Top Five European Pickpocketing Locations - No Real Surprises.

[Renato1]

There are several parts of the apparent "apathy" of police in those various jurisdictions to act. Some are somewhat understandable and others not. Let's dump them all out.

Maybe the police have bigger fish to fry. A problem like pickpocketing can be "self-regulated" by the individual, viz. by having people more vigilant, it "solves" the problem without actually needing police effort. Someone actually robbing you by force is different.

In order to charge someone for a crime, you need to see them do it, or have incontrovertible witnesses to that event. I think you are actually much sharper than the average person, let alone the average tourist, when it comes to spotting pickpockets. I don't rank police in those jurisdictions as necessarily as bright as you as picking out pickpockets, unless racial assumptions (e.g. spotting Roma) counts. Even more to that is picking out who are pickpockets without letting on that they are police. The pickpockets aren't dumb either - they know faces and unless the police force goes through a high turnover rate, you can dress a cop in Roma clothes and they'll still know they are a cop and thus won't let on.

The best pickpockets can steal from a mark without anyone else knowing. That includes police. The mark won't know they've been had until the thief is well and truly away from the scene. If they are caught by surveillance cameras, the relay between seeing the act and any police force nearby to catch the thief is often too late. You can't just pull up any person and say they are a thief and charge them with theft, even if they truly are a pickpocket, unless you have evidence that they have. Returning to the station and interrogating the **** out of them, even if they confess, is a lot to go through just to nail one pickpocket who has no chance of recompensing their victims. If they are a child or under the age of being able to be legally charged, they basically get let go, since you can't do anything against them - you almost have no right to detain them, and you can't physically discipline them.

You can't just pick them up saying they are thieves then deport them. If they have no ID, where do you send them? You can't just shoot them, tempting as it might be. You can't chop off their hands. If you put them all in jail then that'll be a pretty sight and a mess to manage (and you actually need to feed, clothe and make sure they are humanely comfortable in jail). If you catch one in the act, making you whole involves ensuring you have the item back; anything punitive against the thief for attempting to steal from you in the first place is normally not a topic of discussion, and if it is then we are back to what do we do about it.

There was a story of a man in Paris who was taking money out of an ATM when he was set upon by a group of Roma teenagers. Nothing subtle here, just swarm and start rummaging for stuff to steal. I think he froze but otherwise managed to scare them off before anything got stolen. The kids just resumed walking down the street as if nothing happened. There really is nothing you could have done. You might have been able to take a swipe or punch at one of them, and if you get pinged for it, you could claim self-defence.

Then of course, there's your approach - never go back.

Maybe police aren't really doing their job (some would say, who could blame them, the pay is ****). After all, the combined forces of two countries cannot stop the flow of illegal immigrants at Calais; with all the technology, personnel and several options for improving the process. That doesn't compute...

Thanks. I didn't really put my post in context. We didn't see pickpockets while doing our cappuccino thing in places like London, Berlin, Vienna, Ljubljana, Zagreb, Amsterdam, Luxembourg, Berne, Zurich and Budapest. And the places with easily the largest numbers of visible police were Madrid and Rome.

So, the contrast for us was remarkable - Rome and Madrid had the largest number of visible police on the streets, and the largest number of easily spotted pickpockets.

The notion that pickpockets would be able to identify undercover police doesn't really follow, given the relatively huge numbers of police in cars and on foot in the streets.

You say that the police may have bigger things to fry. Given that all they seem to be doing is wandering or driving around the streets, what exactly are they frying? The arresting of hundreds of thieves, and the effective prevention of future thefts would seem to me to be a fairly big thing to fry, as opposed to just wandering around ineffectively.

I don't think that my wife and I are any sharper than anybody else in spotting the bleeding obvious. I know that one needs evidence to convict someone. With pickpockets operating in such an easily noticeable manner, how hard can it be for a pair of undercover police to spot them, monitor their activity, and then arrest them on suspicion of theft when they are observed to act on a mark - including their partners to whom they pass the pickpocketed stuff. Being in possession of someone else's wallet or passport which has just been stolen is pretty good evidence.

