using amex points

[superbette]

I'm new to using points for travel (flights usually unavailable etc) and am once again about to give up. I am planning on travelling with an under 6 year old child from Sydney to Beijing in April 2008. I have over 300,000 Amex points and can transfer these to any FF program. Qantas doesn't have a flight available in April (how surprising) and Virgin Atlantic only goes as far as Hong Kong. How can I fly on a Qantas flight using the Amex points via a booking through American Airlines (I read about this in the Fin Review a few weeks ago)? How does the codeshare work? Could I fly on Cathay Pacific for example using Qantas FF points? (I have enough of these for the flight) I am confused and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

Thanks
superbette

 

[Dave Noble]

If you transfer 333334 points from AMEX to Starwood preferred guest (SPG) you will get 100000 SPG points. If you then transfer them to AA, you will have 125,000 AA miles

Using AA miles you can travel on any of the OW airlines to China and the cost is 60,000 in economy, 90,000 in business and 120,000 in 1st class and you will avoid the fuel surcharges which will reduce the cost by over $200 each

Transferring AMEX to QANTAS you would need 72,000 points for economy 144,000 for business and 216,000 for 1st class so for credit card redemption, for this trip AA may not be the better value points to use

Booking now for April for a trip to Beijing using points is leaving it rather late for getting availability and the availability will be the same for both schemes; you may find availability becoming better closer to departure

Do check various routings there , such as going on Cathay PAcific via Hong Kong or JAL via Tokyo and be aware that neither of these options will appear on the Qantas award booking site , so you will need to call and check

Dave

 

[serfty]

If you transfer 33333 points from AMEX to Starwood preferred guest (SPG) you will get 100000 SPG points. If you then transfer them to AA, you will have 125,000 AA miles

That would be 333,334 Amex MR Points...

 

[codash1099]

That would be 333,333 Amex MR Points...

My heart skipped a couple of beats for a moment there :shock:

 

[austrider]

Hi,

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I feel this is relevent-ish. It sounds like if you are with OW and have AMEX, then the better option to use the points is NOT xfer it to QF, but to AA (via Starwood) because it's cheaper to redeem flights in AA? What about upgrades?

Here's the noob question.... should you deposit OW flights to AA instead of QF? In other words, what'd be the benefit of deposit mileage to QF except LFF? I assume AA EXP has all the same benefits (check-in, upgrade, lounge) as WP? Maybe priority seat selection??

Thanks...

 

[drron]

Hi,

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I feel this is relevent-ish. It sounds like if you are with OW and have AMEX, then the better option to use the points is NOT xfer it to QF, but to AA (via Starwood) because it's cheaper to redeem flights in AA? What about upgrades?

Here's the noob question.... should you deposit OW flights to AA instead of QF? In other words, what'd be the benefit of deposit mileage to QF except LFF? I assume AA EXP has all the same benefits (check-in, upgrade, lounge) as WP? Maybe priority seat selection??

Thanks...

If you have Amex then it is still better to transfer to QF.If you get 1.5 points per dollar spend you get 1.5 QF points per dollar but only 0.56 AA miles per dollar spent.This more than makes up for the usually lower points needed for an AA award.
It is certainly not easier to get explat on AA compared to plat on QF.It is easier to get lifetime status on AA because all points count.I use a diners card which I get 1.5 points per dollar spend and transferring to SPG is 2 to 1.This means I get 0.9375 AA miles per dollar spend so worth going the AA way and I am aiming at lifetime AA plat in 9-10 years.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Hi,

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I feel this is relevent-ish. It sounds like if you are with OW and have AMEX, then the better option to use the points is NOT xfer it to QF, but to AA (via Starwood) because it's cheaper to redeem flights in AA? What about upgrades?

Here's the noob question.... should you deposit OW flights to AA instead of QF? In other words, what'd be the benefit of deposit mileage to QF except LFF? I assume AA EXP has all the same benefits (check-in, upgrade, lounge) as WP? Maybe priority seat selection??

Thanks...

Well there is not a simple yes or no answer to that as it depends on your individual combination of flight earn and CC earn.

