The more things change, the more they stay the same

[RooFlyer]

I haven't had to call the Qantas call centre in years ... but I did this morning, twice - not much has changed, it seems.

After I used a gift voucher to book a flight about a week ago, the reservation appeared in the app but I didn't get the eticket that day. I got back into the country on the weekend and still no ticket. I assumed that it was stuck in the queue but as didn't want to forget about it, I called as Plat this morning and pleasantly surprised to get Hobart (judging by the accent and clarity of the line).

No problem with the booking, I was assured, just queued because the flight wasn't for about 4 months (that sounded familiar), but they said they would 'try' to force it.

About 10 minutes after I hung up I got an e-mail saying there was a problem with payment & to call.

I called and by the accent and noise on the line, and chatter of others in the background I assumed I got Fiji (later confirmed). Brace, brace, brace!!

One of those calls from the bad old days (which seem to be 'these days'). Agent had great difficulty in understanding the issue, even bringing up the booking. After much tapping, asking questions, not understanding etc etc etc, going off to ask somebody (by which time I was contemplating HUCA) they eventually said that 'payment has been refused'. By the card, I asked? No, by Qantas. Really. A lot more back-and-forth but eventually got to the position where I gave them my card again and it processed OK, ticket issued immediately.

I'm wondering what would have happened if I hadn't called. Presumably the booking would have been quietly cancelled at some stage.

Why wouldn't Qantas at least try to process the payment when the reservation was made?

How can the reservation appear in the app when no payment has been made?

After all the Joycean kerfuffle, some things haven't changed it seems (this, along with their business catering) ...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A PNR is your reservation.

Payment is indicated by the ticket.

That’s how it can appear in the app, but not have been paid.

Some fares don’t require instant ticketing.

Lots of folk assumed because they could select seats or choose meals that their ticket must have been issued. Which is why the advice is to call the airline if there’s any doubt, and ask specifically ‘is there a ticket number against this booking?’

(edited to fix spelling)

 

[muppet]

A PNR is your reservation.

Payment is indicated by the ticket.

That’s how it can appear in the app, but not have been paid.

Some fares don’t require instant ticketing.

Lots of folk assumed because they could select seats or choose meals that their ticket must have been issued. Which is why the advice is to call the airline if there’s any doubt, and ask specifically ‘is there a ticket number August this booking?’

I think if a fare can be booked and priced online at qantas.com, it should just be ticketed instantly.

If not, then why does it seem like many in QF call centres cannot resolve it?

I had a family member recently make a booking, it didn’t ticket for a few weeks, call centre couldn’t fix it and the only solution was for them to cancel the unticketed booking and re-book it…. At a new higher fare.

 

[RooFlyer]

Lots of folk assumed because they could select seats or choose meals that their ticket must have been issued. Which is why the advice is to call the airline if there’s any doubt, and ask specifically ‘is there a ticket number August this booking?’

There, you see, I'm not match fit. I forget to ask that magic question on my first call!

But still doesn't answer why they wouldn't process payment at the time of reservation; not doing so is just asking for problems. I mean, who knows what the state of the card will be (ie maxed out?), or if the card is even still in use, months down the track.

It was a domestic J reservation.

 

[SYD]

There, you see, I'm not match fit. I forget to ask that magic question on my first call!

But still doesn't answer why they wouldn't process payment at the time of reservation; not doing so is just asking for problems. I mean, who knows what the state of the card will be (ie maxed out?), or if the card is even still in use, months down the track.

It was a domestic J reservation.

The key piece of the puzzle was that you used a “gift voucher”. So presumably there was an existing PNR (that carried across) and there would have been some payment details associated.

SYD+1 recently used a flight credit (had to change a movie session time) and got a message that there was an issue.

My booking, same flight but different voucher went through immediately.

Turns out the iPad had auto populated the CC details with an incorrect expiry date. Instead of rejecting the payment, the new booking went through pending payment. Kind of weird but sounds like it may have been something similar for you?

 

[RooFlyer]

Turns out the iPad had auto populated the CC details with an incorrect expiry date. Instead of rejecting the payment, the new booking went through pending payment. Kind of weird but sounds like it may have been something similar for you?

Don't know. I did it on a laptop and don't recall it being out of the ordinary other than it going via the redeem gift voucher system.

But how stupid is it that you make a 'booking', it shows in the app and on line as being 'there', but they haven't secured funds so they aren't doing anything. Its like buying something online and having it delivered and it says 'its on its way' - but its not, because to them, you haven't paid.

FFS if they must 'queue' ticketing and payment processing, why not, on the app/web site against the booking, say 'pending payment'? Too hard? Don't care? Interns clueless?

I'll look out when I use the next gift voucher.

EDIT: Great. I go on the web now to check again, and the page won't load properly. Can't log on.

 

[odysseus]

Don't know. I did it on a laptop and don't recall it being out of the ordinary other than it going via the redeem gift voucher system.

But how stupid is it that you make a 'booking', it shows in the app and on line as being 'there', but they haven't secured funds so they aren't doing anything. Its like buying something online and having it delivered and it says 'its on its way' - but its not, because to them, you haven't paid.

FFS if they must 'queue' ticketing and payment processing, why not, on the app/web site against the booking, say 'pending payment'? Too hard? Don't care? Interns clueless?

For the first, it's designed that way. It's not a requirement that every booking must be paid when made, and indeed it needs to be that way otherwise you'd be making a multi-flight booking and then try to pay but then find the price has increased as someone else paid for the last available leg at that price on one of your sectors at the same time as you were still choosing your legs - whoops! So by design trips are added to a booking - and then payment is made (though that's not the only reason).

As for the second, yes, agreed. That should be made more visible when that is an issue. It's probably seen as an infrequent/atypical situation for direct customers, but still should be catered for. But like a lot of things nowadays, companies just focus on the typical processes, and avoid spending money on infrequent situations, just "direct to customer service" - but then don't cater for it well there either as you experienced, and also minimise costs and deliver poor experiences that way.

 

[RooFlyer]

For the first, it's designed that way. It's not a requirement that every booking must be paid when made, and indeed it needs to be that way otherwise you'd be making a multi-flight booking and then try to pay but then find the price has increased as someone else paid for the last available at that price at the same time as you were still choosing your legs - whoops!

I appreciate the explanation, thanks but don’t understand. I’m afraid.

As I select a flight leg, surely it’s locked for me ( including the availability of the seat, say if it happens to be the last one on the flight). I mean, a simple return flight is multi leg and I would never expect anything than the first leg to be still available at the same price by the time I select the second.

At the end of the process I’ve got the several flights, the total price, it tells me to pay, so I offer a credit card and hit ‘pay’.

Why shouldn’t the payment go through there and then ( unless to be found to be unacceptable). Sorry, that’s not challenging you, and if you can be bothered to give me a further explanation, I’d appreciate it.

 

[Aeryn]

Did you make this purchase on 21 April? Seems like something funky was happening that day.

Your post had me worried as I cancelled a DSC movie session on 21 April to a credit, then immediately used that voucher to buy a double feature as part of the excellent Red Tail J sales for BNE.

I got the credit voucher email immediately but didn't recall the new e-ticket arriving for the SYD-BNE-SYD, but I too have been away so not looking too closely.

The new flights show on the web and in my app, and i checked and the additional payment went through against my Amex successfully (not pending) on 21st, but there was no new e-ticket in my email.

So I went into MMB and asked for invoice to be resent and of course the original e-ticket was resent (a known issue).

I wasnt too worried as we are talking about domestic seats on QF metal, but as i had some time i called Qantas.

Got through to premium line although sounded like Philippines, they said the e-ticket had been re-issued and all was ok, didnt know why i didnt get an email, but resent the new itinerary/tax-invoice for the new booking (the ugly looking text version, not the colourful one you get for new bookings).

I checked and the e-ticket number was different to the original one I received, so it seems like there was just a glitch with generating and sending a new PDF.

They really do need to fix the glitch where changes to PNRs do not update the e-ticket/tax invoice in MMB, but I feel better knowing all is ok for my actual flights.

 

[RooFlyer]

Did you make this purchase on 21 April?

22nd.

our post had me worried as I cancelled a DSC movie session on 21 April to a credit, then immediately used that voucher to buy a double feature as part of the excellent Red Tail J sales for BNE.

I thought changes of of the movie offers via a credit were specifically excluded as being eligible ... maybe not the offer you are talking about, but anyway, it seems to have worked.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I appreciate the explanation, thanks but don’t understand. I’m afraid.

As I select a flight leg, surely it’s locked for me ( including the availability of the seat, say if it happens to be the last one on the flight). I mean, a simple return flight is multi leg and I would never expect anything than the first leg to be still available at the same price by the time I select the second.

At the end of the process I’ve got the several flights, the total price, it tells me to pay, so I offer a credit card and hit ‘pay’.

Why shouldn’t the payment go through there and then ( unless to be found to be unacceptable). Sorry, that’s not challenging you, and if you can be bothered to give me a further explanation, I’d appreciate it.

You are both in agreement.

Odysseus was exactly making that point. The system doesn’t require payment immediately when you make a booking, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to add legs for multi sectors - ot waits until at least you have put all the sectors in the booking before pricing it.

So the point remains, you aren’t always required to pay immediately, to allow for things such as complex itineraries.

It works most of the time. Sometimes it doesn’t.

It just as people double check their order from woollies or elsewheee on line, or double check a payment has gone through to a supplier, air tickets are no different. You checked, found an issue, and it was fixed.

 

[RooFlyer]

Odysseus was exactly making that point. The system doesn’t require payment immediately when you make a booking, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to add legs for multi sectors - ot waits until at least you have put all the sectors in the booking before pricing it.

So the point remains, you aren’t always required to pay immediately, to allow for things such as complex itineraries.

Yes, but without wanting to be argumentative ( moi?! ), I wasn't booking a complex itinerary - just simple domestic return flight. I put all the sectors in - two. If the damn thing says 'Pay this now' and I indeed 'Pay now' why shouldn't it process 'now'? Or even overnight? And if it can't or won't, why not tell me?

It just as people double check their order from woollies or elsewheee on line, or double check a payment has gone through to a supplier, air tickets are no different. You checked, found an issue, and it was fixed.

It was fixed after 2 calls; the first assured me all was OK, when it wasn't. If someone puts a delivery order to Woolies, and Woolies sends them a pic of the order on the back of a truck, most people would assume that the order was OK. In my case, the booking appeared on the app/website looking fine, although it wasn't.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes, but without wanting to be argumentative ( moi?! ), I wasn't booking a complex itinerary - just simple domestic return flight. I put all the sectors in - two. If the damn thing says 'Pay this now' and I indeed 'Pay now' why shouldn't it process 'now'? Or even overnight? And if it can't or won't, why not tell me?



It was fixed after 2 calls; the first assured me all was OK, when it wasn't. If someone puts a delivery order to Woolies, and Woolies sends them a pic of the order on the back of a truck, most people would assume that the order was OK. In my case, the booking appeared on the app/website looking fine, although it wasn't.

it’s irrelevant whether the booking is for one leg, or complex. The system allows you to put in a leg (flight) and not pay for it immediately. That is, the system is designed to allow it to hold itineraries, and hold them before payment is received.

Lots of folk using travel agencies will do that… book now, and not pay till way down the track (if the fare permits that).

 

[alex.siukh]

I haven't had to call the Qantas call centre in years ... but I did this morning, twice - not much has changed, it seems.

After I used a gift voucher to book a flight about a week ago, the reservation appeared in the app but I didn't get the eticket that day. I got back into the country on the weekend and still no ticket. I assumed that it was stuck in the queue but as didn't want to forget about it, I called as Plat this morning and pleasantly surprised to get Hobart (judging by the accent and clarity of the line).

No problem with the booking, I was assured, just queued because the flight wasn't for about 4 months (that sounded familiar), but they said they would 'try' to force it.

About 10 minutes after I hung up I got an e-mail saying there was a problem with payment & to call.

I called and by the accent and noise on the line, and chatter of others in the background I assumed I got Fiji (later confirmed). Brace, brace, brace!!

One of those calls from the bad old days (which seem to be 'these days'). Agent had great difficulty in understanding the issue, even bringing up the booking. After much tapping, asking questions, not understanding etc etc etc, going off to ask somebody (by which time I was contemplating HUCA) they eventually said that 'payment has been refused'. By the card, I asked? No, by Qantas. Really. A lot more back-and-forth but eventually got to the position where I gave them my card again and it processed OK, ticket issued immediately.

I'm wondering what would have happened if I hadn't called. Presumably the booking would have been quietly cancelled at some stage.

Why wouldn't Qantas at least try to process the payment when the reservation was made?

How can the reservation appear in the app when no payment has been made?

After all the Joycean kerfuffle, some things haven't changed it seems (this, along with their business catering) ...

Except smiling and saying BULA BULA BULA, Fiji is not so helpful

 

[RooFlyer]

it’s irrelevant whether the booking is for one leg, or complex. The system allows you to put in a leg (flight) and not pay for it immediately. That is, the system is designed to allow it to hold itineraries, and hold them before payment is received.

Lots of folk using travel agencies will do that… book now, and not pay till way down the track (if the fare permits that).

Well, I really dunno.

'Holding itineraries to complete a complex booking' is not what we are talking about, not the situation I described. If it asks me to pay, and I choose to pay, if I give my cc etc, again, I ask - why doesn't it get processed then, if the system is working as it should? There's no mention of a 'hold'; and anyway, I don't want it.

No, I don't think this is a hidden 'hold' option. I think it was a stuff up (lets face it - not unknown). For some reason it didn't like the cc I entered, but didn't bother to flag anything until I called.

As for TAs (although not relevant to this discussion) - the days that you could book, cancel, and rebook, kicking the payment can down the road for months is long gone (the airlines fine the TAs if they do that now). Nowadays airlines give TAs varying time to ticket; sometime its a day, sometimes its a week. And TAs booking via the GDS or NPS is obviously not the same as me booking on Qantas.com .

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well, I really dunno.

'Holding itineraries to complete a complex booking' is not what we are talking about, not the situation I described. If it asks me to pay, and I choose to pay, if I give my cc etc, again, I ask - why doesn't it get processed then, if the system is working as it should? There's no mention of a 'hold'; and anyway, I don't want it.

No, I don't think this is a hidden 'hold' option. I think it was a stuff up (lets face it - not unknown). For some reason it didn't like the cc I entered, but didn't bother to flag anything until I called.

As for TAs (although not relevant to this discussion) - the days that you could book, cancel, and rebook, kicking the payment can down the road for months is long gone (the airlines fine the TAs if they do that now). Nowadays airlines give TAs varying time to ticket; sometime its a day, sometimes its a week. And TAs booking via the GDS or NPS is obviously not the same as me booking on Qantas.com .

You asked how can a booking show in the app even though it hasn’t been paid for.

That’s been explained. It’s irrelevant if it was a payment much-up with regards to your individual booking.

it can happen because that’s how the system was designed.

Should your lack of payment have been flagged? That’s a different issue.

 

[RooFlyer]

You asked how can a booking show in the app even though it hasn’t been paid for.

That’s been explained. It’s irrelevant if it was a payment much-up with regards to your individual booking.

it can happen because that’s how the system was designed.

Fair enough - we were at cross purposes. But its a stupid methodology to apply across all bookings. For consistancy and uniformity in presentation, 'Pending payment / ticketing' should be flagged against all incompleted bookings, - the type you described and when there has been a problem with payment.