Shifting Classes.

[ejb_nz]

Hi all,

I was thinking the other day about different classes on board and how things change. 1st class was stopped Domestically when J became popular. Now F is almost gone Internationally yet we are left with three classes.

So I was thinking, did airlines make J too good so F was irrelevent?
Is J the new F, and if it is is Y+ the new J?

We are going to be left with three classes so why not call them Economy/Business and First?

What are other peoples thoughts about this?

I have a long drive to work everyday so I get to think a lot.

ejb

 

[11sjw]

I guess it's the evolutionary result of the airline one-upmanship (combined with improving technologies) that has seen the products develop like this.

For example the best First Class cabins are those with suites and showers. Who would've thought that would be the case 10 years ago?

Look at * Class on Jet*, isn't that what J used to be?

I think that whilst there are people not quite wealthy enough to own their own jet there will be a market for first class. At the other end of the scale there's people that treat the journey as a big part of the holiday and don't mind the extra for Y+ but can't afford J.

I believe we'll see the 4 classes for a while. Perhaps QF will emulate SQ and go with some "All J" flights.

 

[Dave Noble]

That 1st class is disappearing on some airlines does not mean that it is disappearing on all.

If airlines that are reducing, such as Qantas, rebranded then there would be very unimpressed passengers on multi carrier fares who , if booking business, ended up with that which is Premium Economy and those expecting 1st receiving a fairly poor business class

 

[harvyk]

I expect what will happen is J will become the new F and Y+ will become the new J...
Then over time I expect the J will be rebadged to F class, and Y+ will be rebadged to J...

I don't see it as something which will have short term, however the name "First Class" has a whole lot of marketing potential.

So to answer your question, I think right now we are in a "reboot" phase, where the one-upmanship of the airlines is being scaled back without annoying to many pax...

Just look at the offerings of int J 20 years ago to see how far J has come...

 

[docjames]

So I was thinking, did airlines make J too good so F was irrelevent?

Short answer yes.


However the price vs product is what matters, not what it's called.

 

[Dave Noble]

I expect what will happen is J will become the new F and Y+ will become the new J...
Then over time I expect the J will be rebadged to F class, and Y+ will be rebadged to J...

I don't see it as something which will have short term, however the name "First Class" has a whole lot of marketing potential.

This seems too blinkered on a few airlines. There are plenty out there offering 1st/Business/Economy only and business on the 4 cabins where I have seen it is nowhere near a 1st class offering and wouldn't justify being priced as such

 

[markis10]

When it comes to the list of Australian Inventions its often overlooked that J was one of ours, first introduced in 1979 by QF, Ansett's answer was the golden wing lounge on the 16th Feb 82 which predates the AA/QF lounges I think, and later a J cabin in July 89 in conjuction with F, with the F cabin gone on the 2nd April 97 (wonder why they chose that date ) .

 

[JohnK]

We are going to be left with three classes so why not call them Economy/Business and First?

One explanation could be companies changing policies not allowing business class and first class travel but will allow economy and premium economy travel.

Another explanation could be that people cannot afford the current business class airfares but premium economy airfares suit them.

Personally I prefer Economy, Business and First Class but these days there are so many airlines offering different products in each of those classes that it is hard to make comparisons and one is easily fooled into thinking they have purchased a premium product.

eg If airline X puts current Qantas domestic Dreamtime/Millenium seats into long haul aircraft and calls it business class would this be an accurate description?

 

[medhead]

eg If airline X puts current Qantas domestic Dreamtime/Millenium seats into long haul aircraft and calls it business class would this be an accurate description?

That depends. I think that the term Jetstar's business class is fair enough because it is their version of business class. Technically it is a true description. Of course, that doesn't mean that people might not be disappointed if they don't research the product. Then again if people don't research the product they might not know any better.
If jetstar just called it business class without the qualifier. That would be another matter entirely.

 

[harvyk]

This seems too blinkered on a few airlines. There are plenty out there offering 1st/Business/Economy only and business on the 4 cabins where I have seen it is nowhere near a 1st class offering and wouldn't justify being priced as such

I know there are still airlines with F / J / Y offerings only, but I am talking long term here...

J right now is not at F quality, however if there was no such thing as F anymore, and it had been say 15 or 20 years since the last time you travelled in a true F product, and they rebranded J as F without actually making a price change, would you notice? Or would you simply say "F used to be better" in the same vein that we now say that flying 20 years ago before bogan buses existed was better.

 

[Dave Noble]

I know there are still airlines with F / J / Y offerings only, but I am talking long term here...

J right now is not at F quality, however if there was no such thing as F anymore, and it had been say 15 or 20 years since the last time you travelled in a true F product, and they rebranded J as F without actually making a price change, would you notice? Or would you simply say "F used to be better" in the same vein that we now say that flying 20 years ago before bogan buses existed was better.

In the long term , i think that there are some airlines that will maintain a 1st class offering. there is quite a difference between 1st and business. All that will happen, imo, is that those purchasing 1st class tickets will migrate to those airlines maintaining the product

 

[NYCguy]

In the long term , i think that there are some airlines that will maintain a 1st class offering. there is quite a difference between 1st and business. All that will happen, imo, is that those purchasing 1st class tickets will migrate to those airlines maintaining the product

I concur. Some passengers find business class lacks privacy and the "personal" service that one finds in first, despite the 180 degree recline, the pajamas, and the tablecloth.

 

[Dave Noble]

I concur. Some passengers find business class lacks privacy and the "personal" service that one finds in first, despite the 180 degree recline, the pajamas, and the tablecloth.

Indeedy; it is much nicer on a flight with 8 suites with 2 or 3 cabin crew serving, than in a business cabin with 80 seats; that both may have horizontal beds does not make them that similar to travel in. I still do not get the fascination with pyjamas though

 

[serfty]

... I still do not get the fascination with pyjamas though

For me they facilitate travel under a Carry-on only philosophy.

 

[simongr]

I think one of the key differences between J and Y+ is the leg room. This applies to *class as well.

There is no way that the BA Y+ legroom could be called even close to business.

I think you need to compare say the old J on AA where you got what we would now class as a Y+ style seat but you got massive leg room. I was happy enough in those seats for a few medium length flights even though they were not lie flat beds.