QF119 BNE-AKL last minute swap from 787 to A330

[LondonAussie]

In Europe when flights are overbooked you’ll be asked at check in if you’d be willing to take alternate flights in exchange for €250-€600 compensation depending on distance. These amounts are mandated by the EU regulations so are the same for all airlines.

Some even have it in the app now during OLCI. It lists the options and the amount of compensation you’ll be paid to accept an alternate.

Payment is instant.

 

[Aeryn]

In other words, QF does not value all its passengers, only those whom it thinks are valuable to them.

Far from unique to Qantas, pretty much all airlines have similiar method for deciding who to bump.

A business wants to stay in business. Makes sense they bump the infrequent low revenue traveller who if they lose as customer has less impact to bottom line over the actual frequent flyer who buys tickets more regularly and woukd impact bottom line more if they lose.

How would you propose it be managed instead? Date of booking ? Someone misses out either way. Whilst some J passengers got downgraded, its likely some whY were bumped from flight altogether.

This is why i always check-in as close as possible to when olci opens, waiting tio airport just increases risk of offboarding/downgrade due to irrops or other.

Overselling is more common in US and EU, and whilst they ask for vlunteers by offering compenswtion, if they dont get enough thise who checked in late without an assigned seat are first to be bumped.

 

[transpactraveller]

Im guessing those surprised didnt do OLCI? First thing i do is check my boarding pass following olci to ensure seat has stuck.

When aircraft downgrades happen causing flight to be over booked, waiting to check in at airport just increases chance of being bumped.

Unless aircraft was swapped after check in closed (highly unlikely) any chnage of seat / class should have been aparent at check in. Better to speak with check in staff at that point than take it out on gate staff.

She completed OLCI the night before (around 12 hours prior to departure) and downloaded a boarding pass with 2A.

So the aircraft change must have happened late overnight or on the morning of the flight. After most people would have completed OLCI and already got BPs.

Anyone travelling with hand luggage only could bypass the airport check in desks, so the gate staff could be the first staff they spoke to.

In my friends case it was the lounge staff that told her of the change and printed her a new BP.

The app didn't notify of the change or generate a new BP. This would be a good update for the app.

 

[Quickstatus]

Makes sense they bump the infrequent low revenue traveller

Is this apology, the "fix" and the meaning of "customer" , only for frequent high revenue travellers?

The fix is simple:
Passengers should not be worse of because of airline initiated changes.
Excellence is not doing the ordinary or routine well, but the ability to manage the extraordinary - when the hits the fan.
Passengers want to know if they are going to be looked after when things go awry.

 

[transpactraveller]

I'd actually suggest bumping the QFF status pax would make more sense from a business perspective. They're loyal customers, like one of them above who said "cough happens, it's only a 3 hour flight". These people will keep coming back to QF for their lounge access, points and SCs, regardless of how poorly they're treated.

Meanwhile the infrequent low revenue traveller could be someone who's trying Qantas for the first time, maybe seeing if the higher price is worth it compared to their usual Jetstar or Virgin flight. If it all went well, they might change future bookings to Qantas. But after something like this they're now unlikely to choose to pay a premium for Qantas again.

Or maybe this is where QF can be proactive and communicate to their status pax that the flight is overbooked and they can be offered extra points or SCs to take a different flight

 

[Aeryn]

If due to irrops a smaller plane has to be used on a route, no airline can magically make more seats on that flight. Unless a significant number of passengers miss the flight then some will get bumped.

You havent offered a simple fix, just a whinge. We have no evidence that those impacted werent looked after. We do know some clearly didnt bother to look at their BP until boarding, and didnt notice the aircraft change during OLCI.

On a full service airline, those who get downgraded will get a refund of the points/cash they paid for service not received (yes may have to ask or followup), but its never just a case too bad so sad. If they arent happy to fly whY they can ask to be reaccomadted on next flight with J availablity.

Those who get offloaded, will be reaccomdated on another flight and if not in their home city, usually offered accomdation if that other flight is not the same day.

Was there a comms failure here re aircraft chnage, possibly but no evidence of customers being abandoned or not refunded.

Its not like Air NZ or Virgin could have magically found 2 smaller aircraft to fly at same time so no one got downgraded if the same situation where original larger aircraft was not avaialble happened to their passengers.

Does it suck if you are affected, yes. Do irrops happen, also yes.

 

[RooFlyer]

These people will keep coming back to QF for their lounge access, points and SCs, regardless of how poorly they're treated.

You are right! They keep going back year after year.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Of course, but most people do expect to receive the service they've paid for, and also don't appreciate being told they should have checked their email if one was never sent.

More proactive communication from Qantas would make all the difference. People are less likely to become unpleasant if they aren't caught by surprise when scanning their boarding pass at the gate.

I hope the 75% refund is at least quick and automatic!

I’m surprised by the number of people who don’t check their boarding passes when they’re issued! Not limited to this thread! First thing I do at the counter/airport is look at the seat number. Or refresh the app.

But… the takeaway from this is that in most cases, those that don’t check must still end up in the seat they thought they had (otherwise they’d check more often!)

So if that’s the case… they’ve had one instance where their seat was changed.

With the reduction from 42->27 seats, some were gonna miss out. Plus those in premium.

