Second a/port for SYD news again.

[Isochronous]

Australian airports are a disgrace. One need only look at SIN and HKG to see what a difference a quality airport can make.

We should just bite the bullet and build Badgery's Creek in Sydney. I also agree on rebuilding MEL - it is a deadset joke. We don't even have any competition in duty free goods at MEL!

 

[dajop]

Australian airports are a disgrace. One need only look at SIN and HKG to see what a difference a quality airport can make.

We should just bite the bullet and build Badgery's Creek in Sydney. I also agree on rebuilding MEL - it is a deadset joke. We don't even have any competition in duty free goods at MEL!

Get a grip on reality for a second. Rebuilt MEL? THey've just expanded international, the connection thing works smoothly, what on earth does competition in duty free have to do with rebuilding the airport? Airport operators I am sure charge handsomely for the monopoly to operate DF outlets. At SIN (not sure about HKG) you will also find that in the "traditional" DF stuff - alcohol, perfumes and tobacco - there is also no competition (within the airport) - the competition is really between airports (yes with MEL, SYD, HKG, BKK, KUL etc ...).

Australia's airports are fit for purpose. Even SYD would be OK if they just build a SIN/KUL/HKG style people mover driverless trains that ran every few minutes between INTL and domestic.

The airports are basically end of the line airports (other than for domestic transfers) that are not competing with other nearby airports (in other countries) for hub traffic. SIN airport, economically is extremely important to the city-states economy, and not just as infrastructure to support the SIN economy, but as an income generator in its own right. Similarly the geographical location of KUL, BKK, HKG (and now DXB and AUH) all see them competing with each other and SIN for important and valuable connecting traffic. So to expect SYD or MEL to be anything like those - forget it - Also our airports also don't come with a sense of national pride that those in the more developing countries do.

If you want to see how painful airports can be, I'm sure there's a few examples in the US.

 

[anat0l]

Also our airports also don't come with a sense of national pride that those in the more developing countries do.

That would be awfully nice to have.

If you want to see how painful airports can be, I'm sure there's a few examples in the US.

Oh I'm sure there are. That is no excuse for our own, however.

 

[Dee Thom]

What do you all think about these alternatives/suggestions/rationales?

Big Frogs in little puddles laying down the law !!!!!

A lot of Chicken Littles' !!!!

Are some people really that dumb !!!!!

Probably a combination of all three.............

Cheers Dee

 

[notzac]

Off-topic, but I found AMS a joy to find my way around - everything is laid out logically, signage is excellent and being able to walk directly from arrivals in to the train station (with v regular trains headed toward the city at a reasonable price) is wonderful.

I'm not sure whether I like gate-based security clearance or not though.

 

[kamchatsky]

Agree with AMS. Have to say it is one of the better airports in Europe.

They should get rid of curfew in SYD. This automatically expands the capacity of SYD. Lots of flights will leave at like 12am and arrive in Asia early morning.

Of course, too many people will whinge at such proposal :shock:

 

[dajop]

Lots of flights will leave at like 12am and arrive in Asia early morning.

Yes at MEL there are currently 11 carriers operating out MEL around midnight ... Emirates (x2), Qantas, Singapore, Thai, Malaysian, Air Asia, Viva Macau, Etihad, Qatar, Philippines, Air Pacific. (some of these are not daily, but most are).

 

[Isochronous]

Get a grip on reality for a second. Rebuilt MEL? THey've just expanded international, the connection thing works smoothly, what on earth does competition in duty free have to do with rebuilding the airport? Airport operators I am sure charge handsomely for the monopoly to operate DF outlets. At SIN (not sure about HKG) you will also find that in the "traditional" DF stuff - alcohol, perfumes and tobacco - there is also no competition (within the airport) - the competition is really between airports (yes with MEL, SYD, HKG, BKK, KUL etc ...).

Australia's airports are fit for purpose. Even SYD would be OK if they just build a SIN/KUL/HKG style people mover driverless trains that ran every few minutes between INTL and domestic.

The airports are basically end of the line airports (other than for domestic transfers) that are not competing with other nearby airports (in other countries) for hub traffic. SIN airport, economically is extremely important to the city-states economy, and not just as infrastructure to support the SIN economy, but as an income generator in its own right. Similarly the geographical location of KUL, BKK, HKG (and now DXB and AUH) all see them competing with each other and SIN for important and valuable connecting traffic. So to expect SYD or MEL to be anything like those - forget it - Also our airports also don't come with a sense of national pride that those in the more developing countries do.

