QF Easter Strike by Engineers ON

[samh004]

Don't the unions realise that by striking it brings workers closer to no job at all? And perhaps they need to look into why we have such abysmal productivty in Oz.

That’s because most of the population are slackers… nothing to do with unions!

 

[JohnK]

I think it's a common IT issue. Having looked at many, many roles in the last 9 months over here in London - things are very similar. IT has turned into a commodity, and employers think that they can pay very cheap rates and get quality workers... and sadly they do get workers! As an example I've seen combined 1st/2nd/3rd tier support jobs going for $A30K. That's about a graduate's /entry level IT wage in Australia.

Some of the employees they are hiring at work would be on around $50,000-$60,000 per year, hopefully less. In their own country this sort of salary is unheard of but unfortunately in my opinion they are very ordinary workers with poor attitude and lacking professionalism. I am earning considerably more but sold myself short when I took on the job as I was more worried about getting a job in a weak market.

I have recently been given an issue that has been around for ~18 months and has been looked at by 4 people. Not one of them was able to solve it and each had spent a considerable amount of time investigating the issue. One of them had spent 3-4 days on the issue and not a single comment on any findings. Anyway I have been able to solve the issue with less than a day of investigation and the solution involves 2 programs with around 4 lines of code added.

 

[drron]

Some of the employees they are hiring at work would be on around $50,000-$60,000 per year, hopefully less. In their own country this sort of salary is unheard of but unfortunately in my opinion they are very ordinary workers with poor attitude and lacking professionalism.

Not just IT with this problem.Working in Regional Australia I see this happening all the time in health.
The worst example is now again in the news where a notorious doctor got a job because he was willing to accept a few thousand dollars less than a more qualified Australian.

 

[medhead]

Ahh, the "Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers Australia (APESMA)", another useless organisation sucking peoples money, providing no benefits, and providing no strategy to the rapidly increasing engineering and science brain drains in Oz. Kind of like Engineers Australia.

Don't the unions realise that by striking it brings workers closer to no job at all? And perhaps they need to look into why we have such abysmal productivty in Oz.

And yet APEMSA are miles ahead of the Public Service Association, who promise to get the payrises that you can't get yourself. I got sucked in on that, at the last EB negoiation they asked how much the government would pay extra and accepted it. Gee the pay rise I can't get myself :shock: At least APEMSA offer the same benefits, and have a lower fee and have $100 off an AMEX card (Can't remember which one, gold or platinum CC maybe)

If you think Australia has abysmal productivity, I can't imagine how you would rate the productivity in places like France, Germany and a few other EU countries....

 

[drewbles]

..either that, or specialise - which is what I've done. If you only have garden variety IT skills you'll only get garden variety pay.

Thread topic successfully derailed.

As mentioned by myself and others, we're very specialised in our knowledge yet have frequently been treated as commodities (not at my current employer, but many in the past).

My skill set is so finite, it's hard to find a role that i'm actually suited for. I've had to diversify slightly to include other sets, but i'm lucky to have an employer that gives a damn about us

 

[Durin's Bane]

That’s because most of the population are slackers… nothing to do with unions!

I beg to differ about unions. You're speaking to a guy who's worked in mining, processing, the steel industry and ports in three states since graduating from university. The negative influence, actions, and threats of violence of union representatives have been plain to see.

 

[medhead]

I beg to differ about unions. You're speaking to a guy who's worked in mining, processing, the steel industry and ports in three states since graduating from university. The negative influence, actions, and threats of violence of union representatives have been plain to see.

Yeah? How long since graduating from Uni?

 

[Durin's Bane]

And yet APEMSA are miles ahead of the Public Service Association, who promise to get the payrises that you can't get yourself. I got sucked in on that, at the last EB negoiation they asked how much the government would pay extra and accepted it. Gee the pay rise I can't get myself :shock: At least APEMSA offer the same benefits, and have a lower fee and have $100 off an AMEX card (Can't remember which one, gold or platinum CC maybe)

[FONT=&quot]Sorry to hear that. None of my colleagues in mining or oil & gas resources are members of APESMA. A few individuals are members of IEAust but that's only to retain CPEng status.[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

If you think Australia has abysmal productivity, I can't imagine how you would rate the productivity in places like France, Germany and a few other EU countries....

