QFF program or AAdvantage?

[Dave Noble]

Dave, thanks for taking the time to raise some valid points. I still think my decision in sticking with the QFF program is the right one.


Premium awards is a valid point but really does not interest me in the slightest. I would rather do 2 separate Oneworld RTWs in economy than one in business. My goal would be to be able to one RTW each year but I think realistically I can only earn enough points to do one every 2 years. If I was doing this in business then I would have to wait every 3-4 years, even on AA, and forget about ever been able to do one in first.

My upcoming RTW award with 16 sectors and 5 stopovers booked through QF loosely translates to SYD-ORD-ATH-LHR-FRA-HEL-SYD, if I remove transits and stopovers less than 24 hours, which is still 27009 miles according to GCM and would push me into Zone 8 on AA and therefore still requires 140,000 AA miles.


Another valid point but if I understand the rules correctly you are still limited to 16 segments.

.

Assuming that the ordering of visited cities was not a critical issue, you could have done ( using an AA award ) SYD-ATH-FRA-LHR-ORD-SYD which would have come in at 24,232 miles and so have been in the lower cost bracket and would be 120k in Y / 150k in J on AA points vs 140k plus fines on QF points. The value of the fuel fines should not be underestimated, especially on a trip with many opportunities for QF to fine you

You are limited to 16 segments on itinerary on both AA and QF awards so no difference there

AA would not be greatly cheaper for an economy award, then again I would rarely want to redeem a longhaul flight in economy

Another thing that I missed on AA awards vs QF awards for business class is the treatment when travelling domestically within the USA. Using QF J awards, any 2 class domestic AA sector will book in economy class whilst using AA points they will be booked into business class. This can have a significant impact on a J OneWorld award.

Dave

 

[Keith009]

Keep in mind that you need at least 2 DONE4s every year to qualify AA EXP. Just ask Simon the pain he is going through. I am in tears just reading the planning....

Actually - it's 1 and a quarter DONE4 to get AA EXP for me. I'm doing mine ex-NRT. After the first DONE4, I'd only need something like NRT-DEL-HKG-MEL to get EXP. And no ANC turnarounds either. Other silly routings notwithstanding...

The reason why I said WP is easier is because a mere difference of a few miles can double or triple the amount of SCs you get. And you get a whole lot more SCs in the premium cabins, whereas it's 1.5Qpts/mile whether you're in full Y/Y+/J/F on AAdvantage.

If you want something REALLY easy (excluding AA PLT by CHAAllenge) - enroll in BAEC in Europe outside Eire and UK. Then buy BAH-DOH-BAH turnarounds in F and you'll get BA Gold/emerald in no time. You might experience problems doing things like MFU though since there are a lot of cryptic rules with BAEC, and you still need 4 BA flights to get Silver, another 4 to get Gold [and 4 to retain].

 

[JohnK]

yeah cool - I understand that, its just that im thinking at my personal situation...I am set to hit AA EXP in July (note: no DONE4's or any thing like that) and I will do that quite quickly and easy with direct trips!

I'm a neebie to this and am just concerned that I am not in the right program, thats all!

You did 2 long haul J flights in May which on QF would have earned 480 SCs. Just remember if travelling J then QF Platinum is very easy to achieve. If you travel to Asia 6 times a year in J then this earns you QF Platinum and then only 5 trips each year in J after that to re-qualify.

If you look at my situation last membership year to achieve QF Platinum, for the first time ever, I only flew 31876 miles. Actually some of these miles were award flights so the actual paid miles I flew was less than that. Not bad considering it was mainly long haul WHY, domestic WHY and some short haul J. And I got the cheapest possible airfares to do it. Even short haul J was I class specials, and domestic WHY was all red e-deals most on sale prices.

With AA I would have earned squat. With QF I now have Platinum....

 

[Keith009]

yeah cool - I understand that, its just that im thinking at my personal situation...I am set to hit AA EXP in July (note: no DONE4's or any thing like that) and I will do that quite quickly and easy with direct trips!

