCC Chairman Rod Sims, said the investigation began following complaints that other operators could not match the 8-cent discount, but a decision on the issue had not been reached by the time the deal with the duopoly was struck.
“We’ve accepted the undertakings because they address the ACCC’s principal competition concerns and allow the matter to be resolved quickly and efficiently,” Mr Sims said.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/a...r-coles-woolies-agree-no-more-than-4c-2013-12

 

[docjames]

Extreme dislike to the good riddance comment. As a consumer I couldn't care less as the bigger fuel dockets were great.

There will never ever be a duopoly in the fuel market over here considering you have BP in the market as well...

You would care if the competitors shut down and your docets dried up. Short term v long term argument.

As a consumer, the fuel discounts were great .... in the short term, but long term I think they are detrimental to competition and price. Just look at how many people complain about Coles and Woolworths supermarket prices being high and them being a duopoly!

And what makes you think BP won't leave? Just because they are large does not mean they will stay if it's not profitable for them. You only have to look at Mobil as an example of this.

Exactly.

I don't see BP pulling out of Australia - hence it is relevant to your duopoly comments.

I wouldn't count on it as others have pointed out! Margins in retailing are rubbish and it's quite possible to have a refinery, an aviation / business supply arm but no retail arm.

Speaking about ExxonMobil only and with a little inside knowledge having worked for them for nearly 30 years.

They always said that the downstream operation in Oz was a licence to lose money which is why Esso sold out years ago. When Exxon and Mobil merged they where then lumbered with a downstream side again but that has now all been sold off. (The few 'Mobil' servos around are private and not company owned.)

Will they pull out of Australia? The company is very cautious with money and would do anything ethical that would lead to a long term profit, so the refineries could be sold or closed if necessary. Having said that they also have a lot of other infrastructure in this country and have just spent approx $5US billion on upgrades and expansion in Bass Strait and also have huge of assets up on the North West Shelf and in PNG.
See: ExxonMobil Australia

Slightly OT but just trying to put a little perspective in the discussion.

I see no reason why the situation would be any different for any of the "big refiners".

 

[spudseamus]

And that's why there should not have been a "nudge" the ACCC should have had so much info on the discount dockets after all these years ! They should have banned the blasted things for good !!! Does any one really think they are getting any real discount? The real discount is when you shop at Aldi and pick up discarded dockets in a car park LOL!

 

[AdMEL]

Speaking about ExxonMobil only and with a little inside knowledge having worked for them for nearly 30 years.

They always said that the downstream operation in Oz was a licence to lose money which is why Esso sold out years ago. When Exxon and Mobil merged they where then lumbered with a downstream side again but that has now all been sold off. (The few 'Mobil' servos around are private and not company owned.)

Will they pull out of Australia? The company is very cautious with money and would do anything ethical that would lead to a long term profit, so the refineries could be sold or closed if necessary. Having said that they also have a lot of other infrastructure in this country and have just spent approx $5US billion on upgrades and expansion in Bass Strait and also have huge of assets up on the North West Shelf and in PNG.
See: ExxonMobil Australia

Slightly OT but just trying to put a little perspective in the discussion.

Thanks for the inside knowledge.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're basically backing up what I stated and adding some background.


mannej, the fact that Mobil pulled out of retail in Australia because it was unprofitable, suggests that retail is probably unprofitable for the BP too and therefore there is no reason why BP wouldn't pull out of retail too (unless you know something I don't).

 

[Simo]

How much does retail account for BP's revenues? They have huge industrial and aviation business.

Yes but also BP has the biggest amount of Fuel Cards out in the business market as well.

 

[NSWP]

I have never used the fuel dockets or rewards cards, even though we have Coles and Woollies Servos down here. I support the local independent petrol stations, they have been matching the big boys anyhow.

 

[drewbles]

IMHO, the removal is a bad thing. Anyone that thinks the supermarkets will then allow fuel discounting is sadly misguided I believe.

Why would they lower the prices when they can gouge? Look at places like United (the petrol stations, not the airline). They simply do tie ups with IGA and the like, and even many of the smaller stations honour the fuel vouchers of competitors (with a $4 in-store purchase or the like).

The removal of large discounts is not going to lower either fuel nor grocery prices. I don't see how this is a good thing for anyone personally.

Of course, i'll be glad to be corrected (as it'll save us all cash).

 

[joyvee]

if you want to really understand the "ethics" of big business between Woolies and Coles download the podcast on Background Briefing Radio doco on Radio National abc.net.au which was broadcast last Saturday and Sunday. so much for keeping ones word. Definitely proves there is not such thing as a free lunch or free petrol discounting. JoyV

 

[drron]

Shell has announced that it's Geelong refinery is for sale by the end of this year.If not sold likely to be converted to an import terminal meaning Shell would be out of refining in Australia.
That will leave us with 4 refineries-2 operated by BP.

 

[markis10]

Shell has announced that it's Geelong refinery is for sale by the end of this year.If not sold likely to be converted to an import terminal meaning Shell would be out of refining in Australia.
That will leave us with 4 refineries-2 operated by BP.

Wouldn't it leave 6, 2 in Brisbane, 1 each in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth?

 

[drron]

Wouldn't it leave 6, 2 in Brisbane, 1 each in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth?

Both Kurnell and Clyde in Sydney have been axed,Port Stanvac is being cleaned up so the land can be sold after 2019,
So now only 2 in Brisbane,Altona and Kwinana.

 

[drron]

And today Fairfax is reporting that BP are considering putting their 2 Australian refineries and company owned service stations up for sale-
BP, Shell mull over asset sale

 

[AdMEL]

Now the Mobil retail brand is set to return:

Mobil brand to return to Australia

Interesting turn of events!

 

[JohnK]

Cheaper petrol was nice but not the end of the world without it.

I think we will see bigger bonus points offers if this weekend is any indication.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Cheaper petrol was nice but not the end of the world without it.

I think we will see bigger bonus points offers if this weekend is any indication.

Ok perhaps for WOW...but at Coles it is the pretty worthless FLYBUYS, and my experience was Coles had bigger fuel vouchers for less $ than WOW and a lot more often.

 

[johnhoney]

Remember the old adage "there is no such thing as a free lunch"? Do you not realise that the duopoly factors these discounts into their grocery prices? The existing profit margin will remain regardless of the ACCC thus giving the duopoly a greater profit.