Solar Panel, Power & Battery Discussion

[leadman]

I just opened AFF as I'm sculling a beer after spending the Melbourne morning/afternoon cleaning the 40 panels on the roof! It's one thing to pencil in that they do have to be cleaned when you put them in. One area with about 1 foot of roof is the danger spot as the fall is around 2 1/2 stories, and when I was a bit younger, not a problem; now 64, a bit hesitant in that section. There was lichen starting to grow on some of the panels, and it was quite stubborn.

I've looked at the panels as pre-paying your bill and hedging the increases. I've never factored in the power being sold, simply the energy I use. Very happy there cleaned for another year!!!!!!

 

[AuSammy]

I've looked at the panels as pre-paying your bill and hedging the increases.

Agree. When we bought our new (to us) place, we had a budget to change/fix/improve a few things. Repaint, floor sanding, lighting, landscaping, appliances etc etc and included the capital cost of covering the roof with solar panels and dual inverters (less the various rebates)

We generate way more than we can use in the day time and been here 2.5yrs and the bill is still in credit even with only 0.04 feed-in tariff and pole and wire fees etc

Being retired now, worrying about what energy costs might do in the future, and whether I should leave the a/c on all day & night on hot/humid days or run the clothes dryer or dishwasher whenever I want is totally off the agenda (at least for now).

 

[AuSammy]

Energy blueprint shake-up as 'market moves faster than the systems plan'

Soaring costs and trenchant criticism from some put the brakes on wind and transmission as the sun shines on big solar and batteries.

www.abc.net.au

 

[exceladdict]

When Bowen's proposed "free"(no such thing, it's cost shifting) electricity between 12:00-15:00 comes in, the benefit of panels will only be before 12 and after 3, but same capital cost. Interesting to see if it affects new household solar uptake.
Maybe just buy batteries and charge them 12 to 3 from the grid.

Very feasible. There is certainly a ceiling to solar usefulness from a grid perspective unless it can be stored. Assuming the battery can be charged for free, is big enough, and can be charged/discharged quickly enough (many are limited by inverter throughput), it could absolutely make sense to buy one to simply load shift.

If people can design them to be portable it could even make sense for a renter to buy one they take with them between houses, even if the house has no solar or is an apartment etc.

Getting households to modify habits to shift usage during the middle of the day is one attempt at no cost to government, and no new capacity is required, at no extra operational cost, just reduce the curtailing of output that is already available. (the cost/benefit plans of some producers is another story) The battery rebate scheme is another piece in the jigsaw puzzle to load shift and reduce reliance on non-renewables, and from all accounts that looks like it is going gangbusters ATM.

Taking up batteries without solar on the roof may actually be welcomed by the goverment (save rebates on panels, accelerate the load shift).

Changing behaviour (especially other people's) is one of the hardest things to do (and somewhat infeasible considering many people work during the work day!). Thus why batteries and "free lunch" power are so appealing. Subsidises exisiting behaviours rather.

Also why I have tried to focus this app on using people's actual usage patterns to calculate battery savings, rather than some optimistic but unachievable dream state.

And the biggest challenge for house owners is trying to predict how these and any future unannounced changes to the playing field and rules of the game will modify the financial pay-back analysis we undertake before committing a significant investment into what is often a 5-10 or even 10-15 year financial benefit. The more they play with the rules, the less predictive we can be regarding any cost benefits or payback period.

I am reluctant to invest significantly in the hope that I get a payback in 5-10 years, when I know the basis for my analysis and cost/benefit predicts today will not be valid in 2, 3, 4, 5 years time.

You can say that again! And while the info is starting to emerge, long term stability and performance is still somewhat unproven. I feel like I am still seeing ads regularly about the recall of one of the very popular batteries from a few years back.

A bit scared about some of these sweetheart deals for 50kwh batteries I'm seeing on ozbargain

 

[RAM]

To clear up some misunderstanding - whilst some wind power is generated between 12pm to 3pm it is very little. Most wind power is generated overnight and provides the energy when 'the sun doesn't shine'.