It may well be that the police can't be bothered because after having arrested the people, a magistrate just fines them and lets them go. A case of a lot of effort for little result, despite their success. That would indicate a failure of the entire legal system to care about the welfare of both tourists and of the locals who are being continuously robbed.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

It really just sounds like you should stay in Wonthaggi and never go anywhere!

I don't know why it sounds that way to you.
Anyhow, I just remembered, I also get Farah Casuals on the main street of Phillip Island.
Regards,
Renato

 

[vetrade]

I think there's complacency on the part of both police and authorities in places like Madrid, Rome and Paris. It's not as if it's a mystery as to where the pickpockets are - the Eiffel Tower and Montmartre are crawling with them. Surely they could get these people to move on if they really valued how their city presented to tourists. Maybe it's not PC to be seen to be cracking down on minorities? The contrast with places like NY where you can walk virtually anywhere day or night is obvious.

I do agree with the sentiments mentioned by others in that the constant vigilance required in places where thieves are prevalent takes away much of the enjoyment of visiting those places. Much harder to enjoy a place where you are constantly aware that, as a tourist, you have a target on your back. For us Madrid, Rome and Paris are just transit cities these days unless there's something specific we want to do.

 

[RooFlyer]

Never been pickpocketed, never had anything stolen on the street (touch wood).

One incident - in Nairobi. Walking down a crowded street. Happened to glance behind and saw 3 kids running towards me, about 5 m away, grinning. No escape, so just thrust hands into front pockets, arms to sides. Hands everywhere but no violence. After a few seconds the crowd starts to harangue the thieves and they ran off, empty handed.

 

[opusman]

Other than Rome the only place I have ever seen attempted pickpocketing take place was in Sydney.

 

[Cossie]

Two attempts were made on us in Bamako a few years ago. Another in Chengdu in the early eighties, several other attempts at various places over the years. Only time I have lost something, it was my own stupid fault, this was in Essaouira in Morocco.

The most sinister occurrence was in Barcelona a couple of years ago, seems I had been 'marked' on the train from the airport, a local told me to move to another seat away from the person sitting opposite me and he proceeded to tell me how the scam worked. The would be robber was very displeased.

I wear pants that have several pockets on the front, the bottom one has a zip which is where my wallet goes, even at home the shorts I wear mostly are the same. When traveling my passport and most money is in a pouch around my neck, under my clothes. My wife says i look like a dag, but I really don't care.

 

[Renato1]

Much harder to enjoy a place where you are constantly aware that, as a tourist, you have a target on your back.

Very much in agreement with you. While we like living in Italy outside of the major cities, where pickpocketing isn't quite as bad, but we feel much more relaxed and safe when we drive into Croatia for our stays there - the police and border guards all seem to have a "Don't Mess with Me - or Else" attitude. I wouldn't want to be a pickpocket messing with them.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

I wear pants that have several pockets on the front, the bottom one has a zip which is where my wallet goes, even at home the shorts I wear mostly are the same.

Beware of dwarves on Roman buses.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[legroom]

Crowded metro in Paris

Approached by a young girl clutching her tummy as if in some discomfort

So I stood up to give her the seat. That was when I could feel fingers rummaging through my pockets & backpack but luckily my wife - still sitting down - had a direct view.

Everyone just stopped and walked away when my wife tapped the hands of the Gypsies and they knew it was time to leave for another target

Moral of the story: don't give up your seat !
(tongue in cheek)

 

[dmitri]

I just got to my hotel in Stockholm and found this in the room info folder, I will be on the hunt

 

[Ausbt]

Other than Rome the only place I have ever seen attempted pickpocketing take place was in Sydney.

Did you chase them down? Hard to comment without the specific circumstances, but I'd be appalled and want to go for the citizens arrest. Of course they could have been big and ugly...?

