Travelling to Europe with ILs - their 1st time in EU

[Katie]

Hi,
(Can't think of a better area for this post?? Please let me know/move if there's somewhere more appropriate.)

So, something got into my head, and Mr Katie and I have asked my ILs to come with us (and Miss 4.5 by then) to Europe next year. They've never been to Europe, but have travelled to the US, New Zealand, Vanuatu and Singapore. FWIW, they're in their late 60s/early 70s, still very mobile (not that that age range is old!). MIL expressed some interest in going last year, and so I've decided to be pushy and suggest they come with us, we got the sense they weren't quite game to go alone, and were finding all kinds of excuses not to go.
Mr Katie and I are both QP members, but NB/PS status. We normally buy Y+ tix, but haven't yet flown QF Y+ to LHR, only BA.

The itinerary we're thinking of:
17/18 April - Fly BNE-(SYD? SIN?)-LHR-CDG.
Rent a 2 bed apartment in Paris, near-ish Bastille. Hang around in Paris for a week. None of us speak French, but Mr Katie, Miss 18mths & I went there in 2008 and coped OK.

24 April - Easter Sunday
Get a car and drive to Amiens.
25 April - Easter Monday (pub. hol in FR)/ ANZAC day
Dawn service at Villers-Bretonneux. We did this in 2008, FIL & Mr Katie would like to do it.
26 April probably
Drive to Epernay/Reims, have fun in Champagne for the rest of the week.
Are we crazy to go to Champagne with a 4.5 year old???

1 May or so CDG-LHR
Rent an apartment in London. Wander around, help ILs cope with the Tube, etc. We've been to London a few times, so there probably aren't many of the "big" attractions we want to see, but I'm sure there are plenty of other things to see and discover.

8 May or so LHR-SIN
Spend 2-3 days in SIN. Perhaps leave ILs in London if theyr'e game. If not, we might all come home together. Home in BNE by Fri 13 May, so I can fly to US (is SAC Sacramento?) the next day for a conference.

Any tips or thoughts on the itinerary?
Ideas for first-time trips to Europe? ILs are happy to do "whatever you're doing". Shall I say there are some decision making issues, hence why they've probably never gone to Europe before.

Would love any thoughts, feedback, suggestions. I'm pretty much the travel planner, accommodation finder, organiser of the family ...

 

[docjames]

Sounds great.

If wanting Y+, then BNE-SIN has no Y+ seating and the QF fares basically charge you full Y+ price and you get Y seats. So if wanting Y+ you need to transit SYD or MEL.

Also, recommend trying the Chunnel instead of CDG-LHR, go city centre to city centre instead (CDG is rubbish and LHR can be a pain). Time wise it works out roughly the same and is probably a good "experience" for the ILs.

 

[mhen]

My two cents worth!

BNE-SYD-SIN-LHR-CDG is a long trip even in Y+. My strategy now that I am older and less foldable is to have a 24 hour stopover in SIN. A good sleep in a real bed, a leisurely stroll around, a dip in the pool etc means I get to LHR feeling vaguely normal and able to face any onward connections.

Did a week last May in an apartment in Paris, loved being part of a normal Pariesian neighbourhood. My french vocab is about 10 words but found if I started with bon jour, finished with au revoir, with a few s'il vous plait and merci in between it was ok to use English words or to point and hold up fingers for quantities. I always apologised for my lack of french and found politeness and smiles go a long way. The young girl in the local bakers started teaching me french words on my third visit as did the man running the internet cafe next door.

 

[Katie]

Thanks docjames and mhen for your responses. I might suggest that the ILs travel a day earlier than us, stop in Singapore for a day, then we meet up to fly together/on the same plane for the leg to LHR.

