Updated Air Services agreement between Australia and Indonesia

[Scarlett]

Why do so many people only ever think what they want AND from an Australian POV?

If a company is going to fly AUS-IDN then I guarantee you they consider both sides of the market. Can QF Group or VA attract enough of the IDN side of the market to make both legs profitable, or are they really only targeting Aus customers going and returning? JQ fills a very particular part of the market and an important one for QF because its pricing structure makes it more accessible.

Furthermore, if an Indonesian LCC can’t make a route work with their cost structure, there is absolutely no way an Australian domiciled company can. So sure, SUB is a large city but what’s the tourist draw? Madura maybe? It’s largely a commercial city. LOP has been tried, mostly as a gateway to the Gili Islands, but they can be reached just as easily from the Bali side.

Snorkeling and diving in Raja Ampat? How big is that market and could a direct Aus to Sorong flight actually make money? Probably not; too niche.

Flores, Komodo, Medan and Lake Toba?

The only one that surprises me as not having been tried by an IDN LCC is Aus to Yogyakarta. There is a significant tourist draw there to Yogya (Borobudur, Prambanan, Merapi, caves/lava tubes, highlands regions etc), but currently people hub via DPS/CGK. Maybe they don’t think the IDN side of the equation could support the market to any city in Aus.

Final point: DPS is already slot constrained at times. Just because more seats are being made available doesn’t mean that the airlines will use them all if the available time slot is a DPS 0200 arr / 0315 dep… it is not a free for all.

 

[Saab34]

Furthermore, if an Indonesian LCC can’t make a route work with their cost structure, there is absolutely no way an Australian domiciled company can.

I think that’s been proven as incorrect in prior times. AirAsia Indonesia has struggled on many routes here, Citilink tried Avalon, and the list goes on. yet Jetstar averages 90%+ LF across its Indo routes.

The Indo carriers just don’t have the marketing or brand power as the local players here.

 

[Harrison_133]

Register of available capacity has been updated to reflect the new Indonesia bilateral agreement.

The wording is as follows:

"5,180 seats per week in each direction to and from points in Australia of Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth,
Sydney and Western Sydney and points in Indonesia of Jakarta and Denpasar."

"Unrestricted capacity to and from all points in Indonesia, except Jakarta and Denpasar."

Source: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/s...an-international-airlines-24september2026.pdf

 

[LionKing]

Register of available capacity has been updated to reflect the new Indonesia bilateral agreement.

The wording is as follows:

"5,180 seats per week in each direction to and from points in Australia of Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth,
Sydney and Western Sydney and points in Indonesia of Jakarta and Denpasar."

"Unrestricted capacity to and from all points in Indonesia, except Jakarta and Denpasar."

Source: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/s...an-international-airlines-24september2026.pdf

So 5180/180 is 28, so only 28x Weekly (or 4 Daily) between major cities and Jakarta and Denpasar on a Single Class A320 aircraft?

 

[Saab34]

That’s quite a bit of capacity and I don’t think such a large allocation has been given for capitals in one hit before.

Even if VA get half, that’s a sizeable increase for its DPS operation.

 

[Chatswood]

So 5180/180 is 28, so only 28x Weekly (or 4 Daily) between major cities and Jakarta and Denpasar on a Single Class A320 aircraft?

I think this means on top of what’s already operating, which is still a major expansion.

Wonder why there’s no mention of MEL/AVV but this seems to explicitly state SYD/WSI?

 

[Harrison_133]

Qantas Group has applied to IASC for additional capacity on the Indonesia route.

They are requesting 4,539 seats per week in each direction.

They propose the following new services:

• 1 daily: Perth - Jakarta operated by a Qantas 737-800 from December 2026
• 1 daily: Western Sydney - Denpasar operated by a Jetstar A321LR from March 2027
• 1 daily: Brisbane - Denpasar operated by a Qantas 737-800 from August 2027

On the Melbourne - Jakarta route:

• increase to 4 weekly on the A330 from March 2027, then daily on the A321XLR from October 2027

Source: https://www.iasc.gov.au/sites/default/f ... onesia.pdf

 

[aikman]

How nice of them to not ask for the full 5,180 seats.

 

[LionKing]

Qantas Group has applied to IASC for additional capacity on the Indonesia route.

They are requesting 4,539 seats per week in each direction.

They propose the following new services:

• 1 daily: Perth - Jakarta operated by a Qantas 737-800 from December 2026
• 1 daily: Western Sydney - Denpasar operated by a Jetstar A321LR from March 2027
• 1 daily: Brisbane - Denpasar operated by a Qantas 737-800 from August 2027

On the Melbourne - Jakarta route:

• increase to 4 weekly on the A330 from March 2027, then daily on the A321XLR from October 2027

Source: https://www.iasc.gov.au/sites/default/f ... onesia.pdf

I am very disappointed that they are not using QF A321XLR for WSI-DPS, which JQ does not have Business Class.

 

[elanshin]

I am very disappointed that they are not using QF A321XLR for WSI-DPS, which JQ does not have Business Class.

It's hardly strange for them to propose JQ. There is MORE JQ seats to DPS than QF. It's a market built for low cost tourism a lot more than expensive.

