QF 9 loads Ex PER versus Ex MEL

[Max Samuels]

This is really just a question out of interest rather than anything I need to know.... but does anyone know anything about QF 9 and why the numbers ex MEL seem to be way lower than Ex PER? I always assumed (my mistake) that the same crowd that flew QF 9 via DXB would also choose the new via PER option... but doesn't seem to be the case. I'm flying on it in a few weeks and was looking at the flight load.... totally open Ex MEL leg, but the Ex PER leg is almost full. Perhaps that is why the allow the MEL-PER domestic leg? Because they aren't getting the loads they wanted? I remember when the announced the flight ages ago they initially weren't actively promoting the dom leg...

So I wonder if this is a combo of people that like flying via DXB, prefer EK to QF, want to fly in F? Something else?

 

[levelnine]

So I wonder if this is a combo of people that like flying via DXB, prefer EK to QF, want to fly in F? Something else?

Think about it from the perspective of a MEL-based flyer to LHR (and, more generally, Europe).

Why would you take MEL-PER-LHR over the other options?
- To get QF's new business class product (compared to the A380)
- To get one long uninterrupted leg (PER-LHR) for sleep

Now think about the many counter-arguments:

Why would you take MEL-SIN/DXB-LHR over MEL-PER-LHR?
- A stop closer to the half way mark
- The ability to fly in first class
- A more comfortable economy class product
- A more comfortable premium economy class product
- Better chances of an upgrade from economy to a higher class (more PE/J seats on the A380)
- The ability to go to a larger number of destinations in one stop (either via SIN or DXB)
- A more interesting place to stop over to break up the trip (ie SIN)

It's no surprise MEL-PER-LHR is struggling.

Part of the problem is that QF shot themselves in the foot with their 787 configuration: cramped economy and premium economy. While there is a superior alternative out there (the A380), it will struggle.

 

[exceladdict]

It does bode well for PER should sunrise actually happen though. I would be really interested to know the % feed in traffic from elsewhere in AU on the PER-LHR leg.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Think about it from the perspective of a MEL-based flyer to LHR (and, more generally, Europe).

Why would you take MEL-PER-LHR over the other options?
- To get QF's new business class product (compared to the A380)
- To get one long uninterrupted leg (PER-LHR) for sleep

Now think about the many counter-arguments:

Why would you take MEL-SIN/DXB-LHR over MEL-PER-LHR?
- A stop closer to the half way mark
- The ability to fly in first class
- A more comfortable economy class product
- A more comfortable premium economy class product
- Better chances of an upgrade from economy to a higher class (more PE/J seats on the A380)
- The ability to go to a larger number of destinations in one stop (either via SIN or DXB)
- A more interesting place to stop over to break up the trip (ie SIN)

It's no surprise MEL-PER-LHR is struggling.

Part of the problem is that QF shot themselves in the foot with their 787 configuration: cramped economy and premium economy. While there is a superior alternative out there (the A380), it will struggle.

What evidence is there that QF9/10 is struggling?
They are certainly charging plenty for it and not seen an empty seat in J to LHR when I have flown it.
Unsure about the Y/PE loads on my flights as I don’t look there.

 

[levelnine]

What evidence is there that QF9/10 is struggling?

I am talking about the MEL-PER leg (ie the subject of this thread).

I am a regular on the service and have never seen it full -- generally about 50% in J, PE & Y.

The loads on the PER-LHR leg are high, especially in J. With the small J cabin and large number of upgrade requests for such a long leg, I've never seen J go out less than 90% full.

 

[Max Samuels]

What evidence is there that QF9/10 is struggling?
They are certainly charging plenty for it and not seen an empty seat in J to LHR when I have flown it.
Unsure about the Y/PE loads on my flights as I don’t look there.

Well the point I was making (or trying to) is that YES, PER-LHR seems to be full. But MEL-PER is not. Which means, if I apply my home economics powers of deduction, that MEL-LHR is NOT full. So I was wondering why MEL peeps didn't want to go via PER....

Makes sense if you were one of the 3 people that live in PER - why WOULDN'T you go direct? But for everyone else (incl MEL people), if you have to travel via somewhere, PER doesn't seem to be the winner...

 

[Max Samuels]

- A more interesting place to stop over to break up the trip (ie SIN)

What is the PER stopover like?
I haven't done it - I am convinced that it would be a nothing burger but interested to hear any reviews....

 

[Princess Fiona]

I am talking about the MEL-PER leg (ie the subject of this thread).

I am a regular on the service and have never seen it full -- generally about 50% in J, PE & Y.

The loads on the PER-LHR leg are high, especially in J. With the small J cabin and large number of upgrade requests for such a long leg, I've never seen J go out less than 90% full.