I was aware of the need to go through SYD or MEL for Y+ - I certainly don't want to pay for a full Y+ fare and end up in Y BNE-SIN. As long as we've got plenty of juice for Little Miss's DVD player (and perhaps my iPad/iPhone), I reckon she'll cope with the transiting OK. I know we can. And there's the extra few SCs.
Eurostar/Chunnel is a good idea for CDG-LHR, as long as we can find somewhere to return the car without driving in central Paris. Little worried about those roundabouts and French drivers.

 

[digga]

If you're looking to avoid travel out of Paris by car (which is frankly a pretty good idea, as it's heavy with traffic at the best of times), why not take a train from Gare du Nord to Amiens (about 1 hour 5 mins, and 10 euros for an advance purchase ticket per person one way). From there, you can pick up a car at Amiens station or Avis in the centre (about a 7 minute walk from the station). Do your driving to VB and Reims, drop the car back off in Amiens then either take the train to Lille or Paris to take the Eurostar, or a train to CDG to fly to LHR. It'll save time, won't be that much more expensive (freeway tolls and petrol cost a lot , and will be a whole lot more enjoyable.

 

[medhead]

I was over in Europe in 2007 with the family and mum. We had a bit of trouble finding hotels for 5 that were reasonably priced. But the place in Paris was rather reasonable with an apartment, this was Citadines St Germain des Pres. Nice location on the left bank, the staff were great and it was a good price. We walked from there to everywhere, effiel, notre dame, lourve, cafe de flore. But of course it isn't near Bastille

 

[digga]

I meant to add that if you need any help, pointers or info. on stuff in France, just let me know and I'll see what I can do to assist (especially in Amiens/VB - 'cause that's where I live).

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Hi,

I am ina Paris Apartment writing this.
We area family of 5 and have stayeda week.

The Metro makes it iasy to get around and 10 tickets only cost 12 Euro.
We are near ROME station and so are walking distance of many places and easy Metro to all others.

Being just outside of the main tourist precinct is great as you are living in an authentic Paris area with the locals.....so when dining ina restaurant at night you are only with the locals rather thana restaraunt full of tourists. Also the prices for most things including the apartment are much cheaper.

Travel on the Eurostar between London and Paris..it is the only way to go.

We stayed in London fora week in the Bloomsbury are ina 2 bed apartment. Onlya few hundred metres from the St Pancras Train Station for the Eurostar and very central to most of the main sights in London. You can walk to many...ie West End Theatre shows are say 20 minutes walk. Tube stations are everywhere if required.

We were also only several hunded metres from the a Hop On Hop Off Bus stop....passes last 24 hours on Boarding time. Soa 10am start meant we could use the bus over 2 days.

Losts of great theatre shows...Love Never Dies the sequel to Pahantom was very good.


Have fun...

 

[Katie]

But the place in Paris was rather reasonable with an apartment, this was Citadines St Germain des Pres. Nice location on the left bank, the staff were great and it was a good price. We walked from there to everywhere, effiel, notre dame, lourve, cafe de flore. But of course it isn't near Bastille

We stayed in the Citadines in Bastille/Marais 2 years ago. Did you have to get two apartment rooms there?
We don't have to stay near Bastille, I've just found an apartment near there through a friend, which is rented directly by the owner. About Eur170/night, which seems to be reasonable. A friend had recommended somewhere else (super luxe, 3bed, all amenities) which is currently EUR3300/week, so 170/night works for me.

 

[Katie]

I meant to add that if you need any help, pointers or info. on stuff in France, just let me know and I'll see what I can do to assist (especially in Amiens/VB - 'cause that's where I live).

Thanks digga! Mr Katie and the ILs like the idea of the train - and we may even then do Amiens-Lille-London instead of CDG-LHR at the end of our week in the Somme/Champagne.
If you've got anywhere better than the Novotel Amiens/Boves for accommodation, would love to hear about it. We know the area a bit, after spending Remembrance Day in 2003 and ANZAC day in 2008 in VB and surrounds. And on the 2008 trip, we then spent the next three days touring assorted memorials and cemetries in the Somme. I will never do that again with an 18 month old! But I'm sure there's more things we'd like to know, apart from eating at the Novotel or buying groceries at the big Hypermarket nearby.