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Last time I checked OECD stats Germany and France had higher productivity than Australia.
[/FONT]

 

[Durin's Bane]

Yeah? How long since graduating from Uni?

11 years. And what I've seen is mild according to my senior colleagues.

 

[medhead]

[FONT=&quot]Sorry to hear that. None of my colleagues in mining or oil & gas resources are members of APESMA. A few individuals are members of IEAust but that's only to retain CPEng status.[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Last time I checked OECD stats Germany and France had higher productivity than Australia.
[/FONT]

And I'm not a member of apemsa either - I have had one experiment with a union and they were completely useless.

Well, then france and germany clearly show that the union has nothing to do with low productivity, given the excellent conditions that employees have in those countries and the pervasive union involvement in workplaces.

11 years. And what I've seen is mild according to my senior colleagues.

11 years! yep, I'd say what you've seen is mild to non-existant. I mean, really, you graduated and started working after the MUA was broken during the golden years of the Howard regieme.

 

[Durin's Bane]

11 years! yep, I'd say what you've seen is mild to non-existant. I mean, really, you graduated and started working after the MUA was broken during the golden years of the Howard regieme.

It's all relative. Have you ever worked in heavy industry? :?:



I've seen my fair share of intimidatory action by Union representatives including threats of violence, once against myself in 2003 at a BHP Billiton coal mine in NSW. I still remember in 2004 the union representatives at BlueScope steel in Port Kembla downed tools and decided to take a three hour nap on a wooden bench... at 8AM in the morning. I won't go into any further specifics apart from commenting that the union maggots wouldn't know hard work if it hit them.

Of course this is nothing like one of my colleagues who completed an apprenticeship and was stationed at some of the wharves in Melbourne in the mid 1970s...

 

[medhead]

It's all relative. Have you ever worked in heavy industry? :?:

yes, of course, i have a few years in the mining industry. But hard rock none of that dangerous coal mining rubbish. I've also had a chance to hear a few stories from Central Qld coal miners, including the advice that if one wants to work in IR then one needs to buy a shotgun for the car. My uncle worked on building a power station near gladstone. My dad was very involved in a union in Qld. So I've also heard plenty of stories about actually violence by the Qld police, and running battles.

70's whavies - google bottom of the harbour and painters and dockers, or watch the last underbelly series.

By comparison I can only imagine that intimadatory action in the last 11 years would be no more than a test of resolve/character. I experienced plenty of those in the military

 

[straitman]

A little further OT.

Some years ago when there was a strike in Bass Strait the pilot group was asked by the unions to stop work also. The answer was 'of course we will' which then upset the unions as their members could not be brought onshore to partake in the strike or have medivac or SAR coverage.

After a very short period of thought the unions then came to the realisation that maybe the pilot group should never need to be part of a strike. :shock:

 

[drron]

An interesting discussion.I have seen both sides of the equation having been a "union boss" in my younger days.And it was the PSA Medhead and we really did dramatically change the working conditions of young doctors getting the 40 hour week after calling australia's first doctors strike.One of the reason's i work in regional australia now.
Then as an employer I have had to deal with a union when sacking a truly incompetent employee.A real pity there is little common sense in IR.
So back to airlines-some pretty intense views held by FAs over at AA in their strike action and not all support their union-
Will AA flight attendants strike? Ex-TWA flight attendants hope so
And truly back on topic-it never ceases to amaze me with the QF engineers how they knock their own work to try and harm QF.This is not the first time.

 

[medhead]

An interesting discussion.I have seen both sides of the equation having been a "union boss" in my younger days.And it was the PSA Medhead and we really did dramatically change the working conditions of young doctors getting the 40 hour week after calling australia's first doctors strike.One of the reason's i work in regional australia now.

Well that is really good to know that the PSa is good for something, No doubt due to the "union boss" involved. Of course, in the situation I'm whinging about the PSA did a good job by the medical scientist. Just a shame they did bother looking after the other 80% of their members