 

[opusman]

Did you chase them down? Hard to comment without the specific circumstances, but I'd be appalled and want to go for the citizens arrest. Of course they could have been big and ugly...?

No, that was before I realised a swift right hook causing possible brain damage or even death was an entirely proportionate response to petty street theft. I'll be sure to be more vigilant(e) next time.

 

[anat0l]

No, that was before I realised a swift right hook causing possible brain damage or even death was an entirely proportionate response to petty street theft. I'll be sure to be more vigilant(e) next time.

Hmmm.... that's quite a dilemma.

 

[Pushka]

Makes you really appreciate most parts of Australia though, doesn't it.

 

[anat0l]

Makes you really appreciate most parts of Australia though, doesn't it.

When pickpocketing becomes mainstream in Australia..........

 

[codash1099]

I just got to my hotel in Stockholm and found this in the room info folder, I will be on the hunt

View attachment 64420

An unexpected place to be finding pickpockets, one would have thought. I did, until I had my pocket picked somewhere between my hotel and boarding a train at the Stockholm station.

Managed to foil (only just) a pair operating in Naples who had their hands on my phone before I created a fuss.

 

[opusman]

Makes you really appreciate most parts of Australia though, doesn't it.

Yeah, absolutely no crime in Australia is there.

 

[Renato1]

I just got to my hotel in Stockholm and found this in the room info folder, I will be on the hunt

View attachment 64420

The pickpocket situation in Stockholm has suddenly gotten so bad that some evil racist thugs have turned to vigilante action against the poor youths.

Swedes Fight Back | Power Line

Regards,
Renato

 

[cs1575]

No Surprise... One of my friend was a victim in Barcelona...

 

[vetrade]

No, that was before I realised a swift right hook causing possible brain damage or even death was an entirely proportionate response to petty street theft. I'll be sure to be more vigilant(e) next time.

Touche’, I’m sure your characterisation would appeal to the hand-wringers but, for want of a better word, it’s simplistic. Most people freeze or panic when faced with a threat. By being unprepared to react immediately and decisively they relinquish control over their fate, and possibly the fate of their loved ones, to the (as yet undetermined) whims of a stranger.

Reaction is not vigilantism – it is self-preservation. “In the moment” the only thing you know for sure is that someone is trying to commit a crime against you, with the exact nature and extent of the “threat” impossible to know accurately. It may just be a “petty street crime” but if you assume that and you’re wrong you may well have missed your best (only?) opportunity to manage (control) the situation.

A topical news report this morning was “Thief attempts to steal woman’s handbag; woman’s elderly husband is fighting for his life after being stabbed while coming to his wife’s aid”. I bet this couple don’t think it was a “petty street crime”. And that was in Melbourne!

There’s no time to ask yourself “How many are there, do they have weapons etc.”? Anyone who tries to decide what their “proportionate response” should be under such circumstances is naïve to what can happen in the real world, especially if that real world is a foreign city and you and your wife are alone against multiple offenders in an underground metro.

Everyone should give some thought, ahead of time, as to how they could or should react in a threatening scenario. I’m definitely not paranoid but I am pragmatic - to me that’s just common sense. Be alert, not alarmed, as they say! The time to give it some thought is not when something is actually happening. Even if there don’t seem to be any options you still have to think of one.

I’m happy to reflect on whether it’s a “petty street crime”, a mugging, or worse, after I know there is no longer a threat. To me these people are career criminals exercising a lifestyle choice. Their choice, their risk.

The strategy I was taught was to enlist the element of surprise and a greatly disproportionate (excessive) response to neutralise the situation in as short a time as possible. If confronting more than one person the imperative is to ensure you only turn your attention to the next one once you know the first has been rendered incapable of further participation. That means being efficient – and if you know your anatomy and have good technique it can be done safely. Edit: Doesn't help when you skin your knees scrambling up the stairs after No. 2 though!