Transatlantic Y - AA or BA

[Shano]

I have another question wrt the 10 day rule.

I am booked to depart MEL on the 17th.

My flight back to MEL at the end of the trip currently is QF6 FRA-SYD via SIN, departing FRA on the 26th and arriving/departing SIN on the 27th.

The confusion is whether the single flight number counts in this instance, or do I need to switch to a differnt flight number SIN-SYD/MEL?

 

[NM]

If the ticket shows FRA-SYD then the date for departing FRA will be what is used to determine the minimum stay rule compliance. If its booked as FRA-SIN and SIN-SYD then its the SIN departure date that is used.

If they won't let you book it as two connecting sectors (QF5 FRA-SIN and QF5 SIN-SYD), then book it with the departure you want ex FRA and a 24 hour stoipover in SIN. Then once issued do a date change on the last SIN-SYD sector. So long as the new date still fits into the 10 day minimum stay rule you will then have two connecting sectors of the same flight. I had to do that once in order to have a DONE4 issued with QF10 LHR-SIN, followed by QF10 SIN-MEL, followed by QF10 MEL-SYD. I was under the 20 sector count and wanted the increased SCs for the separate segments.

Another way is to book the BA codeshare on one of the sectors.

 

[JohnK]

Also I prefer the 2-5-2 layout of the 777 compared to the 3-4-3 layout of the 747

Would the person lucky enough to sit in the middle seat in the row of 5 have the same preference?

 

[Shano]

If the ticket shows FRA-SYD then the date for departing FRA will be what is used to determine the minimum stay rule compliance. If its booked as FRA-SIN and SIN-SYD then its the SIN departure date that is used.

If they won't let you book it as two connecting sectors (QF5 FRA-SIN and QF5 SIN-SYD), then book it with the departure you want ex FRA and a 24 hour stoipover in SIN. Then once issued do a date change on the last SIN-SYD sector. So long as the new date still fits into the 10 day minimum stay rule you will then have two connecting sectors of the same flight. I had to do that once in order to have a DONE4 issued with QF10 LHR-SIN, followed by QF10 SIN-MEL, followed by QF10 MEL-SYD. I was under the 20 sector count and wanted the increased SCs for the separate segments.

Another way is to book the BA codeshare on one of the sectors.

Thanks NM. I will need to work on our TA a bit more.

 

[Dave Noble]

Would the person lucky enough to sit in the middle seat in the row of 5 have the same preference?

On a 3-3-3 layout there are 3 people who are 2 seats away from a passageway whilst on a 2-5-2 only 1 person is 2 seats away from a passageway. Means that more people are within 1 seat of a passageway than in a 3-3-3 layout ( or even more fun with the EK 3-4-3 layout )

Dave

 

[Shano]

If they won't let you book it as two connecting sectors (QF5 FRA-SIN and QF5 SIN-SYD), then book it with the departure you want ex FRA and a 24 hour stoipover in SIN. Then once issued do a date change on the last SIN-SYD sector. So long as the new date still fits into the 10 day minimum stay rule you will then have two connecting sectors of the same flight.....

Just so I am clear.....

Heading to the US I am transitting through NRT. Because this is just a transit I am permitted a stopover in Asia between Europe and SWP? Or does this count as the second intercontinental departure from Asia?

 

[NM]

Just so I am clear.....

Heading to the US I am transitting through NRT. Because this is just a transit I am permitted a stopover in Asia between Europe and SWP? Or does this count as the second intercontinental departure from Asia?

Technically no. The NRT on the way to the USA is technically your Asia continent visit. The only time you get the "free" Asia visit is if its a transit without stopover between Europe and SWP. In your case its a transit without stopover between SWP and North America.

Some people have reported success in having such a routing issued. It can be considered a little ambiguous since there is no punctuation in the fare rules. It depends on where one considers the "between SWP and Europe" to apply equally to either side of the "or" statement.

The wording is as follows:

Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe.

Now as it has no punctuation, it could be read in either of the following ways:

Two permitted in Asia when one is [a transfer without stopover], or [on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe].

or

Two permitted in Asia when one is [a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service] between the Southwest Pacific and Europe.

I believe the second is the correct and intended interpretation.

 

[Dave Noble]

I believe the second is the correct and intended interpretation.

And is the one that AA uses ime

Dave

 

[NM]

And is the one that AA uses ime

Dave

and Qantas.

 

[JohnK]

On a 3-3-3 layout there are 3 people who are 2 seats away from a passageway whilst on a 2-5-2 only 1 person is 2 seats away from a passageway.

Shouldn't that be on a 3-3-3 layout there are only 2 people, not 3, who are 2 seats away from a passageway.

I am still not convinced there would be too many people happy with having 2 people seated either side of them.

 

[Shano]

Well, QF wouldn't ticket without either departing Europe on the 27th (if on a through flight such as QF6, or even using the BA codeshare on one of the flights), or a stopover in ASIA so that the final segment departs on the 28th, i.e. FRA-SIN dep 26th, arr 27th; SIN-MEL dep 28th.

But, because I am going via NRT on the way to the US, they are saying that this in my one ASIA visit so I cannot stopover on the Europe - SWP flight.

The problem with departing Europe on the 27th is that it does not get me back to MEL until the 29th, and I wanted to be back for the 28th.

Unfortunately there is too much of a price differential between the LONE4 and DONE4 to consider the DONE4 and avoid the 10 day rule altogether.

This trip is for next week, so time and L availability is running out (or gone). May just end up becoming a MEL-PIT-MEL return with MEL-KRK-MEL at a later date.

