Two Federal Air Marshals escape Brazil after in-flight assault charge

[mannej]

This is an interesting one. PPrune has a fairly similar discussion going on US Air Marshals flee Brazil following arrest saga - PPRuNe Forums.
There is a belief that it was the job of the FA's to deal with this unruly passenger, but others believe that the FAM's were in the right to act the way they did.

It is interesting considering the incidents on VS and QF, and how they were dealt with.

 

[samh004]

This is an interesting one. PPrune has a fairly similar discussion going on US Air Marshals flee Brazil following arrest saga - PPRuNe Forums.
There is a belief that it was the job of the FA's to deal with this unruly passenger, but others believe that the FAM's were in the right to act the way they did.

It is interesting considering the incidents on VS and QF, and how they were dealt with.

I haven’t read the linked thread, but say the FA’s dealt with it and not the FAM’s, do you think the wife would have had the FA’s arrested instead? Guess we’ll never know, but they probably aren’t afforded the same protections as the FAM’s and I think the outcome would have been the same.

 

[drron]

Egg,

I have to agree with serfty on this one. The points both ways have been made time and again.

Some here are willing to give the Air Marshalls the benefit of the doubt and believe they were merely doing their jobs and others, including yourself, believe they have overstepped the mark.

IMHO it is probably time for some people here to agree to disagree.

I have......

 

[Egg]

In case there's anyone's interested a different perspective:

AVCANADA • View topic - U.S. air marshals flee Brazil

Now as to what happened in this incident, I asked a lawyer friend of mine to look into the matter here in Brazil because it just seemed a little too weird.

There was no issue with the fact that the woman was being a jerk on the aircraft. Being a wife of a judge or not, it was a given and she would have been fined for that……would have been…..see below.

It seems that the whole incident of the Sky Marshals being charged with simple assault revolves around their use of handcuffs on the woman for five straight hours and refusing to let her use the toilet. I am told that you can’t do that to a prisoner. You have to allow them toilet facilities and can keep them restrained (sit there and don’t move kind of thing) but can’t keep them shackled for hours on end.
It was deemed to be beyond a reasonable use of force and like any other normal street police office, they were charged…by the police at the airport, (not by a Federal Judge. Judges don’t charge people) with misdemeanor assault.

Wait for it…..

As Brazilian aircraft don’t carry handcuffs this had never occurred before. The law doesn’t really address the issue of aircraft, so a hearing was quickly scheduled to get a ruling and some case law on the books from a Judge. The law really addresses ships, but they have a brig. As everyone knows things are different on an aircraft.

Everyone (Unions, Pilot Associations etc) was eagerly awaiting the hearing because the issue really needed clearing up.

The Sky Marchal’s passports were held over the weekend and they were released on their word that they would appear in court. All was well in legal land.

But then the Sky Marshals skipped town. So there was no ruling, which would have gone in the favor of restraint, the female twit in question was set free because there was no one left to testify against her, and the actions of the Sky Marshals in general were called into question. It is the same as in Canada, if you flee you are seen to be guilty, whatever reasons you may have.

They actually blew a glorious opportunity to get exactly what they needed, a ruling in their favor for the right to restrain as needed. US law is not omnipotent. There are certain niceties that need to be observed with other nation’s laws.

Does no one remember those pilots that were held on murder charges because Brazilian ATC fouled up and they wanted to shift blame??

RUN FORREST RUN

They were never put in jail and they were never even arrested. They were asked to cooperate with the investigation by giving a statement, a simple statement. They refused as per their lawyer’s advice so they sat in Rio for 2 months.

Under Brazilian Law no one is obliged to cooperate or to give a statement to the equivalent of the NTSB. You only have to talk to a Judge. Your basic rights and freedoms are WAY, WAY more liberally protected in Brazil than in North America. I suspect that is because they were curtailed for so long during the Military Government that the pendulum has swung past common sense to an extremely liberal “lets not punish anybody” mentality. It drives me nuts.

As a result of their silence, their passports were then held awaiting investigation by the Federal Police (FBI) as to whether a crime had been committed causing loss of life. (154 people)

During this time they stayed in a 5 star hotel on Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janeiro and had their wives stay with them, all paid for by Excell Air. They were not put in orange overalls nor were they force fed through tubes and housed in small cages for years.
The could have gone anywhere they wanted to in the country but chose to stay in the hotel due to hounding from the press. That was probably a smart move.
If you are even partly to blame for the deaths of 154 people, then sitting in a 5 star hotel for 2 months is hardly cruel punishment dished out by a kangaroo court.

Four controllers have since been indicted, with a fifth one possible. The pilots have been indicted on charges of imprudent operation of an aircraft. That charge is under appeal.

 

[samh004]

Thanks for the different perspective ...