Generalising: If your points are mainlly from CC earn then QF will be better. If your points are mainly from flying then AA can be the way to go if you fly a lot.

• If you fly a lot on flights which can earn AA points then that can be the optimum way to go. But remember that if you mainly fly discount QF that many flights will not earn any AA points but would earn 1000 QF points as a minimum.
• If you earn good flight AA points then topping up with transferred AMEX points may be worthwhile to get enough points for an award.
• If you don't fly much.....or at least flights that can earn AA points then directing AMEX points to AA flights is ikely in most cases to generate less flights.
• Another factor is that no Australian VISA or MC point earn can go to AA, but can go to QF.
• The QF scheme can more easily for an Auastralian resident gain points froma variety of sources (for example my wife and I earna combined 100,000 QF points in 9 months for AMEX and Earth sigh on bonuses). Unless your flight earn alone is large this is importnat to many.
• AMEX can be used also for attractive rewards with Virgin Atlantic, but their routes are very limited.

So examine your likely flights, hotel stays, car hire, cc spend and ability to earn in bonuses plus consider where you may wish to fly.....and consider this by reading the excellent AA strings on this site.

Another factor for me is that I can obtain cheap Qantas Club Membership.....but would not be able to earn access via AA from status (my long haul flights are mainly FF redemptions).

 

[austrider]

I can't believe it's nearly 3am and I'm still reading AFF! (ok I've also been watching the tennis... it's been fantastic!) I'm totally hooked on learning DONE4 and the whole points earning/redeeming tricks.... damn you AFF!

Thanks for the replies... I think I made some wrong assuptions when reading the first few posts. Looking in detail I total agree that if you are based in AU and most points are earned from CC then QF is better.

As an exercise I'm using a return trip SYD-PEK as an example:

- no direct flight b/w SYD and PEK. Assume SYD-HKG-PEK (QF and JL)
- QF req 60,000 for SYD-HKG return, and 40000 for HKG-PEK return == 100,000 AMEX points
- AA req 100,000 for SYD-HKG return, and 80000 for HKG-PEK return (see footnote##) == a lot more AMEX points required!!

So to answer the original question:

The shorted flight offered by OW seems to be SYD-HKG-PEK.

SYD-HKG QF127 dep 11:55a arr 5:45p 60,000 QF/AMEX points return per person
HKG-PEK CX6116 dep 7:45p arr 11:00p should be 40,000 QF/AMEX points return per person
approx 14 hrs

However, good luck in getting an award booking for Apr this late though.....
===================

## Based on the OW timetable tool and the partner-award table on QF and AA
(AAdvantage Partners and Mileage Programs - Partner Details)

 

[Dave Noble]

As an exercise I'm using a return trip SYD-PEK as an example:

- no direct flight b/w SYD and PEK. Assume SYD-HKG-PEK (QF and JL)
- QF req 60,000 for SYD-HKG return, and 40000 for HKG-PEK return == 100,000 AMEX points
- AA req 100,000 for SYD-HKG return, and 80000 for HKG-PEK return (see footnote##) == a lot more AMEX points required!!

You do not need to add the componant parts together unless you are planning a stopover in Hong Kong. If you fly SYD-HKG-PEK, this will be 60/90/120k using AA points (Australia-Asia1). For Qantas redemption it will be based on the distance of the componant flights ( 4581 + 1234 = 5815 ) which will make it a zone 7 . since QF doesnt fly the route, you would have to use a partner award for this This will be 100/184/268k Qantas points.

If you wanted to stopover in Hong Kong, using AA points it would be best served by using a oneworld award which would be 90/115/150k

Using Qantas points a OW award for the journey with a stopover is 110/220/330k points

If wanting to travel in a premium cabin , the points difference is very marked , since without a stopover it is 90k vs 184k and with a stopover it is 115k vs 220k for business class and 120k vs 268k and 150k vs 330k for 1st

Dave

 

[austrider]

You do not need to add the componant parts together unless you are planning a stopover in Hong Kong.

