QF fleet discussion

[Isochronous]

Unless they're getting the loads I think once a day will be enough, with perhaps some new destinations in Asia being more attractive.

Could they do an Australia-HKG-Mainland China-Australia route like CX has been doing with CNS and ADL for years? That could open up some new markets, without dedicating all their capacity.



There was a link somewhere though saying that they had the capability, no?

I've done MEL-HKG 3x this year and the loads are consistently very high. What about MEL-HKG-PVG or MEL-HKG-PEK? or even a tag to TPE? But the problem might be the really appalling ATC delays that exist in China, especially for PVG. TPE might be more appealing then.

 

[Isochronous]

The demand is not there no matter how many engines you have, which is why Springbok and QF share, even that is on tenderhooks.

Loads are really that bad?

 

[Must...Fly!]

Loads are really that bad?

School holidays is marginally good. The rest of it makes for pretty poor reading. I hazard a guess that the resources sector keeps it going daily with J custom.

 

[markis10]

TPE might be more appealing then.

QF operated for many years to TPE without much success, demand is mostly ex TPE where there is strong pricing pressure, I was flying in J for under $2k return on a quarterly basis and that was an ex Aus fare.

 

[Flying mermaid]

School holidays is marginally good. The rest of it makes for pretty poor reading. I hazard a guess that the resources sector keeps it going daily with J custom.

I think even the J bookings are pretty thin. I have a Mum who is quite ill so have decided to take the kids and their partners back to South Africa for her 90th birthday in September (hopefully she will make it). Mr FM and I were already planning to go via Kenya with Emirates, so I needed 5 fares and having plenty of points decided to look for classic J awards for the ankle biters for SYD-JNB. I couldn't believe how many there were in Aug/Sep. Every second day had 6 J awards on them. We did an unexpected paid J flight to JNB recently and the J cabins were quite empty both ways when we booked.

 

[ozkid]

Their inability to do the golden triangle efficiently was one of the reasons JQ became their home, I doubt you will see many at all doing MEL-SYD-BNE, QF does not have the gate space at SYD thanks to project homecoming for a slow turnaround triangle, tag flights yes, especially for maintenance positioning but a pure golden triangle run of two segments, doubt it.

Most of the east west flights are not A330 ex BNE

Markis, what are the reasons why the A330 is not as efficient? I was told that this was due to cargo issues, how does this play into the equation.
I also presume that "efficiency" = turnaround time. What is the efficiency from a financial perspective?

 

[markis10]

Markis, what are the reasons why the A330 is not as efficient? I was told that this was due to cargo issues, how does this play into the equation.
I also presume that "efficiency" = turnaround time. What is the efficiency from a financial perspective?

The early A330s cannot be turned around quickly enough at the gate for a number of reasons including fuel and passenger load, planes on the ground cost money, that includes them occupying gates while another aircraft waits.

 

[Isochronous]

I think even the J bookings are pretty thin. I have a Mum who is quite ill so have decided to take the kids and their partners back to South Africa for her 90th birthday in September (hopefully she will make it). Mr FM and I were already planning to go via Kenya with Emirates, so I needed 5 fares and having plenty of points decided to look for classic J awards for the ankle biters for SYD-JNB. I couldn't believe how many there were in Aug/Sep. Every second day had 6 J awards on them. We did an unexpected paid J flight to JNB recently and the J cabins were quite empty both ways when we booked.

Was F dead when it was still available? Guess I might have to try SYD-JNB for a JASA soon!

 

[Flying mermaid]

Was F dead when it was still available? Guess I might have to try SYD-JNB for a JASA soon!

We did F last year in June and the cabin was 50% full. I am assuming that was normal given they gave F the chop.....

 

[moa999]

The early A330s cannot be turned around quickly enough at the gate for a number of reasons including fuel and passenger load, planes on the ground cost money, that includes them occupying gates while another aircraft waits.

Fuel - Versus a 767, given the A330 has newer engines surely the amount of fuel can't differ wildly.
Pax - A330 at 301/304 pax versus most 767s at 251/254 - maybe a little longer but can't see it being substantial.

I had been told the bigger issue was the increased wingspan 60.3m for A330 (same as 747-200) versus 47.6m for the 767 which caused greater taxiing and gate allocation issues

 

[markis10]

Fuel - Versus a 767, given the A330 has newer engines surely the amount of fuel can't differ wildly.
Pax - A330 at 301/304 pax versus most 767s at 251/254 - maybe a little longer but can't see it being substantial.

I had been told the bigger issue was the increased wingspan 60.3m for A330 (same as 747-200) versus 47.6m for the 767 which caused greater taxiing and gate allocation issues

Its not the amount of fuel but the time to refuel, much slower intake I believe. Wingspan is an issue in addition to pax ingress/ egress, Sydney only has two gates with enough clearance and dual aerobridges.

 

[IGetAround]

I've done MEL-HKG 3x this year and the loads are consistently very high. What about MEL-HKG-PVG or MEL-HKG-PEK? or even a tag to TPE? But the problem might be the really appalling ATC delays that exist in China, especially for PVG. TPE might be more appealing then.

To implement this, you would either need to:
1) connect the HKG-PEK-HKG tag to the SYD and BNE flights (like the LAX-JFK-LAX shuttle), resulting in those two planes sitting on the ground at HKG for longer than their current 2 hours; or
2) not connect to the BNE/SYD flights and operate the plane with only MEL-PEK traffic, resulting in either a half-empty plane between HKG-PEK or low yielding local traffic; or
3) park the plane at PEK for ~15 hours (costing 1 A330); or
4) have double-daily flights to HKG, which I can't see happening!

The LAX-JFK-LAX tag only works because the 17 hour turnarounds at LAX are sufficient to allow a 747 to get to JFK and back in the same day. Also worth pointing out that the majority of the recently cut QF international sectors have been those between two non-Australian cities (BKK-LHR, HKG-LHR, AKL-LAX, SIN-FRA, SIN-BOM), so it's a mode of operation that they seem to avoid.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Sydney only has two gates with enough clearance and dual aerobridges.

Speaking of which, the 787 has a wing span of 60.1m. Guess we won't be seeing them doing the triangle even if QF takes these planes in.

 

[markis10]

Speaking of which, the 787 has a wing span of 60.1m. Guess we won't be seeing them doing the triangle even if QF takes these planes in.

As previously mentioned wingspan is not the only issue.