If you want to see how painful airports can be, I'm sure there's a few examples in the US.

Variety would be a better word.

 

[JohnK]

And I still Badgery's Creek is a good option for a second airport if indeed Sydney needs a second airport. Perhaps provide some better infrastructure to get to/from the current airport.

Must have been listening to you-got rid of the premier.They really do have a death wish.

Never did like internal politics within political parties. I voted for a premier not the unsuitable puppets they think will win them the next election.

And now my mate gRudd wants to shove a curfew on BNE, sheeeeee !

A curfew in Brisbane? You mean they are actually proposing having some flights take off after 8pm? Can't be possible as the airtrain only runs till 8pm....

They should get rid of curfew in SYD. This automatically expands the capacity of SYD. Lots of flights will leave at like 12am and arrive in Asia early morning.

Of course, too many people will whinge at such proposal :shock:

It is not a whinge. My parents bought a house, and we bought some investment properties that were not under a flight path but they are now. You cannot just dismiss that as tough luck.

I would like to see the curfew at SYD airport lifted with the proviso that all the flight paths from 11:00pm-6:00am are switched back to going over Kiribilli, Mosman, Manly, Dee Why, Chatswood, Pymble, Beecroft, Pennat Hills, St Ives etc and they also have their fair share of flight paths during the day. After all these are the people that use the airport the most.

 

[ejb]

...
I would like to see the curfew at SYD airport lifted with the proviso that all the flight paths from 11:00pm-6:00am are switched back to going over Kiribilli, Mosman, Manly, Dee Why, Chatswood, Pymble, Beecroft, Pennat Hills, St Ives etc and they also have their fair share of flight paths during the day. After all these are the people that use the airport the most.

John,

Unless you bought the houses 75+ years ago you need to live with the airport noise regardless of curfews.

The airport was there, with everything in life you need to look at what may happen in the future and certainly anyone buying near an airport must allow for expansion and increased noise.

Can you imagine a curfew on the Harbour Bridge because people living near it decided to lobby against the noise created, or roads being closed at 11pm to prevent noise, both as silly as a curfew on Australia's largest airport.

Just to clarify I live in Rosebery NSW which is right under the flight path and only about 4 kms from the runway.

ejb

 

[JohnK]

Unless you bought the houses 75+ years ago you need to live with the airport noise regardless of curfews.

The airport was there, with everything in life you need to look at what may happen in the future and certainly anyone buying near an airport must allow for expansion and increased noise.

Well if that is the case then I do not want to see the curfew lifted. We bought 35+ years ago and did not have the first flight path over our house until the Howard government came into power but that is another story.

Build at Badgery's Creek or out the back of woop woop. Another solution would be to shift some of the international flights to airports in other capital cities and provide feeder services. In the past I did not have an issue going to Perth and/Brisbane to pick up more conveniently timed QF flights to Asia.

 

[wandering_fred]

I won't get into the issue of departures, but in this era I do not believe that arrivals into an airport should have a curfew......

I would however support a requirement that all transportation within an airport (as in the three letter airport code is same) be provided free by the airport operating authority...... That is domestic - international (and vv) free transfers are required by law at PER SYD and BNE. The existence of a covered/enclosed walkway of course being acceptable (MEL ADL DRW)

Fred

 

[ejb]

...Build at Badgery's Creek or out the back of woop woop. Another solution would be to shift some of the international flights to airports in other capital cities and provide feeder services. In the past I did not have an issue going to Perth and/Brisbane to pick up more conveniently timed QF flights to Asia.

The people of Badgery's creek and the surrounding areas purchased their houses in a semi rural area with no incling of airport noise but they are now meant to put up with it while the people who purchased near the airport are given less noise.............fair? I think not.

I am all for limiting international flights to a couple of airports with feeder services from there, perhaps Gold Coast and Perth but people will still complain as they will have to connect to get to Mel/Syd/Ade etc. However when flying to the US most people connect through 1 of 5 or 6 main airports (I think) so we may just have to get used to it.

ejb

 

[drron]

The people of Badgery's creek and the surrounding areas purchased their houses in a semi rural area with no incling of airport noise but they are now meant to put up with it while the people who purchased near the airport are given less noise.............fair? I think not.