I'm a neebie to this and am just concerned that I am not in the right program, thats all!

If you can get emerald anyway regardless of whether it's WP or EXP - why does it matter how quickly you get it? If you are set for both - AAdvantage is definitely for you because of the much better earn:redemption ratio on ur flying pattern, as pointed out by Dave Noble and others. And don't forget you start getting the 100% bonus on any carrier at the PLT level.

I think it is important to balance both status and redemption, based on personal circumstances.

 

[tscharke]

ah it just clicked...AA is beneficial to qual/requal for lower class fares (i.e. 1.5 qpoint for B,Y..the same as J,F) however QF treats you better the higher you fly....hmmmmm!

cheers all - valuable feedback

 

[JohnK]

Assuming that the ordering of visited cities was not a critical issue, you could have done ( using an AA award ) SYD-ATH-FRA-LHR-ORD-SYD which would have come in at 24,232 miles and so have been in the lower cost bracket and would be 120k in Y / 150k in J on AA points vs 140k plus fines on QF points.

I could have done the itinerary you mention if I had booked it early. I left it to the last minute and I had to be in certain places at certain times so that was the only realistic routing.

The value of the fuel fines should not be underestimated, especially on a trip with many opportunities for QF to fine you

I wonder if my reasoning is correct. My upcoming QF Oneworld RTW award cost 140,000 QFF points and $935 in taxes and surcharges. If I had booked on AA, with careful planning and revised routing as you mention above, it would have cost 120,000 AA miles and ~$300 in taxes and surcharges.

To qualify QF Platinum I flew 20412 paid miles and earned ~51000 QFF points. All of these were as a QF Gold so as a QF Platinum I could have realistically earned ~60000 QFF points. At this rate it would take me 28 months to have enough points for a QF Oneworld RTW and I would need to pay $935 in taxes and surcharges.

Assuming I flew 20412 paid miles as an AA Platinum I would have earned ~40,000 AA miles. Now a lot of my domestic flights and even long haul flights are deep discount economy so realistically I would have earned nothing on AA so I would need to spend more money to get the 40,000 AA miles. I would estimate another $500/year to get airfares valid for AA earning. So after 36 months of my normal flying I would finally have enough for an AA Oneworld RTW award and save $635 in taxes and surcharges that I would have otherwise been charges on QF. But I have also paid $1500 more in airfares in those 36 months to ensure that I had airfares that earn AA miles.

So in summary spend $1500 more in airfares to save $635 in taxes and surcharges and wait an extra 8 months for my RTW award.

AA would not be greatly cheaper for an economy award, then again I would rarely want to redeem a longhaul flight in economy

Sorry do not agree. AA would be more expensive than QF given the circumstances that I have outlines earlier.

 

[simongr]

Keep in mind that you need at least 2 DONE4s every year to qualify AA EXP. Just ask Simon the pain he is going through. I am in tears just reading the planning....

Actually the planning is just me being a points cough and trying be as hard core as possible - for no other reason than ... I can. I am in a great position with work at the moment (boss basically apologised yesterday not asking me to lead the global planning project even though I have one of the higher profile roles in our team already, am accused of never sleeping and have already taken on about 60% more responsibility than required and then basically hinted that he might ask me to do a world tour risk assessment project as he knows I will be bored in March next year )

I have been very frustrated with the AA program because I made a couple of poor decisions - I didnt do the AA challenge on my way to the US in July last year - if I had done that I would comfortably be AA EXP now (based on about 90K miles flown last year) and I didnt do it earlier when I had the chance.

I am annoyed that AA dont recognise premium $ flyers more than they do - - I mean I was payinng twice why tscharke was for fares and he was earning at the same rate as me (qpoints that is) =- hardly seems fair.

