QF - Little demand for Y+ into Asia

[Flying Fox]

Personally I disagree -

Qantas sees little demand for premium economy to Asia - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

It’s a move that puts Qantas at odds with its foremost competitors on the Asian routes.


Cathay Pacific offers premium economy on all flights from Australia to Hong Kong, while Singapore Airlines will add premium economy to its Boeing 777-300ER and Airbus A380 fleet from the second half of next year.

Morris is unconcerned over her competitor’s push into the premium space, which typically attracts higher-paying leisure travellers and some business travellers on a budget.

I personally know many who fly (from AUS) CX Y+ because they want more comfort than Y and can't justify/afford J.

I feel its another bad QF decision.

 

[mannej]

Qantas sees little demand for premium economy to Asia - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

It’s a move that puts Qantas at odds with its foremost competitors on the Asian routes.


Cathay Pacific offers premium economy on all flights from Australia to Hong Kong, while Singapore Airlines will add premium economy to its Boeing 777-300ER and Airbus A380 fleet from the second half of next year.

If there were the demand, why isn't SQ fitting it to more aircraft that service Australia? Granted CX fly the Y+ product out of each AU port, SQ only fly it out of two.

 

[Flying Fox]

Wouldn't that make it even more important for QF to differentiate itself from SQ by offering more Y+ and give customers more options?

In addition, I'm sure that many pax would buy Y and then put in for points upgrades to Y+ or J. QF could then clear some of their points liabilities.

I'd encourage from leadership from QF.

 

[markis10]

Personally I disagree -...I personally know many who fly (from AUS) CX Y+ because they want more comfort than Y and can't justify/afford J.

I feel its another bad QF decision.

Its one of the few recent policies I actually agree with when it comes to QF. CX is often quoted by PE advocates as being an example of why QF should offer it to Asia, ironically overlooking the fact that CX themselves have admitted it's not making them money on the regional routes. We all may know a lot of people enjoying CX PE, at $1399 round trip it's hard not to. It will be no surprise to see it north of $2K once QF pull the A380.

 

[mannej]

Its one of the few recent policies I actually agree with when it comes to QF. CX is often quoted by PE advocates as being an example of why QF should offer it to Asia, ironically overlooking the fact that CX themselves have admitted it's not making them money on the regional routes. We all may know a lot of people enjoying CX PE, at $1399 round trip it's hard not to. It will be no surprise to see it north of $2K once QF pull the A380.

I feel that there is a lot of narrow-mindedness on this one. There are enough indicators out there to suggest that PE isn't as great as what it is made out to be for the airlines so I do agree with those comments.

However I am sure someone will find some argument against this no matter what.

 

[Himeno]

Qantas has no idea what it's talking about. The only reason their data shows "little demand" is because it isn't available.
I will book Y+ on mid-long haul flights. I will not book Y.

Qantas, Learn to listen to your customers and stop mindlessly following your bad ideas to the exclusion of anything anyone tells you.

 

[yohy?!]

CX is reducing the number of seats for PE into Asia from Oz due to poor demand - I think QF is probably on the right track here commercially although as a pax who has enjoyed many upgrades to PE I can't say I'm happy about it.

For CX I can understand why as their new Y product is very good and they probably struggle to differentiate PE on mid haul routes to justify the cost which can often be double discount Y, I imagine QF has a similar issue on the 380 as the Y product is quite strong

 

[JohnK]

It wouldn't be a great idea to install premium economy on an A330 and severely reduce economy seating available. I suspect what that would achieve is constant overselling of economy with free op-ups to premium economy and above.

 

[TomVexille]

Where I think PE works for CX out of Australia is that they can offer it all the way to numerous European and North American ports.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Where I think PE works for CX out of Australia is that they can offer it all the way to numerous European and North American ports.

Exactly. This concept just doesn't seem to be getting through to many here though.

 

[defurax]

I think as long as CX and QF offer heavily discounted J fare from Australia to HKG PE becomes less attractive, but if Y is $1,500, PE $3,000 and J $7,000 then I think more people would book PE. I find that working on a laptop in Y is REALLY hard, while PE allows for a productive flight.

I don't think $3,500 J fare will be around forever and when they are gone then people will miss PE...

 

[TomVexille]

Exactly. This concept just doesn't seem to be getting through to many here though.

I mean I think it would be great. But how many people actually buy PE? QF have those numbers.

 

[JohnPhelan]

It wouldn't be a great idea to install premium economy on an A330 and severely reduce economy seating available. I suspect what that would achieve is constant overselling of economy with free op-ups to premium economy and above.

