USA FAA Mandated Security Screen Doors

[AuSammy]

I just saw this pic elsewhere. Apparently FAA have mandated for all deliveries of new aircraft be fitted with new secondary security doors so passengers can’t access the area between the coughpit and the front toilets / front galley while a pilot is relieving themselves.

Apparently as a result of lobbying by a relative of a passenger on United93.

There is chatter of a potential a retro fit programme for existing aircraft.

This pic taken on a recent AA flight.

My first question is - in the event of an emergency how do passengers depart the aircraft in the event crew is disabled?



@admin if this is in wrong spot feel free to move it to another thread

 

[serfty]

My first question is - in the event of an emergency how do passengers depart the aircraft in the event crew is disabled?

This would take the place of an FA standing in the way while a Pilot is out of the coughpit. The screen would would not be deployed all of the time.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This would take the place of an FA standing in the way while a Pilot is out of the coughpit. The screen would would not be deployed all of the time.

Indeed.

It would also be virtually impossible to conduct cabin service if the screen was permanently deployed!

I’m guessing because of Bain Capital’s investment in VA they choose to deploy a member of cabin crew to guard the aisle in front of the galley when a pilot comes out of the flight deck?

 

[RooFlyer]

I’m guessing because of Bain Capital’s investment in VA they choose to deploy a member of cabin crew to guard the aisle in front of the galley when a pilot comes out of the flight deck?

Don't understand the relevance of this. Qantas does it as well. Sometimes a cart is also placed in the way. Other global airlines also do it.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Don't understand the relevance of this. Qantas does it as well. Sometimes a cart is also placed in the way. Other global airlines also do it.

VA did it well before Bain's investment.
I remember it, and I haven't flown with VA since the change in control (and relinquishment of the A330s).

 

[RooFlyer]

VA did it well before Bain's investment.

I thought just about everyone did it after 9/11. Might be mistaken ...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Don't understand the relevance of this. Qantas does it as well. Sometimes a cart is also placed in the way. Other global airlines also do it.

I thought it was a ‘US’ thing. I can’t say i’ve seen it with any regularity on non-US airlines.

Agree many airlines did it post 9/11…but once we had secure coughpit doors, and the passage of time, it seems to be less common.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I thought just about everyone did it after 9/11. Might be mistaken ...

In my experience European airlines such as AF, AY, BA, IB and OS don't do it.
I can remember chatting to pilots in the galley on AF in particular recently.

 

[RooFlyer]

From recent experience, can agree re BA. But I'm so used to not being allowed in the front galley area when pilots are there/about to come out, that recently I walked up to go to the front loo, and found one of the pilots there, chatting to a FA. I immediately turned around to head back, but the pilot said "No, you're OK, go ahead".

Not wild about that sort of practice.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

From recent experience, can agree re BA. But I'm so used to not being allowed in the front galley area when pilots are there/about to come out, that recently I walked up to go to the front loo, and found one of the pilots there, chatting to a FA. I immediately turned around to head back, but the pilot said "No, you're OK, go ahead".

Not wild about that sort of practice.

I'm not really concerned.
No one can really predict when a pilot will exit the coughpit and it would be difficult for a would-be hijacker to loiter there waiting for the door to open.
Provided the coughpit door is secured behind the exiting pilot, the most a would-be hijacker could do is assault them.
They could threaten the pilot to try to gain access to the coughpit but they could similarly threaten an FA or another PAX at any time.
The pilot remaining in the coughpit could ignore any of these threats and safely land the plane.
Knowing that the consequences of allowing the hijacker access to the coughpit could only be worse.
I think the coughpit security doors, and the wide-spread knowledge of what could happen if they were breached, has pretty much made the 9/11 tactic a non-starter now. It worked on that one day because it was unprecedented and unexpected.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not really concerned.
No one can really predict when a pilot will exit the coughpit and it would be difficult for a would-be hijacker to loiter there waiting for the door to open.
Provided the coughpit door is secured behind the exiting pilot, the most a would-be hijacker could do is assault them.
They could threaten the pilot to try to gain access to the coughpit but they could similarly threaten an FA or another PAX at any time.
The pilot remaining in the coughpit could ignore any of these threats and safely land the plane.
Knowing that the consequences of allowing the hijacker access to the coughpit could only be worse.
I think the coughpit security doors, and the wide-spread knowledge of what could happen if they were breached, has pretty much made the 9/11 tactic a non-starter now. It worked on that one day because it was unprecedented and unexpected.

Agree.

Which is why is so surprising to see the FAA mandate the double security door!

But then their TSA/security requirements are extraordinary.

I posed the question in google ‘why?’ and there are several threads… the comments are interesting with many saying that 9/11 was a US thing, aimed at the US, and unless you’ve been that sort of target, you won’t really understand the mentally behind the heightened security.

 

[serfty]

I recall back in the 2010's I recall flting a North American carrier that had a waist to chest height barrier that was deployed at such times.

It may have been USair ...

 

[Scarlett]

LOTFAP doing lotfaP things…

Lobbying by a relative? There are already all of the hardening of doors plus more screening and crew procedures. Is that not enough? I guess next there will be a small corridor connecting the front of the aircraft to the rest of the cabin, guarded by sharks with friggin laser beams!



I also guess Airbus will have to comply if they want to continue selling aircraft in the US market.

Taking the thought further, are they going to be mandated for all pax coaches; lorries; for cruise ships; or even for large pleasure boats? Ol Mr T.Wrist isn’t forced to use a plane.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Agree.

Which is why is so surprising to see the FAA mandate the double security door!

But then their TSA/security requirements are extraordinary.

I posed the question in google ‘why?’ and there are several threads… the comments are interesting with many saying that 9/11 was a US thing, aimed at the US, and unless you’ve been that sort of target, you won’t really understand the mentally behind the heightened security.

I don't know why they need them when Donald Trump will be personally guarding every pilot who takes a leak on every flight.
Just like he personally pulled survivors from the rubble on 9/11.

 

[Rayesfeg]

Gosh that is ugly and gives prison door vibes. Not to mention doesn't look all that sturdy.

I had seen something on Facebook about this a little while ago but it was simply in the area directly before/after the narrow corridor between the door to the coughpit and where the galley starts (i.e. blocking off the entrance to the bathroom), not blocking the entire galley.

 

[RooFlyer]

No one can really predict when a pilot will exit the coughpit and it would be difficult for a would-be hijacker to loiter there waiting for the door to open.

A business class pax could easily rush the couple of metres (even economy in something like a B737) when the pilot emerged.# And like I said before, I walked up to the galley and the pilot was there! Now, as you say, the pilot in the coughpit will ignore what's out there but I'd still rather have both pilots (at least) unmolested.

# Which is why I recall that some airlines do or used to block the entrance to the galley with a cart - just to slow the attacker down.

I think the coughpit security doors, and the wide-spread knowledge of what could happen if they were breached, has pretty much made the 9/11 tactic a non-starter now.

Agree, but there is always the risk of a 'disturbed person' just doing it. The cart and these doors are a deterrent and a line of defence.