AA works I think for two sets of people - people who fly lots and in premium cabins - you maintain OWE status and get bucket loads of points for premium awards (dont forget to factor in that AA dont charge you total distance - just point to point for awards - so you can potentially get more awards as you can route via other places for "free") - eg I am actually hoping for a lack of availability SYD-LAX next year so I can go SYD-HKG-LAX

It also works for people who dont earn a heap of points - thus they dont care about missing out on status but can slowly accrue plenty of points (depending on fare class )

 

[simongr]

Assuming I flew 20412 paid miles as an AA Platinum I would have earned ~40,000 AA miles. Now a lot of my domestic flights and even long haul flights are deep discount economy so realistically I would have earned nothing on AA so I would need to spend more money to get the 40,000 AA miles.

Why 51K points for 20K miles flown? Are you factoring loyalty bonuses? If so you need to factor in (and I know it aint much) the sticker upgrades - basically for every 10,000 miles flown you get 2000 bonus miles.

 

[JohnK]

ah it just clicked...AA is beneficial to qual/requal for lower class fares (i.e. 1.5 qpoint for B,Y..the same as J,F) however QF treats you better the higher you fly....hmmmmm!

No. B and Y class are still very high class airfares.

Try qualifying AA EXP on N, O and Q class airfares. I will even add S and V class airfares in there if you really want. QF Platinum can be achieved comfortably on lower class airfares. AA EXP is very difficult to achieve with lower class airfares.

In almost any situation QF Platinum requires much less effort to achieve than AA EXP.

 

[simongr]

Sorry - john but not or people in the US A

I believe that EXP can be had for US$3000 of less by flying insane qualifying runs - things that make BEHEMOTH and SON OF BEHEMOTH look easy. ANd EXP Then gives you massive benefits in the US - free upgrade to (lets call it ) J on every flight no matter the fare class of your booking.

I am not arguing for the sake of it - I think you make some good points for your circumstances of flying and for your needs from the program.

 

[Keith009]

Actually the planning is just me being a points cough and trying be as hard core as possible - for no other reason than ... I can.

*high five*

The RTW desk AAgent tried to convince me that there are easier ways of doing NRT-DXB than going via SIN and LHR - but of course, what does she know?

Or maybe she was refering to that youtube clip of LHR...:shock:

 

[JohnK]

Why 51K points for 20K miles flown? Are you factoring loyalty bonuses? If so you need to factor in (and I know it aint much) the sticker upgrades - basically for every 10,000 miles flown you get 2000 bonus miles.

Sorry Simon I did take into consideration the loyalty bonus.

So for 20412 flown miles I would have earned ~44,000 AA miles. So it would take 32 months, not 36 months, for an AA Oneworld RTW award. Still much cheaper with QF in my opiniion.

Simon my flying patterns and airfares purchased are normal for the majority of people. In fact the majority of travellers could not care less about FF programs. There are not many that get to travel at the pointy unless they have a high profile job.

This thread was started with me trying to work out whether AAdvantage would be more beneficial to me as a FF program. It is now quite clear, after doing many calculations, that I have made the right decision sticking with QF. I know that this is not for everyone and is not indicative of everyones situation. Some people will be happy with AA, some people will be happy with QF while others will never be happy.

Hopefully someone out there has learnt something useful from this thread. I know I have....

 

[ozmerish]

Try qualifying AA EXP on N, O and Q class airfares. I will even add S and V class airfares in there if you really want. QF Platinum can be achieved comfortably on lower class airfares. AA EXP is very difficult to achieve with lower class airfares.

N class domestic QF fares (typically Red E-Deal) do not earn on AA. I simply credit them to QF and let those flights go to my 4 QF sector count. Even when booking a Red E-Deal, I usually get an O class anyway. Minimum earn is 1000 per sector at EXP (and I think Platinum (QF Gold, OWS))

Since switching over to AA last year, I can say that it works for me and my particular situation. Will be interesting to see if QF will requal my WP status this year (currently 3 sectors credited and 35 SC's).

 

[serfty]

As I posted earlier, 'tis a Huge YMMV!

