SC earn on AA domestic "First"

[Jack_OC]

Hi all, I seem to remember reading something a while back saying that First fares on two-class AA domestic flights will now only earn at the Business rate - is that correct?

Reason I ask is I'm currently in the process of arranging a trip to the US. I basically have two options:
1. Book the whole trip with Qantas. I'm flying in J, and I can get a multi-city itinerary with Qantas covering all flights (domestic legs are QF codeshares operated by AA), but for one of the domestic segments (LAX-DFW) it's only offering Y. I can live with Y on that flight, but as usual the unavailability of J on a particular sector doesn't reduce the total price, so that's a bit annoying (i.e. if I choose a different option at a different time when J is available, the total price is exactly the same).

2. Book the MEL-USA and back segments with Qantas, and book the domestic sectors separately. If I do this, I can get exactly the same domestic flights with AA, but in First as they call it (note they are all two-class flights, so First really means Business). The total cost of doing it this way is about $250 more than booking everything with QF. I decided to check what difference it makes to SC earn, and according to the QFF calculator, my LAX-DFW flight with AA in First would earn 90 SCs, compared to just 15 SCs on the QF Economy fare as part of the multi-city itinerary, and 60 SCs if I booked Business with QF (which as I said is the same thing as First).

Can this be correct?

 

[serfty]

AA "First" on domestic 2 class flights books into Business fare buckets, so LAX-DFW on AA earns 60 SC's.

Frequent Flyer - Flying Qantas and Partner Airlines - Flying with Qantas & Jetstar - Earning Qantas Points

Frequent Flyer - Flying Qantas and Partner Airlines - Flying with Qantas & Jetstar - Earning Qantas Points

 

[Jack_OC]

AA "First" on domestic 2 class flights books into Business fare buckets, so LAX-DFW on AA earns 60 SC's.

Frequent Flyer - Flying Qantas and Partner Airlines - Flying with Qantas & Jetstar - Earning Qantas Points

Frequent Flyer - Flying Qantas and Partner Airlines - Flying with Qantas & Jetstar - Earning Qantas Points

Thanks - that's what I thought!

Completely unclear from the QFF Points and Status Credits Calculator though. Even on the link you provided, which does actually clarify the situation, it states "See our points calculator for the easiest way to find out how many Qantas Points you'll earn". And the same message appears on various pages of the QFF website. Well, no, the points calculator is not the "easiest way", given that you have to somehow know that your flight in "First" is not treated as "First" by QF, and therefore you have to enter "Business" in the calculator to get the correct answer, even though you have booked "First"!

I have to say, I'm struggling to see why "First" is even offered as an option on routes where First (as defined by QF) does not exist. Anyway, no harm done in my case, but I'd be surprised if this doesn't catch a fair few people out.

 

[serfty]

AA first on two class flights was actually in "First" fare buckets, A & F. They changed this to Business fare buckets J D I and R for two class flights about 12 months ago.

 

[Jack_OC]

AA first on two class flights was actually in "First" fare buckets, A & F. They changed this to Business fare buckets J D I and R for two class flights about 12 months ago.

Yes I realise that - but they still haven't updated the calculator to take account of this change. When I used the calculator this morning, straight away I realised something was not right, as I remembered reading about this change. My point is that people shouldn't have to (a) read articles about changes in FFP rules and (b) remember what the new rules are, in order to be able to use QFF's calculator properly.

The continued website shoddiness from both QF and VA really is tiresome.

 

[serfty]

I rarely use the 'calculator' ...

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Yes I realise that - but they still haven't updated the calculator to take account of this change. When I used the calculator this morning, straight away I realised something was not right, as I remembered reading about this change. My point is that people shouldn't have to (a) read articles about changes in FFP rules and (b) remember what the new rules are, in order to be able to use QFF's calculator properly.

The continued website shoddiness from both QF and VA really is tiresome.

I agree and what I say next isn't a justification of QF at all....

The text on the calculator webpage states 'Use our handy earn calculator to see how many Qantas Points and Status Credits you could earn on Qantas'. 'Could' being the operative word and so doesn't guarantee you'll receive those SCs. Yes QF should fix the calculator but bear in mind they don't like you flying on and earning SCs with other carriers anyway so I can't imagine a fix is on the priority list.

 

[Captain Halliday]

I disagree with this...

...but in First as they call it (note they are all two-class flights, so First really means Business).

On AA it’s premium economy at best IMHO. You won’t get a meal, seat recline is very poor and priority baggage is rarely given priority.

YMMV

 

[Himeno]

AA changed the fare codes for their 2 cabin domestic "First" to Business class fare codes in Feb last year as part of a wider code change in order to free up fare codes for use for international premium economy.
Though, even before the change, booking "First" on those AA flights only booked the F fare codes if you booked under the AA number. The QF codeshares always booked into J codes.