 

[Dave Noble]

Well, QF wouldn't ticket without either departing Europe on the 27th (if on a through flight such as QF6, or even using the BA codeshare on one of the flights), or a stopover in ASIA so that the final segment departs on the 28th, i.e. FRA-SIN dep 26th, arr 27th; SIN-MEL dep 28th.

But, because I am going via NRT on the way to the US, they are saying that this in my one ASIA visit so I cannot stopover on the Europe - SWP flight.

I would use AA for booking and cut the fines down. They will probably correctly apply the min stay rule that states

TRAVEL ON THE LAST INTERNATIONAL SECTOR MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN 10 DAYS AFTER COMMENCEMENT OF THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL SECTOR

and not try inventing ( as QF are want to do ) new rules

They are perfectly correct in that you cannot have a stopover. If you want a stopover , then change the routing to MEL-LAX-DFW and avoid Asia ; that way when you enter Asia from Europe, stopovers will not be an issue

Dave

 

[Shano]

Cheers Dave. I might give AA a call.

I have no problem with the stop over issue as this is pretty clear cut application of the rules.

I chose the NRT option as it meant a late afternoon departure on the 17th, getting me to DFW just a few hours before my colleagues who are departing MEL on the 18th.

Failing that, I might book QF94 on the 17th, which gives me 24 hours in LA before the others arrive. This will hopefully allow me to get back to MEL on the 28th.

 

[Shano]

OK, now QF had said that I can have a stopover in Asia between Europe and SWP, even though I am tansitting through Asia on the way to North America. In fact, they want to enforce the stopover.

This doesn't help me though as it still means that I get home on the 29th, not the 28th.

Will call AA ATW in the morning and see if they will ticket such that a routing FRA-HKG-MEL, with a transit in HKG on the 27th, satisfies the 10 day rule (still departing on the 17th).

Although frustrating, this has been quite an educational experience.

The thread title should really be "Shano's first attempt at a OW Explorer"

 

[Dave Noble]

OK, now QF had said that I can have a stopover in Asia between Europe and SWP, even though I am tansitting through Asia on the way to North America. In fact, they want to enforce the stopover.

This doesn't help me though as it still means that I get home on the 29th, not the 28th.

Will call AA ATW in the morning and see if they will ticket such that a routing FRA-HKG-MEL, with a transit in HKG on the 27th, satisfies the 10 day rule (still departing on the 17th).

Although frustrating, this has been quite an educational experience.

The thread title should really be "Shano's first attempt at a OW Explorer"

I really would avoid QF when planning an ATW trip. AA has a desk specially dedicated to ATW bookings with staff that mostly are good at the rules rather than the QF "make it up as you go along" rules. Adding in the benefit of lower fines, it seems a no brainer to me to use AA for these

Dave

 

[Shano]

I really would avoid QF when planning an ATW trip. AA has a desk specially dedicated to ATW bookings with staff that mostly are good at the rules rather than the QF "make it up as you go along" rules. Adding in the benefit of lower fines, it seems a no brainer to me to use AA for these

Dave

I have tried to get the TA to talk to AA, but they seem to want to only deal with QF.

I will call AA in the morning and see if they will ticket my preferred itinerary. From what has been posted I should have a reasonable chance.

That being the case I will then tell the TA to book through AA.

I have the AA booking reference so they should be able to look up the itinerary. Given I am keen to get this sorted out, can I instruct AA to ticket, or does this need to be done through the TA. Even if I could instruct AA to ticket I would happily still pay the agent their booking fee as they have put a fair bit of time into this.

 

[Dave Noble]

I have tried to get the TA to talk to AA, but they seem to want to only deal with QF.

I will call AA in the morning and see if they will ticket my preferred itinerary. From what has been posted I should have a reasonable chance.

That being the case I will then tell the TA to book through AA.

I have the AA booking reference so they should be able to look up the itinerary. Given I am keen to get this sorted out, can I instruct AA to ticket, or does this need to be done through the TA. Even if I could instruct AA to ticket I would happily still pay the agent their booking fee as they have put a fair bit of time into this.

You need to ask yourself, are you wanting the ticket for your benefit or for the Travel Agents? why let them charge you extra for their benefit of ticketing through QF?

Phone AA 1st thing in the morning and put the itinerary in place; it will take around a day for the taxes to get calculated

you can then either (a) ticket through AA with no fees or (b) pay the travel agent to issue it

Personally I would not use a TA for ATWs

Dave

 

[NM]

Personally I would not use a TA for ATWs

Especially a TA who does not seem to be representing your wishes or best interests. If the TA was adding value, making some of the suggestions you have found here on this forum, and working to ensure the issuing airline is correctly interpreting and applying the fare rules, then the TA is a good option.

 

[Shano]

I did ring AA ATW desk and the agent I spoek to confirmed that my desired itinerary was valid, i.e. final international segment departing HKG-SYD on 27th.

In the end I took the easy option and told my TA that AA would ticket, so if QF would not, then have the ticket issued through AA.

It would seem that QF came to there senses and agreed to issue the ticket.

I will definitely deal directly with AA in the future if booking another ATW.

Thanks for all the tips / advice.

 

[Dave Noble]

I did ring AA ATW desk and the agent I spoek to confirmed that my desired itinerary was valid, i.e. final international segment departing HKG-SYD on 27th.

In the end I took the easy option and told my TA that AA would ticket, so if QF would not, then have the ticket issued through AA.

It would seem that QF came to there senses and agreed to issue the ticket.

I will definitely deal directly with AA in the future if booking another ATW.

Thanks for all the tips / advice.

Glad it worked out. Was there a reason why you wanted to pay the extra few hundred $$$ that it can cost to have it issued via QF rather than AA?

Dave