 

[medhead]

We stayed in the Citadines in Bastille/Marais 2 years ago. Did you have to get two apartment rooms there?
We don't have to stay near Bastille, I've just found an apartment near there through a friend, which is rented directly by the owner. About Eur170/night, which seems to be reasonable. A friend had recommended somewhere else (super luxe, 3bed, all amenities) which is currently EUR3300/week, so 170/night works for me.

I'm pretty sure we had a 2 bed apartment. We had a room the kids were on a sofa bed, just having trouble remembering where mum slept. But I think she had a room.

170 euro sounds like a great price. We would have easily paid that probably more like 200 a night, at least.

 

[digga]

For staying in and around Amiens (maybe as big as Toowoomba or Townsville in population, but much more compact), it depends on your budget. Having said that, you owe it to yourself (and the ILS) to do better than the Novotel near the mall!

In town, there are a few chain hotels, the better ones being the Mercure (new), All Seasons (eclectic buildings), Ibis (probably cheap), and the Holiday Inn express (next to the station). Add to that a few notable (for various reasons) places like the Carlton, Univers, Victor Hugo and ... Anzac Central. All are within a 5 minute walk of the centre of town. Like everywhere, parking can be a little difficult, but not in the evenings. If you've never been, do visit the cathedral - it's pretty impressive. If it's raining and you're bored, there's the museum/art gallery (small but ok for a couple of hours) and Jules Verne's house/museum (in between books, he was the mayor and is buried in the local cemetery - good for a wander, though out of the way).

If you want to stay somewhere a little out of the ordinary - even for a night on your way to or from Reims - you could do a lot worse than Le Macassar: in Corbie, about 10 kms from Amiens and 5 or 10 from VB, and truly memorable (think country manor, complete with trimmings ... and coughtails). It'd be my pick, even if just for one night (but ain't cheap). Then there are the plethora of BnBs dotted around the (fairly flat but picturesque) countryside.

If you're in the area for long enough, you should head east to the coast: Le Touquet (think: Paris's beach from the 19th to early 20th century), Saint Valery (gorgeous, and with a view) and the Baie de la Somme (complete with bird sanctuary, grazing sheep and seals) being the highlights.

And if you're doing VB, then you may also want to see Peronne's Great War Historial (mildly interesting museum): nowhere near as good as Caen's WWII museum, but a good overview of why, where, when and who, in an otherwise unmemorable town.

 

[Katie]

Digga,
Thanks for your comments. I'm getting back into organisation mode for this trip.
Mr Katie and I have been to Amiens/VB twice before - Remembrance Day in 2003 and ANZAC day in 2008. When I was researching for the 2008 trip, I couldn't find anywhere in Amiens with parking - though that year, many hotels were full with people on The Australian tours, and almost everywhere was booked out for 24/4 (we stayed at some horrid place at the back of the Novotel - La Premiere? - cheap as, would have been fine if we didn't have an 18mth old with us - so we find the Novotel pretty nice after having that bar set so low!). I read reviews on TripAdvisor of people having to refill meters with more coins in the middle of the night ..

I will start checking out the chains and other hotels you've mentioned.
How much does Amiens close down on Easter Monday? I've read that Monday is a bigger holiday/everything closes, rather than Good Friday. Next year, ANZAC day is on Easter Monday! We were surprised in 2003 to find the hypermarket and mall and the like were open on 11 Nov, even though guide books suggested that everything would be closed.

 

[Katie]

My two cents worth!

BNE-SYD-SIN-LHR-CDG is a long trip even in Y+. My strategy now that I am older and less foldable is to have a 24 hour stopover in SIN. A good sleep in a real bed, a leisurely stroll around, a dip in the pool etc means I get to LHR feeling vaguely normal and able to face any onward connections.

