Research Poll: Public Support for a Nuclear Powered Aeroplane

[dawson300]

Hi,

My name is Dawson S and I'm a student from Australia. I'm currently completing a research project into the modern-day feasibility of a nuclear-powered aeroplane (as first suggested in the Cold War). I am to deliver this project in December at the Stockholm International Youth Science Seminars where I will attend the Nobel Prize ceremonies.

I am interested in poll results from different community groups and as such I have approached this forum. Please vote above and comment below should you have any strong opinions. I only require opinions; I already have all of the scientific data I require for my project (this is one of the last sections I am to complete).

Voting is to be done with any information you can muster, not information I provide.

Thank-you for your help

 

[dot]

I am presuming that any future generation nuclear power would be much smaller and lighter than was toyed with in the sixties. I am also assuming that it could be made much safer in the case of an aircraft accident and would not therefore require a US Marines unit following around in a chase plane. That said, I would be prepared to support such a power system for an aircraft provided the appropriate safety measures are in place.

I suspect that the general public would not be so accepting. I would be really surprised if any manufacturer would be able to get past the public opinion hurdle in proposing nuclear as a power source that would see a design get off paper (so to speak - but these days, I guess you would say out of the computer ).

 

[Soundguy]

For sure, I'd buy a nuclear powered car if I could get one (and if it was affordable of course).

Hey Dawson, regarding your question you might want to do some research on the 'fossil fuels' and 'dwindling' parts, I would question both of these as possibly being assumptions. I'm surprised (or maybe not actually) that they still unquestioningly teach the 'fossil fuel' theory when for decades now this has been known to be an unlikely source of oil and eg much of todays oil is sourced far deeper than any fossils are known known to be. Most oil has an organic component but it seems to be not yet proven if this is (fossil) contaminant or source....

Here is a start, also check the research of astrophysicist Thomas Gold.

 

[straitman]

dawson300,

Apologies as I have just skewed your poll. I voted not likely instead of probably. :evil:

Time I went to bed.

 

[Will]

I agree that you should rephrase your question.
You want to know if people would fly on a nuclear powered plane. "Dwindling fossil fuels" or whatever is irrelevant and just confuses the issue.

 

[mainly tailfirst]

Interesting idea on the nuclear options for air transit. Clearly such a craft would look a bit different to ones flying today.
The airliners.net crew discussed this before Nuclear Power On Commercial A/c — Tech Ops Forum | Airliners.net
If you are brave*, you might to suggest the same thing to the tech_ops forum on airliners.net and see if anyone has new ideas.

mt

*the a.net crowd can be a bit blunt at times.

 

[medhead]

I would almost certainly fly on a nulcear powered aircraft, without any regard to dwindling oil supplies. In saying this my assumption is that it is technically feasible and I assume that you have determined that via your other research. Edit: Well, my assupmtion is if such an aircraft existed. In that case I'd use it.


OT:
On the thread posted on airlines.net - it's pretty weak. There is some good general information but there is also some pretty shocking disinformation. for example, the massively thick windows needed for sheilding. Radiation can not bend around corners, shielding is only need in a direct line between the reactor and the crew. The natural layout of an aircraft tells me this isn't the windows.

That thread also finishes by claiming that there is a 50% chance of dying from cancer if living near Chernobyl. There are so many things wrong with this number. Does it mean 50% of all people will get cancer and die? 50% of people getting cancer with die from the cancer?

This claim can be measured against 2004 cancer statistics. In the US (assume this is approx the same as Australia) less than 1% of people (male or female) of a each race die from cancer every year. Adding up for all races and both genders the total fatality rate is approximately less than 5%. The radiation levels around Chernobyl have not increased enough to explain an increase in fatality rate from 5% to 50%.

It could also be measured against a more general statistic that 33% of men and 25% of women will be directly effected by cancer during their life. Compared to the fatality rates that shows there is a pretty good chance of surviving cancer.

 

[oz_mark]

Even if I assume that it is a technically feasible thing to do, there will still be a significant public opinion issue to get around, not only with the plane itself, but the ground handling of the power source for said aircraft.

 

[NM]

Would I fly on one? Yes.

Do I think I will ever get the opportunity? No.

Concorde could not overcome the noise issues for permission to operate from many airports. I cannot imagine a time in my lifetime when enough airports will be prepared to allow operation of a commercial airline powered by a nuclear reactor. Just look at the protests whenever a nuclear powered ship tries to enter certain ports. Politics and perception is what will stop it from being a commercial reality.

Now if I could just find the time to perfect my Gravitation Propulsion System (unfortunately someone else stole the acronym for my invention) the problem would be solved.

 

[Soundguy]

That thread also finishes by claiming that there is a 50% chance of dying from cancer if living near Chernobyl.

Yeah, what a massive media beat-up Chernobyl has been! Most folk think thousands perished horrible deaths and the place is left a barren wilderness.

OK a little OT but fact is the plants there are doing just great, and as for the deaths I quote from the International team of more than 100 scientists who studied the situation in detail:

As of mid-2005, however, fewer than 50 deaths had been directly attributed to radiation from the disaster, almost all being highly exposed rescue workers, many who died within months of the accident but others who died as late as 2004.

By and large, however, we have not found profound negative health impacts to the rest of the population in surrounding areas, nor have we found widespread contamination that would continue to pose a substantial threat to human health, within a few exceptional, restricted areas.
​

 

[medhead]

Bearing in mind this is all OT. But I understand there has been quite a number of bad non-radiation related heath impacts from Chernobyl, due to the fear of the radiation exposure and disruption due to be evacuated.