 

[transpactraveller]

You havent offered a simple fix, just a whinge. We have no evidence that those impacted werent looked after. We do know some clearly didnt bother to look at their BP until boarding, and didnt notice the aircraft change during OLCI.

I have offered more than just a whinge and in fact I did offer a simple fix. I suggested Qantas could proactively notify customers of changes and push a new BP in the app if their seat changes after OLCI.

You haven't contributed anything useful, just a determination to distort the facts and blame customers. You have ignored the part where the change happened after OLCI and after the BP were issued.

 

[Quickstatus]

On a full service airline, those who get downgraded will get a refund of the points/cash

Not so fast.
The problem is that the refund is the difference between what they paid (J) and the full price last minute Y seat available at the time of the downgrade. This often means that the refund amount is very poor.
Whereas the fair refund should be the price paid less the price of the downgrade cabin AT the time or original purchase.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not so fast.
The problem is that the refund is the difference between what they paid (J) and the full price last minute Y seat available at the time of the downgrade. This often means that the refund amount is very poor.
Whereas the fair refund should be the price paid less the price of the downgrade cabin AT the time or original purchase.

That’s - thankfully - a thing of the past now.

Qantas’ revised policy last year is 75% of the sector fare as refund. (points = refund between award levels).

The 75% refund also applied to in-op seats.

The old policy was terribly unfair, new one is more reasonable.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have offered more than just a whinge and in fact I did offer a simple fix. I suggested Qantas could proactively notify customers of changes and push a new BP in the app if their seat changes after OLCI.

You haven't contributed anything useful, just a determination to distort the facts and blame customers. You have ignored the part where the change happened after OLCI and after the BP were issued.

There are many operational reasons why a seat can be changed… pilots on duty, aircraft change, pax needing special assistance (medical or disability), unaccompanied minors, having to sit children with parents, or seats becoming in-operable.

Pax checking their seat allocation means they can pick up these changes as early as possible and remedy them.

In an idea world the airline should or actively notify… CX does it well … but it’s not always a given.

 

[Aeryn]

Except it was clear from post #1 that QF did push the seat change to the BP in the app as this is how the OPs friend noticed the seat change on arrival at the airport and was able to follow up.

It is also my experience where i have been moved from my pre-selected seat for either broken seat or to accommodate a couple that change has been pushed to the app, it never just happens at the gate.

I didn't blame customers anywhere for the aircraft change but did offer advice that the way to minimise getting bumped is to check in online as soon as it opens and to keep an eye on BP changes as its much easier as the OPs friend found out to get a remedy before boarding commences.

A change of seat within the same class is not grounds for a refund/compensation (although i think there are some grounds if swapped from lay flat to recline only). Obviously a change of class or being offloaded from flight is.

Given we know changes were pushed via the app (and app can push notifications, and has a visual indicator when there is a change), expecting QF to call every customer is IMO not warranted. YMMV.

 

[antycbr]

The A330 aircraft positioned up from SYD yesterday to operate QF119 and is now positioning back to SYD after operating the return AKL-BNE sector:
QF6114 from Brisbane to Sydney Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

Can we as a country really afford to be flying positioning flights at the moment with no real assurance of inbound Jet A1?

 

[Warragul]

Except it was clear from post #1 that QF did push the seat change to the BP in the app as this is how the OPs friend noticed the seat chnage on arrival at the airport and was able to follow up.

It is also my experience where i have been moved from my pre-selected seat for either broken seat or to accomodate a couple that change has been pushed to the app, it never just happens at the gate.

I didnt blame customersanywhere for the aircraft change bbut offer advice that the way to minimise getting bumped is to check in online as soon as it ipens and to keep an eye on BP changes as its much easier as the OPs friend found out to get a remedy before boarding commences.

A change of seat within the same class is nit grounds for a refund/compensation. Obviously a chabge of class or being offloaded from flight is.

given we know chnages were pushed via the app. Expecting QF to call every customer is IMO not warranted. YMMV.

How does checking in early stop you being bumped? I don't think a P1 FF will get bumped before a Bronze FF purely based on checking in later. Other factors would be considered (hopefully).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

How does checking in early stop you being bumped? I don't think a P1 FF will get bumped before a Bronze FF purely based on checking in later. Other factors would be considered (hopefully).

Depends on the airline. Some go by ‘last in, first off’.

Status may afford some protections, but there are times when some of us fly on an airline where we might not have status, and checking in early could mean the difference between you getting on, or not.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Can we as a country really afford to be flying positioning flights at the moment with no real assurance of inbound Jet A1?

Yes

 

[Aeryn]

Can we as a country really afford to be flying positioning flights at the moment with no real assurance of inbound Jet A1?

Yes and opting to use a smaller aircraft when original flight was not full means being more economical with limited fuel., especially if the B789 can instead be used on a longer haul flight where the benefits of its efficiency and loadings can be better realized.

 

[antycbr]

Yes and opting to use a smaller aircraft when original flight was not full means being more economical with limited fuel.

You sure about that when QF group are actively avoiding using inefficient A330s elsewhere?

Anyway, off topic.

 

[Quickstatus]

In this case they didn't and they used a less fuel efficient aircraft.

Of course in the end a single event is not significant. There will always be positioning of aircraft without passengers.