Thanks for this suggestion, mhen. I told the ILs, and they are thinking of travelling to SIN a few days before us, and we'll meet up in Changi, for the flights to LHR, then on to CDG. It's been about 13 years since their only 14hr flights to SFO, so they're a bit concerned about the trip. We can't leave any earlier, due to a family wedding on my side, but I think this will work for us. I also might give us a decent-ish stopover in LHR, plenty of time for showers, etc, if the BA dragons will let the 5 of us in with only two QP members. I'm thinking this because we won't be able to get into our apartment in Paris until 3pm - don't want to spend ages in LHR, but it would be nice not to be too rushed.

 

[digga]

Parking's only metered from 9 to 6 weekdays, and stops at 12 on Saturdays (I think ... don't have a car, so I'll go and look later Sundays is free, and from 12 to 2 the meter inspectors break for lunch (and practically all day, for all of August!), so it's not that bad ...

There's actually not that many streets that are metered, and you just need to get away from the central core to avoid meters - it only means a 10 minutes walk at most, more like 5, and pretty much everywhere next to the centre of town is calm and safe for parking on the street.

Easter Monday is the only public holiday, and you can always find something open for food, and a lot of the bigger supermarkets are open most if not all day. There's been a bit of a trend away from the traditional reticence to open shops on public holidays lately - up until 5 years ago or so, it was a lot like Australia prior to the mid 80s. These days you'll always find someone willing to break with tradition (and the law ... !).

 

[Katie]

Back in organisation mode, hopefully close to booking! Got a good deal at the Foight Centre Europe expo the other weekend, but the ILs weren't ready to purchase within a few days and there are some health issues in consideration, otherwise I would have just out it all on our CCs.
I also need to find another apartment in Paris for the 5 of us; the one I wanted has been booked out. Too early to book the one in London, and I've found a nice looking B&B in Champagne.
Tossing up whether to take our hire car to Lille & get the Eurostar there, or Disneyland Paris - but I don't think we'll do Disneyland.

Digga - I'm still thinking of the Novotel for our Amiens/VB nights for Anzac day. It seems that Easter Monday is a big holiday in France - would the parking inspectors be out in Amiens on a Sunday night before a public holiday?? (I understand of course no guarantees are given with your response!!)

 

[Princess Fiona]

IMHO, Miss Katie will love Disneyland Paris, its an easy train trip, more compact than Anaheim. The baby Shreks loved it when we went and I thought it well worth the daytrip.

 

[digga]

Digga - I'm still thinking of the Novotel for our Amiens/VB nights for Anzac day. It seems that Easter Monday is a big holiday in France - would the parking inspectors be out in Amiens on a Sunday night before a public holiday?? (I understand of course no guarantees are given with your response!!)

On-street parking isn't metered on Sundays (it's the free day - guaranteed, promise!) or public holidays, so you can park anywhere that's handy on Sunday or Easter Monday, if the hotel doesn't have off-street parking. If you're leaving the car in the street overnight close to the centre of town, fold in your side mirrors, as tweens have a habit of kicking them off ...

On a side note, make sure you hire the car from outside France, as domestic rentals are usually limited to 250 free kms / day (rates ex-France usually come with unlimited mileage).

Driving around town is easy (it's small), except for very small traffic jams at peak-hours mid-week. It'd be a shame to come all the way to Amiens and spend time in the freeway-side Novotel, rather than the Mercure (you can look out at the gothic cathedral) or Ibis downtown (or Holiday Inn Express if the chain doesn't matter, or any one of the reasonably cute inner-city hotels).

 

[Katie]

Either the big antique market or Little Miss 4 is not helping us find accommodation - I haven't yet given up, but Mercure is showing no availability for 24-26 April next year. This is why we had a horrid night at the Premier Classe in Amiens Est (over the back of the Novotel) in 2008. No availability for the night of the 24/4.
I'm sure the interwebz won't fail me ....