Qantas to Norfolk Island

[drron]

Their treatment of these Islands makes me think the Victoria's health department is dysfunctional or that in line with 2020 Victorian bureaucracy has an inability to admit a mistake.

 

[cmon0005]

Their treatment of these Islands makes me think the Victoria's health department is dysfunctional or that in line with 2020 Victorian bureaucracy has an inability to admit a mistake.

I would say a bit of both..

 

[Bazzi]

We got in on the QFF offer and spent 5 days/4 nights on the island last week. We were very lucky with both of our flights as QF cancelled the two inbound direct flights from Sydney and also cancelled two outbound direct flights. We stayed at the Hideaway Retreat and apart from two other guests further down the property, we had the place to ourselves. With the exception of last year’s lockdown, they have had a pretty good run up until this lockdown and the island is heavily booked from August till January.

We had a island tour included in our accommodation and most of the guests were affected by flight cancellations.

We dined at Hillis, Baileys, The Homestead, Aunty Marys, the Olive Tree and the Bowlo - our favourites were Hillis and Aunty Marys. Food was excellent and the young service staff were terrific. I gave up trying to order a specific wine label each night as they were never available, in fact, the Homestead just lists the varietals, no labels, so I reverted to ordering the ‘mystery Shiraz/Pinot’. We enjoyed coffee at Prinke most mornings and Slicks was great for excellent charcuterie, fresh baked artisan bread and antipasto. No stock but apparently a bottle of Moët Chandon is $36 from the Bond Store.

We were expecting to pay for internet access but weren’t and I found the speeds quite good but we do come from a black spot in regional NSW so our expectations were low. We were provided with a phone, which we didn’t use, and our text messages downloaded once connected to the internet. A great tip was to phone the airport after 9.30am on departure day and a recorded message advises when check in opens. We drove down, checked in, and then went and had lunch at the Mt Pitt lookout which has you above the incoming flight. Our flight was going to depart early (only 3 on the inbound flight and 16 outbound) so we were told what time to be back at the airport.

The mornings and evenings were cool but I swam everyday in 20 degrees water.

We loved it and have made plans to return in March 2022.

 

[cmon0005]

VIC has 'graciously' downgraded Norfolk Island from Red to Orange.

But as we are still barred from going there will have to wait for ample opportunity.

 

[henrus]

Update from Air NZ. Basically, the old plan of Air New Zealand opening a Brisbane crew base has been scraped. Qantas will now operate Norfolk flights until 30 June 2022.

Air New Zealand will be suspending passenger services between Australia and Norfolk Island from 30 August 2021 due to the ongoing spread of COVID-19 in Australia and the suspension of quarantine-free travel between Australia and New Zealand. Qantas will continue to operate passenger services to Norfolk Island until 30 June 2022.

As a result, Air New Zealand will be refunding all passengers currently booked to travel on our Norfolk Island services after 29 August 2021.

Please note, customers will not be automatically re-accommodated to travel on Qantas. For those customers still wishing to travel, a new ticket will need to be purchased directly with Qantas.

 

[justinbrett]

Very interesting. Air NZ may as well walk away and give the contact to Qantas.

 

[Bindibuys]

Just re-booked for June next year......

 

[henrus]

Very interesting. Air NZ may as well walk away and give the contact to Qantas.

More to it than that. The A320's apparently have better performance than the B737's which is likely a big factor of Air NZ being able to hold onto the route. It also wouldn't surprise me if they continue to offer the Australian gov a cheaper price than what VA/QF would be capable of.

 

[justinbrett]

More to it than that. The A320's apparently have better performance than the B737's which is likely a big factor of Air NZ being able to hold onto the route. It also wouldn't surprise me if they continue to offer the Australian gov a cheaper price than what VA/QF would be capable of.

If only the QF group had access to a fleet of A320s.... oh wait....

What do you mean? Fuel burn? Ability to divert to NZ / back to Australia? No such thing as a blanket "better performance". It's not a sports car.

I'm also not sure how/why NZ could do it for a cheaper price than QF/VA.

 

[nancypants]

I can foresee network aviation being brought in for this

I think using JQ would be a bridge too far. But I understand that the a320 offers advantages especially as far as freight goes

 

[henrus]

What do you mean? Fuel burn? Ability to divert to NZ / back to Australia? No such thing as a blanket "better performance". It's not a sports car.

Same reason why VA use the A320's for the Xmas/Cocos Island flights and QF/VA use the A320's for the WA mine charters. Apparently the A320's have the ability to lift significantly more payload especially on hotter days or when using shorter runways.

From what I've heard this is less of a problem during the winter months but in summer when taking off from the east coast of Australia they want to be able to maximise the amount of freight they can carry given the limited number of flights. Same can also apply leaving NLK with a reasonably short runway of ~1900m.

I don't think diversion is an issue between the two although for some reason QF seems to be a lot more cautious with a few diversions to NZ (and a handful of cancellations) in their short operating period whereas Air NZ hasn't had that many issues over the years.

I'm also not sure how/why NZ could do it for a cheaper price than QF/VA.

Operating cost in New Zealand has always been cheaper than Australia. That's why for many years we had Jetconnect and Pacific Blue. Over the years it's continuously been cheaper to hire staff and even register aircraft in New Zealand. I imagine this would flow through to the offer that each airline pitches to the federal gov.