Do a search on "NEM watch" Reneweconomy to see a graph & table of all generation by type and state, very revealing vs what you see on TV or hear vested interest groups saying on radio.

To see how pricing, demand, supply is going across the National Electricity Market look at the Fed Govt Authority, search aemo dashboard nem .

However, what I have not found (does not mean it does not exist) is a site that (is free) shows how much curtailment there is currently and over time. Ideally by state & type pf power source.

 

[AuSammy]

Free power as wind farms grind to a halt. What’s happening?

Mountains of clean power are regularly "wasted" as Australia's energy system evolves. But a large amount of battery storage is waiting in the wings, ready to soak it up.

www.abc.net.au

 

[DeKa]

Taking up batteries without solar on the roof may actually be welcomed by the goverment (save rebates on panels, accelerate the load shift).

For now, the battery rebate is only granted if you have solar. I’d like that relaxed as solar is challenging on my roof but I’d happily install a battery down the side of the house.

 

[Quickstatus]

When Bowen's proposed "free"(no such thing, it's cost shifting) electricity between 12:00-15:00 comes in,

Actually the midday electricity wholesale spot prices is very often negative - meaning that the user of electricity gets paid to use it.

You can buy a battery to charge for free but you can't get the Cheaper Home Battery Rebate unless you also get solar.
A standalone battery without rebates is negative NPV currently.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Actually the midday electricity wholesale spot prices is very often negative - meaning that the user of electricity gets paid to use it.

Which is why quite a number of Electivity Plans have free power in the middle of the day.

 

[Quickstatus]

have free power in the middle of the day.

And still make $ off the free retail electricity

 

[Buzzard]

And still make $ off the free retail electricity

Even when they buy electricity (FIT) it can be on sold for 500% or more. I don't know of any other business that can have such a markup.

 

[Flashback]

Interesting observation.

Recent stats I've seen show we have the potential to generate a lot more power than we are currently feeding the network (commercial windfarms and solar farms are being curtailed/prevented from supplying in the middle of the day) and some coal fired stations are implementing technology to reduce their output for half the day. It seems the solar panel rebate has been much more than enthusiastically taken up than anticipated and its sort of creating a problem. There is so much capacity available in daylight hours, there are no more new wind projects being implemented in 2026. Also there are allegedly 300,000 more household solar systems projected to being installed in 2026.

The big gap we have in transition away from non-renewables (which is becoming urgent as several coal power stations are coming to end of life and not economically viable) is load shifting / storage for non-daylight hours.

Getting households to modify habits to shift usage during the middle of the day is one attempt at no cost to government, and no new capacity is required, at no extra operational cost, just reduce the curtailing of output that is already available. (the cost/benefit plans of some producers is another story) The battery rebate scheme is another piece in the jigsaw puzzle to load shift and reduce reliance on non-renewables, and from all accounts that looks like it is going gangbusters ATM.

Taking up batteries without solar on the roof may actually be welcomed by the goverment (save rebates on panels, accelerate the load shift).

You should see the amount of money the UK is shelling out to wind farm owners to switch them off as they're not needed.......... our power bills would be far lower if such things weren't happening.

I just opened AFF as I'm sculling a beer after spending the Melbourne morning/afternoon cleaning the 40 panels on the roof! It's one thing to pencil in that they do have to be cleaned when you put them in. One area with about 1 foot of roof is the danger spot as the fall is around 2 1/2 stories, and when I was a bit younger, not a problem; now 64, a bit hesitant in that section. There was lichen starting to grow on some of the panels, and it was quite stubborn.

I've looked at the panels as pre-paying your bill and hedging the increases. I've never factored in the power being sold, simply the energy I use. Very happy there cleaned for another year!!!!!!

My cousin's place in Palm Springs is really bad in this regard, they see a major change in output by cleaning monthly (or sometimes even shorter periods) due to the environmental conditions. Then there's a site in Madagascar I was doing some work on, which had daily cleaning.......... but labour is cheap there.