If you're flying QF from Sydney to Bali in business, you can afford to goto SYD for the a330 instead of WSI for a narrow body and it would blow the experience out of the water.

Its why we flew back from DPS to MEL via SYD instead of direct to MEL. Didn't want to be on a 737 overnight.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

It's hardly strange for them to propose JQ. There is MORE JQ seats to DPS than QF. It's a market built for low cost tourism a lot more than expensive.

If you're flying QF from Sydney to Bali in business, you can afford to goto SYD for the a330 instead of WSI for a narrow body and it would blow the experience out of the water.

Its why we flew back from DPS to MEL via SYD instead of direct to MEL. Didn't want to be on a 737 overnight.

It's 5 hours in the air, going via Sydney doubles the travel time

 

[liam1098]

I really hope VA puts in a competitive request. PER-DPS, and more East Coast frequencies, even Jakarta could be on the cards as their MAX-8s have the range. VA has such a low number of seats allocated compared to JQ, and considering how the last allocation was awarded to JQ, VA should be allocated at least some of this new 5000.

 

[elanshin]

It's 5 hours in the air, going via Sydney doubles the travel time

WSI -DPS not PER.

 

[AuSammy]

I really hope VA puts in a competitive request. PER-DPS, and more East Coast frequencies, even Jakarta could be on the cards as their MAX-8s have the range. VA has such a low number of seats allocated compared to JQ, and considering how the last allocation was awarded to JQ, VA should be allocated at least some of this new 5000.

Well they have to apply for the seats in the first place and have the planes & staff to service the route and projected profit margin for it to happen.

My uninformed guess is they haven’t applied for many seats in the past.

 

[liam1098]

They did apply for x2 daily PER-DPS several years ago, with I believe around $200 million annual additional revenue contribution with a healthy profit margin projected. Not to mention VA now has a much more substantial fleet, with its full fleet of 26 MAX-8s and soon MAX-10s

 

[Harrison_133]

Not to mention VA now has a much more substantial fleet, with its full fleet of 26 MAX-8s and soon MAX-10s

Those new MAX 8s were mostly used for fleet renewal though, replacing older leased 737-800s and the A320 fleet at VARA.

 

[HS-TQE]

I'd tip that VA will try to apply again for PER-DPS, despite the numerous competitors on the route.

Australian carriers generally have the Australian POS advantage when it comes to Bali routes, and may suggest VA may have a yield advantage over the numerous Indonesian-based LCCs on Bali-Australia routes.

Other than PER-DPS, I'd say SYD-DPS for the other frequency (and in light of the previous mentioned cutbacks on the Domestic RPT network in favour of FIFO).

BNE has OOL and MCY down and up the road if VA were to apply for more capacity on the SEQld-DPS corridor.

 

[LionKing]

It's hardly strange for them to propose JQ. There is MORE JQ seats to DPS than QF. It's a market built for low cost tourism a lot more than expensive.

If you're flying QF from Sydney to Bali in business, you can afford to goto SYD for the a330 instead of WSI for a narrow body and it would blow the experience out of the water.

I can definitely afford to fly QF J to DPS, however what I am more concerned is the schedule.

JQ has much friendlier departure and arrival time which can connect with CX and MH well, whilst QF arrives DPS too late, and red eye to SYD is torture for such a short flight, even in Business.

You can blame me not flying MH and CX direct to Asia, but with these airlines charging a SYD premium and earning less SCs than QF, it is not economical to fly them whilst I am yet to achieve 14,000 QF LTSCs.

There are too many unruly passengers in Economy I have banned myself from flying any class less than Premium Economy in and out of Australia.

 

[acha]

I just hope that Qantas run also direct flight BNE - CGK direct. Also i am not shock that between these period some Indonesia airlines will be added flight for Example GA return to Perth to CGK or DPS. or maybe make daily flight to CGK from MEL or SYD. or Maybe for example route like Garuda will start new route to indonesia that QF not run. For example because QF plan to open new CGK Perth and GA open PER DPS. and For BNE because QF does not run direct BNE CGK maybe GA Can run these route or maybe QF decied also to run BNE - CGK direct.

I just wanna ask does the Bilateral agreement only for Indonesia or Australia or include a fifth freedom to Australia Via Indonesia? Because if it that reason i think maybe there are some Carrier from Middle east (Like Etihad, Riyadh Air) Or Indian Carier like Indigo and Air India that planning new Route to Australia Via Jakarta/DPS. (For example Etihad return to Brisbane but new route will be Via CGK or DPS).

Also Will QF/KLM Partnership can move the transit place in Asia not in SIN anymore but either CGK/DPS given QF Fly there from SYD/MEL and later PERTH? and also maybe this additonal seat make the route yield worth it to have additinal service and not causing lost because open new route that very low yield? so maybe using CGK for Transit KLM is good idea.

 

[Saab34]

It’s for Australian carriers only, it’s allocation negotiated on our end for our carriers.

They haven’t indicated they intend to fly BNE-CGK.

Indonesian carriers have historically struggled against the Australian carriers on many Indonesian routes. I wouldn’t expect too much experimenting apart what they they operate today, don’t forget most of them are not in great financial health.