 

[NM]

OK a little OT but fact is the plants there are doing just great, and as for the deaths I quote from the International team of more than 100 scientists who studied the situation in detail:

As of mid-2005, however, fewer than 50 deaths had been directly attributed to radiation from the disaster, almost all being highly exposed rescue workers, many who died within months of the accident but others who died as late as 2004.​

Well I have seen first hand how a family was affected by the radiation leakage at Chernobyl. The father was sent their "as a liquidator of the disaster" (literal translation) and died around 1996. In the time between his radiation exposure and death, he fathered his second son. This young lad suffered his own serious health issues (7 operations to fix "plumbing" problems before the age of 11) which were indirectly linked to Chernobyl through his father's contamination. Thankfully his prognosis for a relatively normal life expectancy is now very good thanks to the intensive medical treatment he was able to receive when their was finding available from the state. But once Ukraine achieved its independence and government funding dried up, his Mother struggled to support him and his older brother after their father's death.

I count it a privilege to have been able to meet this family and stay with them in their home in Kiev on several occasions. They have done it tough since Chernobyl, but have now turned the corner and making the most of their situation.

The number of direct deaths may be lower than most people believe, but the number of people indirectly affected in a major way is significantly higher.​

 

[UP4014]

Although the "source" is radioactive, would not it be a steam powered plane?

The "source" needs to be turned into movement, it cannot happen without a liquid being turned into a gas (using the current technology).

 

[medhead]

Well I have seen first hand how a family was affected by the radiation leakage at Chernobyl. The father was sent their "as a liquidator of the disaster" (literal translation) and died around 1996. In the time between his radiation exposure and death, he fathered his second son. This young lad suffered his own serious health issues (7 operations to fix "plumbing" problems before the age of 11) which were indirectly linked to Chernobyl through his father's contamination. Thankfully his prognosis for a relatively normal life expectancy is now very good thanks to the intensive medical treatment he was able to receive when their was finding available from the state. But once Ukraine achieved its independence and government funding dried up, his Mother struggled to support him and his older brother after their father's death.

I count it a privilege to have been able to meet this family and stay with them in their home in Kiev on several occasions. They have done it tough since Chernobyl, but have now turned the corner and making the most of their situation.

The number of direct deaths may be lower than most people believe, but the number of people indirectly affected in a major way is significantly higher.

What that family have experienced is incredibly hard. It is good to hear that things are finally getting better for them.

I don't want to get into detail in this thread but it is hard to accept some of the things in the story. The suggestion of contamination doesn't ring true and also the supposed indirect link of the child condition with the father's exposure

Not that saying that can take away the terrible suffering.

As I said I'm glad that things are getting better. Is there anyway to help support families affected by the social problems caused by the accident?

 

[NM]

What that family have experienced is incredibly hard. It is good to hear that things are finally getting better for them.

I don't want to get into detail in this thread but it is hard to accept some of the things in the story. The suggestion of contamination doesn't ring true and also the supposed indirect link of the child condition with the father's exposure

Not that saying that can take away the terrible suffering.

As I said I'm glad that things are getting better. Is there anyway to help support families affected by the social problems caused by the accident?

All we have to go on is what we have been told by the family (language barrier is significant) and the charity organisation that originally brought him to Australia. The group was called (again literal translation from the original Russian) "Children Of Chernobyl For Surviving". This organisation (now defunct since all affected children are now adults) was formed to provide opportunities for children who were medically affected by Chernobyl to travel to other countries during the Ukrainian winter to help them with both their physical and emotional recovery. Alexi (pronounced Alosha) turned 12 while he stayed with us for a 5 week period over Christmas in 1998/99. He had not long been released from hospital following his seventh "plumbing" operation.

About 20 children came to Australia with the group at that time. All had been born after the Chernobyl disaster. In order to qualify for support from the group, they had to have recently been through the state hospital system for treatment of a condition that was directly linked to Chernobyl.

It was very interesting visiting Alexi and his mother and brother in Kiev later in 1999 and again twice sine then. One very interesting thing was the military cemetery where his father is buried. The grave are laid our chronologically. There is an obvious point in time when the government money ran out. The graves changed from elaborate headstones (including colour engraved pictures of the person), individual fenced off area with bench seat etc, to a mound with a bare wooded cross. Alxi's father's grave was one of the last of the elaborate, well funded graves.

His home was one of two contrasts. It was obvious that in the past they were reasonably well off. But after his father's death the money was not there to continue the same lifestyle or to maintain anything. For example they had three TVs in the apartment, but each was old. The apartment was decorated with some nice things, but again all were obviously from the "good old days" and nothing new had been added in recent years. When Alexi came to stay with us, be brought a gift from his mother. It was a hand carved wooden ornament. When we visited his home we saw a display cabinet where it was clear this was taken from a set of matching ornaments and there was a space from where "our" ornament was removed.

So I have no medical proof about Alexi's medical issues being related to his father's exposure or just a medical coincidence. I can only go by what we were told through a translator from his mother and the charity group. But I can say that the experience of hosting Alexi for 5 weeks made a huge impact on our family, and being able to take our children over to Kiev to meet Alexi again was something they will not forget in a hurry. Our boys were 5 and 7 at the time Alexi came into our lives and remember it well.

 

[medhead]

All we have to go on is what we have been told by the family (language barrier is significant)

Yes, of course, I totally agree and that is the family's experience and their experience is most important. I certainly didn't mean to detract from their experience. While I might be able to make some "educated" guesses, that cannot improve or change their situation and it makes my education seem quite useless.

Thank you very much for sharing their story and your experience. I think I vaguely remember the visit being mentioned in the news at the time.