Of course! Don't know what I was thinking... it was late! (and tennis was good)

If you fly SYD-HKG-PEK, this will be 60/90/120k using AA points (Australia-Asia1). For Qantas redemption it will be based on the distance of the componant flights ( 4581 + 1234 = 5815 ) which will make it a zone 7 . since QF doesnt fly the route, you would have to use a partner award for this This will be 100/184/268k Qantas points.

If you wanted to stopover in Hong Kong, using AA points it would be best served by using a oneworld award which would be 90/115/150k

That's correct and are based on the native QF/AA points. Btw the points I was quoting was AU-AMEX points. i.e. I was trying to illustrate that if your source of points was AMEX, then it'd be more reconomical to xfer it to QF and redeem it there. Note that I just realised that my calculations were incorrect as 90k AA points actually requires 228000 AMEX points (75240 SWP then 90240 AA) not 180000.

This basically backs up the points lovetravellingoz and drron were making. i.e for pure points redemption and ignoring other factors, if main source of points is from flying, then AA is cheaper to redeem, but if points are from CC, then QF

Given superbette's points are all AMEX, it's better to go QF.

Hope all these helped (and not leading to more confusion).

 

[Dave Noble]

This basically backs up the points lovetravellingoz and drron were making. i.e for pure points redemption and ignoring other factors, if main source of points is from flying, then AA is cheaper to redeem, but if points are from CC, then QF

Actually it doesn't necessarily for premium class travel, it does depend on where you are going. for a trip to PEK, then yes, I agree that QF seems a better choice for using miles

If however, going to London, for example

this would be 120k/160k using AA miles vs 256k/384k using QF miles assuming able to use a QF award or 278k/406k if using airlines such as JL/CX

120k AA miles requires 100000 Starwood points which in turn requires 333,334 AMEX points
160k AA miles requires 130000 Starwood points which in turn requires 393,394 AMEX points

As can be seen, an AA award SYD-LHR in 1st on CX is cheaper using AA points than QF points and against the QF award is only 9940 miles more expensive

Using the AA miles may be 9940 more expensive but there is a saving of $442 in surcharges which (imo) more than offsets the extra

If solely earning miles through credit cards, I would definitely consider each planned booking on its own merits

If doing reasonable amounts of travel, even in discount economy on QF, I posit that in many cases the AA will work out better for premium travel when needing to top up

For example; assuming 50% earning on Qf; if having flown 120,000 miles over time, this would give 120k QF points vs 60k AA points ( assuming no status has been earned )

If then wanting to travel to europe in business class, then this would require 60k additional points to an AA account ( 151k approx AMEX points ) vs 136k/158k AMEX points top off to QF. Again there will be the $442 saving on fuel fines.


Dave

 

[alect]

Sounds like your issue is going to be even finding award inventory for April.

I don't know whether the Australian MR program allows you to, but in the US MR program instead of transferring MRs to airline programs, once can also redeem it directly for paid travel booked with Amex Travel - 300k points would give you a credit of $3000 towards purchasing travel to PEK (and it also lets you earn miles on those purchased fares). Again, not sure whether the Aust MR program has this feature but it's a good fallback.

 

[rwatts]

I don't know whether the Australian MR program allows you to, but in the US MR program instead of transferring MRs to airline programs, once can also redeem it directly for paid travel booked with Amex Travel

That would be "TravelKey" -

TravelKey is all about helping you get the most out of your Membership Rewards points. That's because it allows you to book from a range of travel options through Travelscene American Express and pay using your points.
Redeem your points with TravelKey and enjoy:

• $100 worth of travel for every 10,000 points you redeem;
• no restrictions on where or when you can travel;
• points that can be used instantly when booking your travel;
• the ability to redeem for any type of travel item you want, from flights to insurance; and
• the flexibility of using any combination of your points plus a payment on your Card

When you book your travel with Travelscene American Express, not only will you be looked after by experienced consultants, you also get a flexible range of travel choices — with no restrictions on dates, times or locations. Which means you can travel anywhere, anytime you choose.
So, enjoy a holiday, a day's car hire or simply use your points to reduce your overall total travel bill — it's all within your reach with TravelKey.

So yes, available with the Australian MR program.

 

[austrider]

Using the AA miles may be 9940 more expensive but there is a saving of $442 in surcharges which (imo) more than offsets the extra

That's a great point! btw I've always wondered how you can determine what the surcharge would be - is there an easy way without actually logging into QF/AA and attempt to book the fare? i.e. how did you figure out the $442 savings?!

 

[Dave Noble]

That's a great point! btw I've always wondered how you can determine what the surcharge would be - is there an easy way without actually logging into QF/AA and attempt to book the fare? i.e. how did you figure out the $442 savings?!

I used the ITA Trip Planner ( ITA Software: Login )

Put in SYD-LHR with a point of sale of SYD and a class of business class

Found the QF option from the list

Go to Details and then select show booking details

It then shows the breakdown of fare and "taxes"

Fare (A1): QF SYDLON J2B fare (rules)  		AUD 5993.00 
Fare (A2): QF LONSYD J2B fare (rules)  		AUD 5993.00 
Tax: Australian Passenger Movement Charge 	AUD 38.00 
Tax: QF YR surcharge 				AUD 18.00 
Tax: United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge 	£14.30 
Tax: United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty 	£80.00 
Tax: QF YQ surcharge 				AUD 424.00 
Tax: Australian Int'l Passenger Service Charge 	AUD 45.28 


Total for 1 adult passenger: 			AUD 12716.58

The AUD 38.00 , £14.30, £80.00 and AUD 45.28 are the genuine taxes ( which will be paid regardless of whether using AA or QF points ) whilst the AUD 424.00 and AUD 18.00 are the Qantas bonus fines so booking through AA will save AUD 424.00

Interesting to compare the surcharges for the reverse ticket SYD-LHR r/t where there is no YR surcharge and the YQ surcharge is only £121.00 ( AUD 270.20 ) rather than the AUD 424.00 . Interesting how Australian based customers get screwed on fuel fines methunks

Fare (A1): QF LONSYD CRT1 fare (rules)  	£2201.00 
Fare (A2): QF SYDLON CRT1 fare (rules)  	£2201.00 
Tax: Australian Passenger Movement Charge 	AUD 38.00 
Tax: United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge 	£14.30 
Tax: United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty 	£80.00 
Tax: Australian Int'l Passenger Service Charge 	AUD 45.28 
Tax: QF YQ surcharge 				£121.00 


Total for 1 adult passenger: 			£4655.60

Dave

 

[austrider]

Interesting to compare the surcharges for the reverse ticket SYD-LHR r/t where there is no YR surcharge and the YQ surcharge is only £121.00 ( AUD 270.20 ) rather than the AUD 424.00 . Interesting how Australian based customers get screwed on fuel fines methunks

Wow cool tool. Thanks Dave for sharing and the detailed instruction and explanation. That definitely makes life easier as previously I had to try book a fare through the QF site to see the details (and cancel at payment). But even then its breakdown is not as detailed as the ITA software. Thanks again!

 

[JohnK]

I'm new to using points for travel (flights usually unavailable etc) and am once again about to give up. I am planning on travelling with an under 6 year old child from Sydney to Beijing in April 2008. I have over 300,000 Amex points and can transfer these to any FF program. Qantas doesn't have a flight available in April (how surprising) and Virgin Atlantic only goes as far as Hong Kong.

Have you considered transferring Amex MR points to SQ Kris Flyer or TG Royal Orchid Plus. Unfortunately the transfer rate is 2:1 but may get you the award flights you need.

SYD-PEK would be 80,000 miles each (a total of 320,000 Amex MR points) + taxes and surcharges. Also with SQ there is a 15% discount on miles required for award if you book online so it may be as little as 68,000 miles each (a total of 272,000 Amex MR points). I am not sure how to check availability with SQ or TG online. Can someone help out here?

Your other option is to transfer Amex MR points to VS Flying Club and go as far as HKG. The transfer rate is 1:1. SYD-HKG return would be 50,000 miles each and then purchase a cheap return economy ticket HKG-PEK.

 

[simongr]

I think one of the major advantages of the QF program over AA is award availability on QF flights 355 days out rather than 330. My upcoming AAdvantage RTW award (bboked purely on points earned through flying) has no QF segments as there was no J availability on any flight I wanted and I booked this on day 330...