I am all for limiting international flights to a couple of airports with feeder services from there, perhaps Gold Coast and Perth but people will still complain as they will have to connect to get to Mel/Syd/Ade etc. However when flying to the US most people connect through 1 of 5 or 6 main airports (I think) so we may just have to get used to it.

ejb

The land at badgery's Creek was assembled by the Federal government ~ 1984.There was a great deal of publicity about the second airport.Anyone building or buying there since has no case.As the great Paul K says-
"Badgerys Creek is a far politically easier site to realise as an airport than was the third runway at Mascot. Residential and municipal objections to it can only arise from subdivisions built after the site was bought and in the knowledge that the Commonwealth had planned the site for Sydney's second airport. And as such, should be seen for what they are: special pleading."

 

[ejb]

The land at badgery's Creek was assembled by the Federal government ~ 1984.There was a great deal of publicity about the second airport.Anyone building or buying there since has no case.As the great Paul K says-
"Badgerys Creek is a far politically easier site to realise as an airport than was the third runway at Mascot. Residential and municipal objections to it can only arise from subdivisions built after the site was bought and in the knowledge that the Commonwealth had planned the site for Sydney's second airport. And as such, should be seen for what they are: special pleading."

I lot of people would have bought before 1984, not many people purchased near Mascot before the airport was planned.

Also it is not only the immediate area but the surrounding suburbs that will be affected, and again I am not in them I already live near the airport and love it.

ejb

 

[medhead]

I would however support a requirement that all transportation within an airport (as in the three letter airport code is same) be provided free by the airport operating authority...... That is domestic - international (and vv) free transfers are required by law at PER SYD and BNE. The existence of a covered/enclosed walkway of course being acceptable (MEL ADL DRW)

Fred

ADL domestic and INT are current the same building.

And I'm fairly certain there was no covered walk way when they where separate buildings.

To even get into the SYD airport debate Well I don't see the problem MAscot has been there a long time. no doubt land near the airport was cheap 35 years ago unlike rosebay or double bay or where ever. Buy double glazing with the money saved.

As for other suburbs using the airport the most - what besides weekly flights to BNE

 

[JohnK]

As for other suburbs using the airport the most - what besides weekly flights to BNE

Much more than just weekly flights (think daily flights) and they get to do it all in business class not cattle class.

Seriously which areas in SYD would have the highest proportion of people flights per day and do not have their fair share of the flight paths?

 

[straitman]

Never did like internal politics within political parties. I voted for a premier not the unsuitable puppets they think will win them the next election.

A curfew in Brisbane? You mean they are actually proposing having some flights take off after 8pm? Can't be possible as the airtrain only runs till 8pm....

Remember 8pm Brisbane time is 9pm elsewhere so not quite so bad. :shock:

It is not a whinge. My parents bought a house, and we bought some investment properties that were not under a flight path but they are now. You cannot just dismiss that as tough luck.

We will have to agree to disagree here. The runways have always been there so the potential was always that they would actually use the flight paths and now they do. I have actually lived on several airfields so I do have a personal understanding of what people are saying.

I would like to see the curfew at SYD airport lifted with the proviso that all the flight paths from 11:00pm-6:00am are switched back to going over Kiribilli, Mosman, Manly, Dee Why, Chatswood, Pymble, Beecroft, Pennat Hills, St Ives etc and they also have their fair share of flight paths during the day. After all these are the people that use the airport the most.

At the risk of offending some more people I will not even comment on this one :!:

 

[drron]

I lot of people would have bought before 1984, not many people purchased near Mascot before the airport was planned.

Also it is not only the immediate area but the surrounding suburbs that will be affected, and again I am not in them I already live near the airport and love it.

ejb

The report into Badgery's Creek in 1985 found 5327 people living within 5KM of the proposed airport and a further 18,389 living 5-10km from it.So i disagee that a lot of people bought in there before the airport was proposed.
I grew up under the SYD flight paths before the curfew was introduced into 1963.In the early 70s I lived in Stanmore-could clearly see people in the passing planes-then Annandale so i do understand aircraft noise.
A little known fact.In 1952 SYD was busier than Heathrow.Was said to be the busiest airport outside of the USA.

 

[Dee Thom]

A curfew in Brisbane? You mean they are actually proposing having some flights take off after 8pm? Can't be possible as the airtrain only runs till 8pm....

Touche'

Cheers Dee