I depart in a week on a MEL-SYD-HNL-LAX-DFW-BOS-DFW-LAX-HNL-MEL journey that if credited to AA would earn ~18,000 Qpoints. With QF, it earns 860 SC's.

Admittedly the travel is structured to Maximize Qantas SC Earning, but even the direct flights on AA cost about the same as the indirect ones..

 

[Dave Noble]

As I posted earlier, 'tis a Huge YMMV!

I depart in a week on a MEL-SYD-HNL-LAX-DFW-BOS-DFW-LAX-HNL-MEL journey that if credited to AA would earn ~18,000 Qpoints. With QF, it earns 860 SC's.

Admittedly the travel is structured to Maximize Qantas SC Earning, but even the direct flights on AA cost about the same as the indirect ones..

If you were to credit to AA and used AA flight numbers and did a PLT Challenge, you could be able to earn 37,430 miles by ensuring an appropriate booking class . You would also earn 21775 miles towards status if doing it in economy.

To get 860SCs, the trip must be being done in something other than discount economy; if the journey is being done in business class, then the qpoint earning would be around 33,000 .

If using Jetstar StarClass to get SCs, then it would be ineligable for miles on AA, but then again would not likely be chosen if trying to maximise AA earnings.

Obviously there is a disparity when comparing something that has been tailored to maximise earnings on one scheme against what the identical itinerary would earn elsewhere

Dave

 

[serfty]

Flying QF-QF-AA-AA-AA-AA-AA-AA-QF(JQ); V class on QF, P on AA. So only the last flight might not be eligible for AA earning.

As a QF WP, I will earn over 58,000 QFF points for the journey. They are not that important to me (the SCs are); although I am hoping to upgrade on the 763 to HNL for 48K.

 

[garyjohn951]

I have read this thread and as stated believe QF to be better for me as I normally only do one J international trip a year. The rest Disc Y domestic.
My QF year from 1 Aug. So far this year I have done 15 trips at 10SCs each, all N or O and 8 trips at 15SCs each, again N or O. A totol of 290 SCs. The first J back in October was MEL-HKG-SIN-LHR-ASP-MAD-JNB-SYD-MEL. The second J to be done this month is MEL-HKG-HEL-LED-LHR-MEL. All together will give me 1500 SCs. First time I have ever had more than 800 SCs and in fact in past 5 yrs have not reach Gold but as my average over the 5 yrs is approx 700, QF have keep me at Gold. As I have done two J trips in this 12 month period and they are out of my pocket and not work related, I will not be doing one of that size in the next 12 months, more like a point to point one, so expect my SCs to be 450 - 600.
I suppose the question is with the above and the intended future travel would I have been better off with AA ?

 

[Evan]

Do AA comp status for people ? ie ig you don't make Platinum will they let you keep it anyway like what appears to happen on QF a lot.
E

 

[Mal]

I've made my views on AA known before, so I have little to add here.

I'll be retaining QF WP (hopefully) until I reach QF LTG. After that, AA fulltime I think. I'm always looking around for better options, so I could jump ship before then if Qantas degrades their program to an extent where I no longer feel that it benefits me.

Some of my points go to AA at the moment. I have around 31000 points there and that figure keeps growing. However, the bulk of my flights go to Qantas and will remain that way for the foreseeable future.

Be alert and aware, do your own sums and go with the program where you feel YOU will get the best value. Never be afraid to change if something better comes along!

 

[simongr]

Just watch out for those points expiring under the new rules on AA (which are for me a bit of a non-event) if you dont top occasionally.

This thread to me really enforces that you need to very carefully monitor your own personal circumstances and carefully calculate what you want out of your program.

I am putting the finishing touches to my comparison spreadsheet that I use to forecast earning/status so I can compare which program could generate status etc. I am also putting in a "where can you go today?" calculation that will give some rough estimates of the distances/locations that you could potentially based on current and forecast travel.

I reallymust finish that this weekend...