 

[Jack_OC]

I agree and what I say next isn't a justification of QF at all.....

The text on the calculator webpage states 'Use our handy earn calculator to see how many Qantas Points and Status Credits you could earn on Qantas'. 'Could' being the operative word and so doesn't guarantee you'll receive those SCs. .

But as I posted above, on other pages they say "See our points calculator for the easiest way to find out how many Qantas Points you'll earn". No "could" about it there!

Yes QF should fix the calculator but bear in mind they don't like you flying on and earning SCs with other carriers anyway so I can't imagine a fix is on the priority list.

I agree with the first part of what you say, but the irony is that the flaw in their calculator actually encourages people to book with AA rather than QF - as it suggests you would earn more SCs by booking with AA (and that used to actually be the case, as Himeno pointed out). At the end of the day, maybe it's just too hard for QF to have an accurate calculator, but in that case they should just get rid of it, as a misleading calculator is worse than nothing.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The calculator would need to get a whole lot more intelligent to be 100% accurate. At the moment it's a guide. Some routes may offer true F with three class aircraft, others may only offer business and economy now, but could theoretically change in the future. The calculator would need some way of matching flight number with airline and flight date to restrict cabin classes in order to be 100% accurate.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

At the end of the day, maybe it's just too hard for QF to have an accurate calculator, but in that case they should just get rid of it, as a misleading calculator is worse than nothing.

It's correct most of the time. I prefer that to trawling the charts, which have become as complex as Australian Taxation Law these days

 

[serfty]

I disagree with this...

On AA it’s premium economy at best IMHO. You won’t get a meal, seat recline is very poor and priority baggage is rarely given priority.

YMMV

At least you get Business SC's based on the route or distance.

You do get a meal on flights over 2.5 hours and in some shorter flights in "competitive markets" that fly/depart during "traditional" meal periods.

Also, generally the Liquor service from the FA's is far more liberal than we may experience on Oz (although I'd advise carefully considering any wine ).

 

[moa999]

And let's not mention the mental gymnastics required using that calculator with a MH booking.

 

[oz_mark]

It's correct most of the time. I prefer that to trawling the charts, which have become as complex as Australian Taxation Law these days

The problem is you need to use the tables to find out what class Qantas Frequent Flyer think things are. Only when you know that AA First may be Business, and MH Business may be Economy, can you use the calculator.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

The problem is you need to use the tables to find out what class Qantas Frequent Flyer think things are. Only when you know that AA First may be Business, and MH Business may be Economy, can you use the calculator.

And that page is buried. I’ve had to bookmark it as it’s so hard to find.

 

[serfty]

And that page is buried. I’ve had to bookmark it as it’s so hard to find.

I've long had bookmarked/favorites both the links in post 2 ...

 

[ozbeachbabe]

At least you get Business SC's based on the route or distance.

You do get a meal on flights over 2.5 hours and in some shorter flights in "competitive markets" that fly/depart during "traditional" meal periods.

Also, generally the Liquor service from the FA's is far more liberal than we may experience on Oz (although I'd advise carefully considering any wine ).

Hell yeah. I'd almost go as far to say that it's almost like AA FA's haven't even heard of RSA.

Recently flew HAV/xMIA/xDFW/HNL with the latter 2 flights on a 763 in the 1x2x1 full flat config which is handy when you didn't sleep in a hotel the previous night and your bed was a couch in the Avianca lounge at MIA.

 

[drron]

I disagree with this...



On AA it’s premium economy at best IMHO. You won’t get a meal, seat recline is very poor and priority baggage is rarely given priority.

YMMV

Flew AA F domestic today.Got a meal,recline much the same as QF J domestic,priority baggage worked(unlike QF) and the FA was pleasant and hard working.Never stopped.Again unlike most QF flights.

 

[SYD]

Arguably, the "QF calculator" fault is with AA still marketing 2 class service as "First" but actually selling you a Business ticket. My next booking AA LAX-DFW-MIA-SJU is First (I) / First (I) / Business (I)... [Short haul international has always been sold as J for the same seat/service}

The QF calculator needs to be flexible because there are still three class sectors (besides transcon) where "First" books into A/F.

Regarding comfort, my LAX-DFW sector is on a 789. So can't complain. LAX-MIA can be 777 (3 class) with full flat in both F/J. But caution booking AA on transcon after Simpler & Fairer MkII halved many AA SCs on transcon.

Noting the last point, unless you really look into the correct fares/earn/price, booking QF codes when available is probably a safer option (previously you'd go for AA # to get the proper First SCs).

Booking with AA, there is still reasonable value to be had. The trip above was US$350 for 180 SCs (used to be 240). But AA non-stop LAX-MIA then SJU for the same price is only 110 SCs! Put a QF code on the first sector and you're back to ~160 SCs (depending on QF J fare)....