Usa visa waiver

[Manolaki]

Hi
How does anyone at a US entry point know what your criminal history is if you don't bother disclosing it? Why would anyone go through all the heartache and trouble of doing the right thing obtaining a US Visa only to get knocked back over a stupid incident years ago?
My friend is travelling to the US in December. She's scared of getting knocked back for a visa so is applying under the VWP and simply not disclosing her history. How can they possibly find out? They don't have access to our criminal history database....or do they??

 

[Febs]

They don't have access to our criminal history database....or do they??

I believe they do to a certain extent. Certainly people have been denied entry based on previous convictions in Australia.

I'd "go through the hassle" of getting a VISA if I was your friend. Could work out cheaper than being knocked back over there.

Cheers,
- Febs.

 

[simongr]

This has been discussed many times on these forums. The US some how do have access to our criminal records.

Frankly it doesnt matter if "something" was petty and minor a long time ago - it is "something" and there is always a consequence to "something".

It is their country and they make the rules about comes in - and in fact on some levels they are more lenient than Australia...

 

[Dave Noble]

If it is something minor and a long time ago, then it may well not cause an issue getting a visa

I would be more concerned about getting to USA and being refused entry on the VWP for lying on the VWP declaration and then being put on next flight back to Australia than getting refused a visa

spending significant money on flights et al just to be put back on the next plane home is not something that I'd want to risk

Apply for the visa and be safe

Dave

 

[serfty]

Australian Govt departments will disclose to the US Govt information they are permiited by law to disclose.

For example, the Australian government is by law not permitted to disclose information relating to convictions that are classified as Passed or Spent.

That is, if an offence was not of a 'sexual nature' and did not result in a jail term of six months or more (differs between the various state & Federal laws), the conviction becomes "Passed" or "Spent" after 10 years.

For more information here read these threads:

• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...ecord-obtaining-us-visa-15468.html#post205900
• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/your-questions/usa-visas-merged-thread-10018.html
• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...-customs/visa-waiver-program-to-usa-6431.html

 

[coco50]

Since July 2008 the US INS and Department of Homeland Security trialled a system called Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA). It became mandatory in January 2009. All people travelling to the US on the VWP have to apply just to fly to the US! The form is very much like the form 94W that you fill in on the plane except that you lodge it online and you get a yes or a no online very quickly from the US INS. On the form you have to list your details and passport number as well as entry port and length of stay. Presumably the US Department of Homeland Security (DHS), US INS and Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) can check databases for records of criminality. Note that this is just to get approval to fly to the US. It does not guarantee entry. You still have to fill out the 94W on the plane and pass through immigration as usual. Here are links with some information on it about the system:

www.cbp.gov/travel
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov

 

[toowongman]

Hi
How does anyone at a US entry point know what your criminal history is if you don't bother disclosing it? Why would anyone go through all the heartache and trouble of doing the right thing obtaining a US Visa only to get knocked back over a stupid incident years ago?
My friend is travelling to the US in December. She's scared of getting knocked back for a visa so is applying under the VWP and simply not disclosing her history. How can they possibly find out? They don't have access to our criminal history database....or do they??

Tell your friend to contact the US consulate/embassy and apply for a visa. Sometimes telling the truth hurts, but it wouldn't be as bad as being denied entry once at LAX (etc.) And if there is a long period of time until the next flight back, they might get taken somewhere very very very unpleasant for the duration. Nothing worse than being in the hands of an American who thinks you're a criminal of some sort. Furthermore if denied entry they will stamp your passport so, for other countries to see in future travels.

 

[FlyboyAl]

I've been to the US too many times to underestimate what information and data homeland security might have access to.
Even IF you got through, they are good at detecting body language and manerisms that could/would give you away.
Be up front and apply for a visa, its definitely the safer, and potentially cheaper option

 

[Evan]

I've been to the US too many times to underestimate what information and data homeland security might have access to.
<..>

You better believe it... one reason i can never work in any of the banned list of countries of the USA (Iran etc), because i know they have some info about my past expert knowledge on a topic that i had only ever done anything with in Australia and Asia. (And no i don't know anything interesting, just some detailed security insights into a no longer available OS but the document i signed says i cannot work in any of those counties any time else i risk getting arrested i guess... i don't know and don't care as its only 7 or 9 countries on the current list)

 

[mushypeas]

On this VWP I'm stuck in a bit of a rut ... I'll be departing Australia on 13/10 from BNE > LAX > JFK and will stay in New York for six days... my final destination is actually Canada where I will be staying for twelve months (perhaps even two years if I like it). I'll possess a working holiday visa for my stay in Canada however I'm told that I cannot re-enter the United States under the VWP because my time on the "continent" will exceed the allowed 90 day period.

This to me seems absolutely ridiculous given I'll technically be living in North America. So from this it appears I need a B2 visa which ordinarily I wouldn't have a problem with but I'm in Brisbane and need flights for an "interview" ($200 return plus $170 visa app fee + $50 issuance fee) which starts to become an expensive exercise if on the odd chance I want to duck over the border.

Are there any ways around this or am I reading into this dilemma too deeply ? Also, what happens when I arrive from Canada to New York to catch my returning flight back to Australia - Will I be allowed to enter?

What a nightmare

 

[Dave Noble]

On this VWP I'm stuck in a bit of a rut ... I'll be departing Australia on 13/10 from BNE > LAX > JFK and will stay in New York for six days... my final destination is actually Canada where I will be staying for twelve months (perhaps even two years if I like it). I'll possess a working holiday visa for my stay in Canada however I'm told that I cannot re-enter the United States under the VWP because my time on the "continent" will exceed the allowed 90 day period.