I understand now that you have clarified it’s just that sector, not the entire flight.
I was aware of the subject of the thread.

 

[downgraded]

What is the PER stopover like?
I haven't done it - I am convinced that it would be a nothing burger but interested to hear any reviews....

It's quick and requires little walking or queuing, except to get into the QF transit dungeon which is a hole in the ground with a skylight and no windows. The lounge only just caters for the numbers off one 787 so if QF had ever got other similarly timed flights of the ground it would have been hopeless. For anyone else it's like sitting at the end of one of SYD's departure concourses.

When all is said and done, if your destination is London and you just want to get their, PER is adequate.

 

[Princess Fiona]

What is the PER stopover like?
I haven't done it - I am convinced that it would be a nothing burger but interested to hear any reviews....

The lounge is a nice space but small, cramped when full and the stopover is barely long enough to grab a shower and bite to eat.

 

[muppet]

Whenever I’ve looked the QF9 is being flogged at quite a premium to the QF35/QF1 alternative.

It’s a little quicker with no chance of misconnect, so I think they can get away with it, maybe being a little empty MEL-PER is okay with those premium fares.

 

[SeaWolf]

Whenever I’ve looked the QF9 is being flogged at quite a premium to the QF35/QF1 alternative.

I think this might be the core of it. If you're coming from MEL/SYD/BNE you have to do a transit stop somewhere and if it's going to be cheaper to do that in SIN/DXB then why wouldn't you? On the PER-LHR leg it's probably picking up a lot of people at PER who would be prepared to pay a bit extra to fly non-stop rather than spending a few hours changing planes on the way.

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

Yes I think they're actively pushing Melbourne people onto QF35/37-QF1 as it's always a bit cheaper and not much longer. My suspicion was they are filling the 9 out of Perth (maybe with a bit of Adelaide/WA/Whatever) traffic and don't want to sell the capacity out of Melbourne.

 

[TheInsider]

Plenty of people are still booking QF35-QF1 nd QF37-QF1, as well as the QF9.
So there are 3 options.
Option 1 and 2 are cheaper. People go on price.

Also maybe to the amazement of the regulars on here, majority of people don't know, nor care what aircraft they are on. Let alone transit point. As long as it's the 'cheapest'. You hear about it daily when westerners go via China to get to LAX have a 9hr transit, to save $80!

 

[Max Samuels]

Yes I think they're actively pushing Melbourne people onto QF35/37-QF1 as it's always a bit cheaper and not much longer. My suspicion was they are filling the 9 out of Perth (maybe with a bit of Adelaide/WA/Whatever) traffic and don't want to sell the capacity out of Melbourne.

Actually that is quite interesting.... I think might the case for the entire East Coast.... recently I was looking for J or J/F combo ex BNE and the QF 9/10 option came up LAST - in fact I really had to dig to find it. They (QF) actually pushed everywhere else first (SIN, SYD/SIN, DXB). Maybe they keep it for Perth and Adelaide people

 

[Max Samuels]

You hear about it daily when westerners go via China to get to LAX have a 9hr transit, to save $80!

Yep, but certainly the 9hr transit is totally worth flying on best world airline?

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Just a note that they are certainly not actively pushing the domestic sector on this flight.
If you search for PER-SYD/SYD-PER then after the direct flights you will see flights via MEL but in my experience QF9/10 will not be among them.
It's the same in another booking system.
If you search for PER-MEL it will be available but when you select it there are enough bright red and yellow warning dialogues to scare off all but the most persistent!

 

[Max Samuels]

Just a note that they are certainly not actively pushing the domestic sector on this flight.
If you search for PER-SYD/SYD-PER then after the direct flights you will see flights via MEL but in my experience QF9/10 will not be among them.
It's the same in another booking system.
If you search for PER-MEL it will be available but when you select it there are enough bright red and yellow warning dialogues to scare off all but the most persistent!

Well that makes sense to me.... it is because it departs from the international terminal in MEL, so the connection would be weird and require international type carry-on restrictions from the SYD end.... which they probs think is just too hard to realistically enforce

 

[TheInsider]

Yep, but certainly the 9hr transit is totally worth flying on best world airline?

What Air China, China Eastern, China Southern?!

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Well that makes sense to me.... it is because it departs from the international terminal in MEL, so the connection would be weird and require international type carry-on restrictions from the SYD end.... which they probs think is just too hard to realistically enforce

I've done it in and while it is a bit of a walk it's not difficult because at least in MEL the two terminals are in the same building.
There are good reasons to do it. Good upgrade availability. Access to the F lounge in MEL for WP PAX.
And international catering, so if you do make it into J, you can real instead of acid rain*.

*Domestic sparkling.