And that is exactly what I think some of the pro-PE people have in mind!!! A WP buying a Y ticket would stand a very good chance of an op-up. Self-interest is a wonderful motivator.

 

[Pleb Status]

SQ can operate 28 weekly flights between PER-SIN. CX can operate 10 weekly flights between PER-HKG. QF cannot operate 1 monthly flight between PER-Asia.

So who do you think knows what passengers to Asia want, SQ/CX or QF? I would say QF's failure with PE may be more to do with QF than the PE product itself.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

SQ can operate 28 weekly flights between PER-SIN. CX can operate 10 weekly flights between PER-HKG. QF cannot operate 1 monthly flight between PER-Asia.

So who do you think knows what passengers to Asia want, SQ/CX or QF? I would say QF's failure with PE may be more to do with QF than the PE product itself.

What percentage of sq pax ex perth have Singapore as a final destination?

 

[boomy]

I think the reason PE has little success for QF is lack of advertising. QF actually offers a great product, much better then most airlines but the problem is not people don't know about it.
I have many friends who fly to Asia with QF and they automatically book either Y or J. When I ask why they don't consider PE the answer is usually: 'isn't it just a normal seat with some extra legroom? Why should I pay extra for that?'
This is obviously incorrect and when I try to explain the PE product is closer to J in terms of service and comfort with a price much closer to Y I always get looks of disbelief.
This is such a great product but if people are not aware of it, they will simply not book it.

 

[bobe]

sq can operate 28 weekly flights between per-sin. Cx can operate 10 weekly flights between per-hkg. Qf cannot operate 1 monthly flight between per-asia.

So who do you think knows what passengers to asia want, sq/cx or qf? I would say qf's failure with pe may be more to do with qf than the pe product itself.

great reply, i like your thinking

 

[wandering_fred]

While I agree that Australia-SE Asia is not an amazing market for PE, any red-eye flight of seven hours or more has a probability of a high level of interest. I think that includes SIN/HKG<->MEL/SYD/BNE at least once a day.

CX's problem with PE exAustralia is the exAustralia pricing model for all air fares (likely on all airlines). LAX-HKG-PER (rt or ow) in PE is a bit more than half the price of the similar PER-HKG-LAX (CX E class fares). And I priced QF exLAX for the one way price in PE. Short answer is you ride in plain Y SYD-PER and QF does not do one way pricing, so QF's one way is more than twice CX's and about the price of the QF round trip.

If QF is having trouble filling planes to SE Asia, anyone willing to pay a modest surcharge to ride in PE is additional profit for QF - except in the school holiday periods when the Y cabin fills. And I have flown BA SIN-SYD enough to suggest they don't have issues with selling (or filling) the PE cabin SIN-SYD.

And if what I read was correct, CX is only removing one row of PE, not the whole cabin.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[hossein_au]

While I agree that Australia-SE Asia is not an amazing market for PE, any red-eye flight of seven hours or more has a probability of a high level of interest. I think that includes SIN/HKGMEL/SYD/BNE at least once a day.

CX's problem with PE exAustralia is the exAustralia pricing model for all air fares (likely on all airlines). LAX-HKG-PER (rt or ow) in PE is a bit more than half the price of the similar PER-HKG-LAX (CX E class fares). And I priced QF exLAX for the one way price in PE. Short answer is you ride in plain Y SYD-PER and QF does not do one way pricing, so QF's one way is more than twice CX's and about the price of the QF round trip.

If QF is having trouble filling planes to SE Asia, anyone willing to pay a modest surcharge to ride in PE is additional profit for QF - except in the school holiday periods when the Y cabin fills. And I have flown BA SIN-SYD enough to suggest they don't have issues with selling (or filling) the PE cabin SIN-SYD.

And if what I read was correct, CX is only removing one row of PE, not the whole cabin.

Happy wandering

Fred

As you pointed out, pricing, for me personally, is a huge factor. I can get a PE on BA from SYD to LHR (return) for about $4k. Qantas wants a similar sum to only get me to SIN (return). And they wonder why there is no demand??!!

P.S: I know PE on BA is inferior to the one on QF, but I cannot justify the price difference. Sounds like I may not be in the minority after all.

 

[Isochronous]

CX is reducing the number of seats for PE into Asia from Oz due to poor demand - I think QF is probably on the right track here commercially although as a pax who has enjoyed many upgrades to PE I can't say I'm happy about it.

For CX I can understand why as their new Y product is very good and they probably struggle to differentiate PE on mid haul routes to justify the cost which can often be double discount Y, I imagine QF has a similar issue on the 380 as the Y product is quite strong

You seriously think that QF Y is as good as PE?