This to me seems absolutely ridiculous given I'll technically be living in North America. So from this it appears I need a B2 visa which ordinarily I wouldn't have a problem with but I'm in Brisbane and need flights for an "interview" ($200 return plus $170 visa app fee + $50 issuance fee) which starts to become an expensive exercise if on the odd chance I want to duck over the border.

Are there any ways around this or am I reading into this dilemma too deeply ? Also, what happens when I arrive from Canada to New York to catch my returning flight back to Australia - Will I be allowed to enter?

What a nightmare

You need a B1/B2 visa or to change your flights such that you do not go via the USA

The waiver that the USA offers on the requirement to get a visa has restrictions on it; one of these is that you have to leave North America . Since you are only going to Canada, then you will not meet this requirement and so ineligable to re-enter the USA

From http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/business_pleasure/vwp/vwp.xml

Q: Can a VWP applicant for Admission Be Readmitted To the United States Following a Short Trip To an Adjacent Island, Canada, or Mexico?
A: Generally, VWP applicants admitted under the VWP may be readmitted to the United States after a departure to Canada or Mexico or adjacent islands for the balance of their original admission period provided the person:
Can identify an authorized period of admission that has not expired,
Plans to depart the United States no later than the expiration date of their period of admission,
Presents valid, unexpired passports which reflect admission to the United States under the VWP, and
Continues to meet all criteria set forth in 8 CFR 217 and section 217 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) 0020 with the exception of arrival on a signatory carrier

To call this ridiculous is unfair. The USA has , with the scheme, made some exceptions to the previous requirement of all visitors needing a visa. Unfortunately, given that you plan to live in a neighbouring country, you are ineligable to use the scheme if you plan to re-visit the USA after the expiration of the 90 days visa exemption period

Dave

 

[Chicken or Beef]

She's scared of getting knocked back for a visa so is applying under the VWP and simply not disclosing her history. How can they possibly find out? They don't have access to our criminal history database....or do they??

They know EVERYTHING! Especially after what happened in 2001 - they have agreements with countries to find out everything they need to about plane loads of people coming into THEIR country. This includes (but not limited to) where you purchased your ticket, how you paid for it, who you made the booking with, who you sat next to on the plane etc.

What should scare your friend is coming back on the next plane to Australia and being barred from entering the US for years, all for thinking the smart and hassle-free way to enter is to not disclose 'minor' incidents.

 

[odysseus]

This to me seems absolutely ridiculous given I'll technically be living in North America. So from this it appears I need a B2 visa which ordinarily I wouldn't have a problem with but I'm in Brisbane and need flights for an "interview" ($200 return plus $170 visa app fee + $50 issuance fee) which starts to become an expensive exercise if on the odd chance I want to duck over the border.

I agree that it seems unreasonable. Is it possible for you to apply for the visa once in Canada? That will simplify things (and reduce the cost) a little.

 

[Dave Noble]

I agree that it seems unreasonable. Is it possible for you to apply for the visa once in Canada? That will simplify things (and reduce the cost) a little.

I think that there may be a problem in that would , I believe, require applying for a change of status rather than just applying for a visa

This could well have problems since

Q: What Are the Disadvantages of Using the VWP?
A: If you are admitted to the United States under the VWP, you may not change or extend your non-immigrant status. If your admission is denied you have no right to administrative or judicial review, except as noted above. Likewise, if you are found to have previously violated the terms of your admission, you may not enter under the VWP ever again. Therefore, before using the VWP, you should carefully consider your options.

I would definitely not attempt this without verifying with the consulate 1st since may not be able to get a US Visa without complying with the terms of the VWT admission

Dave

 

[JohnK]

Furthermore if denied entry they will stamp your passport so, for other countries to see in future travels.

A silly hypothetical question. Let's say someone gets deported from the USA and has their passport stamped what is to stop them from applying for a new passport sometime after ariving back in Australia and saying that the passport has been lost or stolen? Still cannot enter the USA but should be fine for other countries.

 

[FlyboyAl]

I'd suggest that if they threw you out, you would definately be in the system somewhere, and as soon as your name came up at imigration, (or some other poor schmuck with the same name), then all hell would break loose.
Just my opinion........

 

[simongr]

I'd suggest that if they threw you out, you would definately be in the system somewhere, and as soon as your name came up at imigration, (or some other poor schmuck with the same name), then all hell would break loose.
Just my opinion........

Only an issue if you returned to the US. JohnK was considering the risk of having a "deported from US" stamp in other countries and thus disposing of an offending passport.

I personally don't think you are deported if you try to get in and fail - I think you are simply refused entry. I would suspect that there is a big difference between seen as having been deported and being refused entry.

 

[Dave Noble]

Only an issue if you returned to the US. JohnK was considering the risk of having a "deported from US" stamp in other countries and thus disposing of an offending passport.

I personally don't think you are deported if you try to get in and fail - I think you are simply refused entry. I would suspect that there is a big difference between seen as having been deported and being refused entry.

I believe that being refused admission gets a nice refusal stamp on the passport. iirc, for UK, they put the arrival stamp on and then nicely cross through it to show the refusal

Dave

 

[straitman]

I believe that being refused admission gets a nice refusal stamp on the passport. iirc, for UK, they put the arrival stamp on and then nicely cross through it to show the refusal

Dave

Dave,

Is this from personal experience :?:

 

[canabear]

Just a reminder that if it is a minor crime it may not be grounds for refusal as it may not be a crime of moral turpitude.

There is not a blanket refusal for any criminal conviction.

See here for more details

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf