Story of Qatar codeshare ticket desync and uncontactable customer service

[andrewpf]

Virgin Australia debacle on both legs of international holiday exposes 'infuriating' airline issue

Reading this article, I really question whether flying VA is worth the customer risk.

The fact that there was a major issue with this guy's ticket in both direction on his Qatar codeshare seems like a major and frustrating problem; but assuming it was a one off that happened to a very small number of customers (was it really? unlucky for VA it happened to someone that had a website platform to write about it) it maybe is understandable that these issues can happen. But then the question is how do they recover.

So, how can an airline that has flights leaving at all hours of the day (including codeshares where it has control over the ticket) not be contactable between 11pm - 5am? Not only not contactable by the customer; but not contactable by their airline partner. This isn't some minor airline with 4 planes, its got over 100 aircraft, flying as far as New Zealand and across to Bali; as well as its wet-lease through to Qatar and onward codeshares.

 

[RooFlyer]

The worst part of that story is Virgin didn’t have after hours customer service available even for its partner. Dumb. And still showing that tickets/flights in the app after the tickets were cancelled.

The cancellation thing while really bad, is far from unique, even in non-codeshare environments, unfortunately.

The story is a pretty good one showing the pit falls of flying especially with code shares and giving the technical reasons. Personally I avoid code shares where ever possible for exactly this type of reason. (presently 4 return trips to Doha and beyond booked and none of them are VA code shares.)

Interestingly that the author, in spite of two horrible experiences and their family being QFF flyers in general, says they’re still happy to fly with Virgin again for their next holiday!

So @andrewpf I’d take the lessons and tips given on board and not really have it colour you’re thinking in a major way going forward.

 

[Mwenenzi]

From the link

A small number of bookings for Virgin Australia flights operated by Qatar Airways were impacted by an isolated technical issue between Virgin Australia’s and Qatar Airways’ reservation systems during a system-related migration. While our teams worked hard to identify and rectify all impacted bookings, unfortunately a small number of changes were not captured. Virgin Australia sincerely apologises for the inconvenience caused to impacted guests.”

snip

The Qatar Airways flights were excellent and I would be keen to fly with them to Dublin in the future.

Despite this experience, I will probably book with Virgin Australia for my next trip for two reasons: their rewards program is more versatile for Australian residents and their prices can be slightly more competitive than booking directly with Qatar. However, it is important to keep the risks in mind for your next trip and prepare accordingly.

As a guess were on the VA marketed VA operated (via QR wet lease) flight. Those flights also have a QR codeshare flight number.
And DOH-DUB was a QR marketed (flight number) and QR operated. (not VA)

As they do not like transiting LHR after flying 24rs from Oz, next time they should book direct with QR on a real OR flights [QR marketed QR operated] and not a VA prime flight. Will get some VA ff points(?)
Or EK flights [ EK marketed EK operated ] BNE-DXB-DUB. Would get QF ff points, bur not SC (they sated are QF frequent flyers)

 

[clifford]

VA, despite the hype, really isn't a full service airline. Its hook up with QR just benefits QR.

VA just can't provide decent after sales service for such itineraries (what would the people in the Philippines know?).

So for anyone booking this kind of itinerary with VA its buyer beware. Perhaps the ACCC should have a good look at it.

 

[RooFlyer]

VA, despite the hype, really isn't a full service airline. Its hook up with QR just benefits QR.

You keep going on with comments like that which just ignore reality. As one simple example, QR’s tie up with VA allows VFF points holders to redeem points on Qatar/VA flights to Doha. Obviously a big benefit for Virgin flyers.

Furthermore, QR’s presence in the market with more services via VA wet lease imposes competition on the market to Europe which benefits everybody.

The OP themselves said they’d be happy to book Virgin again. They recognise that a single service failure, well actually two, does not condemn the entire operation. If it did, I don’t think any airline will be in business..

 

[SYD]

You keep going on with comments like that which just ignore reality. As one simple example, QR’s tie up with VA allows VFF points holders to redeem points on Qatar/VA flights to Doha. Obviously a big benefit for Virgin flyers.

Furthermore, QR’s presence in the market with more services via VA wet lease imposes competition on the market to Europe which benefits everybody.

The OP themselves said they’d be happy to book Virgin again. They recognise that a single service failure, well actually two, does not condemn the entire operation. If it did, I don’t think any airline will be in business..

The point @clifford is making is that VA primarily as a domestic LCC isn’t properly geared up to support some of these international partner ops. Analogous to booking flights via an OTA and things go wrong…

I had my own issue with a VA redemption. SQ flight from SIN to SAI. The VA website wouldn’t take my money to pay taxes etc (tried multiple times over several weeks). Resorted to calling up to get tickets issued. Payment made, points deducted YET both our names were wrong on the tickets and we would have been denied boarding if I hadn’t noticed.

Even my name was wrong and it was my FF account used to pay for the flights!

Rang them back and they had to cancel and rebook, but that required another $ payment and more points and I had to wait for the first payment in $ and points to be refunded.

 

[madrooster]

I strongly advise to not book the VA wet leases in particular. There's technical issues galore with them.

There can be up to 3 PNRs that exist for a single passenger to be booked on just one VA wet lease flight.

Eg. as the selling agent, I sell one pax on VA1. This creates a PNR in Amadeus, that then creates a PNR in VA's Sabre instance. That's one PNR in Amadeus and one PNR in Sabre.

Come 72 hours before departure, because QR handles the check in and flight management of the wet lease flights, Amadeus then copies the VA Sabre PNR back to Amadeus, which then creates a second Amadeus PNR.

Come day of travel there's 3 PNRs potentially - 2 in Amadeus, 1 in Sabre.

If you want to book VA code, book the VA codeshares operated by QR (ie. the real QR flights).

 

[Rebus]

I strongly advise to not book the VA wet leases in particular. There's technical issues galore with them.

Not of the same degree of seriousness of the person who had their flight cancelled but when we recently traveled on one of the wet-lease flights our pre-booked kids meals did not appear. The crew member serving us advised that this happens all the time on these services as 'the two airlines systems do not talk to each other'.

 

[madrooster]

Not of the same degree of seriousness of the person who had their flight cancelled but when we recently traveled on one of the wet-lease flights our pre-booked kids meals did not appear. The crew member serving us advised that this happens all the time on these services as 'the two airlines systems do not talk to each other'.

They do work, but you have to make sure that it's added into the correct one of the three PNRs. I would say on average that it's beyond the capability of 99% of passengers and 99% of travel agents.

 

[trisreed]

Even my name was wrong and it was my FF account used to pay for the flights!

This is what gets me (and has happened to me too!). If you are using the FF account to get my full name, how did you spell it wrong?

 

[Ade]

This is what gets me (and has happened to me too!). If you are using the FF account to get my full name, how did you spell it wrong?

Surprisingly this happened to me once in QF. Admittedly, had my cousin request a reward seat release (my cousin was WP and I was SG). My cousin gave my QFF number as the pax that wants to fly, but they asked my cousin to spell out my name, which my cousin did, but the ticket had spelling mistakes in my name. I noticed it once the etkt landed and asked my cousin to call QF and have the tickets cancelled on the same day.

 

[RooFlyer]

The point @clifford is making is that VA primarily as a domestic LCC isn’t properly geared up to support some of these international partner ops. Analogous to booking flights via an OTA and things go wrong…

Perhaps, but the particular point that was made and which I addressed is that the VAQR partnership only benefits QR, which is plainly wrong.

I was amazed to read that the VA customer service still operates Australian domestic hours which is bizarre and as I said, dumb.

As you have probably noticed I fly QR often. My own TA gives me a range of options for the journeys I wish to take and that often includes VA wet leases but they have always discouraged me from those, telling me they have had clients who have had problems (unspecified - but which may be similar to the ones that being referenced here - I should ask). As I mentioned above, I also try to even avoid code shares these days, as I get more risk averse. KISS in flying, I guess.

 

[madrooster]

As I mentioned above, I also try to even avoid code shares these days, as I get more risk averse. KISS in flying, I guess.

Most codeshares can be fine - if you have a good agent that knows what they're doing with them. If not, then it's better to avoid them.

 

[SYD]

Perhaps, but the particular point that was made and which I addressed is that the VAQR partnership only benefits QR, which is plainly wrong.

Yes, the overall partnership has some benefits for VFFs.

The wet-lease arrangements specifically are primarily to the advantage of QR and the loop hole to get extra Oz capacity.

But at the cost to VFF’s with these convoluted arrangements and peeps encouraged to seek out longhaul VA codeshares to attain/retain VA status under the new regime…

As you have probably noticed I fly QR often. My own TA gives me a range of options for the journeys I wish to take and that often includes VA wet leases but they have always discouraged me from those, telling me they have had clients who have had problems (unspecified - but which may be similar to the ones that being referenced here - I should ask). As I mentioned above, I also try to even avoid code shares these days, as I get more risk averse. KISS in flying, I guess.

Ditto, but we book direct with QR. Fortunately we have zero interest in VFF status these days so they contribute quite nicely to QF WP/OWE flying ex Asia.

I’m wary of codeshares but don’t avoid them as a rule, but we have two QR codeshares in our next trip (AY and IB). I’d flown DOH-MAD on the IB codeshare before so didn’t think twice, but now MAD-DOH is a PITA. The IB PNR doesn’t let us do anything (ie no seat selection…).

But at least I know not to book the GA operated QR codeshares to/from CGK! (No earn, no status as a QFF….).

 

[AuSammy]

This is what gets me (and has happened to me too!). If you are using the FF account to get my full name, how did you spell it wrong?

First reaction is “incredulous” but happens too often. I recently added a second policy to an existing insurance account and the certificate of coverage came in email with wrong spelling and I had to call back to get it re-issued.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes, the overall partnership has some benefits for VFFs.

The wet-lease arrangements specifically are primarily to the advantage of QR and the loop hole to get extra Oz capacity.

But at the cost to VFF’s with these convoluted arrangements and peeps encouraged to seek out longhaul VA codeshares to attain/retain VA status under the new regime…

Ditto, but we book direct with QR. Fortunately we have zero interest in VFF status these days so they contribute quite nicely to QF WP/OWE flying ex Asia.

I’m wary of codeshares but don’t avoid them as a rule, but we have two QR codeshares in our next trip (AY and IB). I’d flown DOH-MAD on the IB codeshare before so didn’t think twice, but now MAD-DOH is a PITA. The IB PNR doesn’t let us do anything (ie no seat selection…).

But at least I know not to book the GA operated QR codeshares to/from CGK! (No earn, no status as a QFF….).

I think it’s pretty clear QR would prefer to run the flights as their own and offer a VA codeshare (like the others) - accounts are the VA “operated” have a lower load factor and likely that’s in part non-QR oneworld members (BA, QF, et al) preferíng the true QR flights (and/or those booking the BA codeshare).

The previous authorisation indicated the wet lease must be time limited so will be interesting to see what happens. IMO I reckon QR will be granted the extra capacity they wanted originally. I’m not sure VA is getting the test it wanted into international expansion.

 

[rurounimaikeru]

What if J award space only available on wet lease flights?

Are there tips to minimise risk of issues with bookings? ( In addition to those in article.)

Re meals - how does one ensure its allocated to correct PNR?

 

[muppet]

… I’m not sure VA is getting the test it wanted into international expansion.

VA has openly indicated it gets no financial benefit from the wet-lease arrangement it set up. It is clearly solely setup for QR’s benefit and Bain agreed because it was able to sell 25% of VA in exchange for the deal. This was all made clear during the IPO.

From the prospectus:

While these arrangements with Qatar Airways are expected to generate longer term benefits, the overall impact of the wet lease arrangement and the new services to Virgin Australia’s EBIT is not expected to be material.

I’m amazed regulators fell for it.

 

[RooFlyer]

I’m amazed regulators fell for it.

Why? It’s not the regulators mandate to ensure a certain level of earnings of an airline.

The overarching condition (putting it pretty simply) is a benefit to Australian consumers and investors. As long as the directors can demonstrate a net benefit for shareholders or at least no detriment, and various laws and regulations are followed, a decision to enter into the wet lease agreement is fine.

We are here should be looking at the consumers point of view. If QR, Bain and Virgin want to put themselves out for only a small gain in providing the consumer with thousands of more seats to Europe, that’s okay with me.

 

[justinbrett]

Why? It’s not the regulators mandate to ensure a certain level of earnings of an airline.

The overarching condition (putting it pretty simply) is a benefit to Australian consumers and investors. As long as the directors can demonstrate a net benefit for shareholders or at least no detriment, and various laws and regulations are followed, a decision to enter into the wet lease agreement is fine.

We are here should be looking at the consumers point of view. If QR, Bain and Virgin want to put themselves out for only a small gain in providing the consumer with thousands of more seats to Europe, that’s okay with me.

These are all arguments in support of extra QR capacity, not VA wet leased flights - which you yourself have said you’ve been advised not to book, in concert with MadRoosters advice here.

I personally think even the regulators knew exactly what this was all about, and it was not a genuine attempt at VA resuming long haul flying. A clever solution to the capacity problem but let’s not pretend it’s anything more than it is.