It's worth remembering that under an AU/NZ agreement, any airline registered in Australia can operate in New Zealand (hence we have JQ New Zealand domestic services) and any New Zealand airlines can operate domestic Australian flights (hence Air NZ have operated the NLK service).

I can foresee network aviation being brought in for this
I think using JQ would be a bridge too far.

QF don't have any A320's based in QLD/NSW so network aviation would have to setup a base first.

As for using JQ, it wouldn't surprise me if the tender requirements state that the product must be a full service airline providing a minimum number of seats/freight per service. This likely rules out JQ and even smaller carriers like TL or QQ who could be interested.

 

[justinbrett]

I'd say a big carrot for giving Air NZ the contract last time was that they were going to fly to both Auckland and Australia. They have since stopped flying to Auckland and I don't think will start again.

I very much doubt the tender requirements specifies what service level is delivered. I would say the likely drivers would be frequency, seats and freight. It does specify that 1500Kg of freight is allocated per flight but that can be reduced for operational reasons.

Operating cost in New Zealand has always been cheaper than Australia. That's why for many years we had Jetconnect and Pacific Blue. Over the years it's continuously been cheaper to hire staff and even register aircraft in New Zealand. I imagine this would flow through to the offer that each airline pitches to the federal gov.

That doesn't really apply when you're talking about Australian based services. Those airlines did not operate domestic flights within Australia. For this to work, it would have to be tagged on to a trans tasman flight or set up a dedicated crew base, the latter of which negates the lower operating cost model.

QF don't have any A320's based in QLD/NSW so network aviation would have to setup a base first.

As for using JQ, it wouldn't surprise me if the tender requirements state that the product must be a full service airline providing a minimum number of seats/freight per service. This likely rules out JQ and even smaller carriers like TL or QQ who could be interested.

I don't really buy into Jetstar being any less competitive than Qantas, but even if it were, not that hard to paint an A320 in Qantas colours and give everybody a meal (not sure Air NZ even do this so are they even full service?). Or you just tailor the JQ offerings for that route to meet the contract requirements. But again, I very much doubt the contract specifies whether the pax have to get a hot meal. But maybe everybody gets free bags. Very easy to do market specific bundles.

I'm not sure the 737 vs A320 thing is such a big deal if Qantas are going to do it for more than 12 months. At the end of the day it's a subsidy based system, so Qantas might be happy to fly it making a lower profit than Air New Zealand, because it can make money on connecting flights.

 

[henrus]

I'd say a big carrot for giving Air NZ the contract last time was that they were going to fly to both Auckland and Australia. They have since stopped flying to Auckland and I don't think will start again.

I think you'll find it's cost...

The Air NZ contract was for $8.5 million between 2016 and 2021. This has probably blown out a bit due to COVID as there were some flights during the whole country first lockdown that had single digit passengers onboard, likely requiring heavier underwriting than forecast .

Qantas has been paid a sizeable amount of money to continue operating throughout the period when Air NZ has been unable to...

In just 2021 alone Qantas has received the following:
From 29 Jan to 3 Feb they were paid $384,954
From 18 Mar to 19 Jun they were paid $3.985m
From 20 Jun to 29 Aug they were paid $3.042m

In about a months time when the agreement is formally published it'll be interesting to see how much they'll now get to cover through to mid next year however it's clear that in less than a year Qantas has received more of a subsidy than Air NZ was expected to receive in 5 years.

Two of the key objectives that Air New Zealand agreed to in the contract were; Establish a scalable service delivery model for airline services to NI which matches seasonal demand, and develop a business model for the delivery of the Supplies which is commercially viable and minimises or eliminates the requirement for underwriting. The Qantas group could have easily done this but at a subsidy of just $1.7m per year they didn't bother.

 

[justinbrett]

I think you'll find it's cost...

The Air NZ contract was for $8.5 million between 2016 and 2021. This has probably blown out a bit due to COVID as there were some flights during the whole country first lockdown that had single digit passengers onboard, likely requiring heavier underwriting than forecast .

Qantas has been paid a sizeable amount of money to continue operating throughout the period when Air NZ has been unable to...

In just 2021 alone Qantas has received the following:
From 29 Jan to 3 Feb they were paid $384,954
From 18 Mar to 19 Jun they were paid $3.985m
From 20 Jun to 29 Aug they were paid $3.042m

In about a months time when the agreement is formally published it'll be interesting to see how much they'll now get to cover through to mid next year however it's clear that in less than a year Qantas has received more of a subsidy than Air NZ was expected to receive in 5 years.

Two of the key objectives that Air New Zealand agreed to in the contract were; Establish a scalable service delivery model for airline services to NI which matches seasonal demand, and develop a business model for the delivery of the Supplies which is commercially viable and minimises or eliminates the requirement for underwriting. The Qantas group could have easily done this but at a subsidy of just $1.7m per year they didn't bother.

Strange, the contract for 2011-2015 was worth 43 million

Must have been desperate for the renewal in 2016.

 

[henrus]

Strange, the contract for 2011-2015 was worth 43 million

Where did you get $43m from?

Here was the published 2016-2021 information.

Contract Notice View - CN3379310: AusTender

AusTender provides centralised publication of Australian Government business opportunities, annual procurement plans and contracts awarded.

www.tenders.gov.au

This document hinted at $10m from 2011 to 2018 which also fits in line with ~$1.5m per year.

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/department/ips/files/log/19-030-Docs-for-FOI-log-2.pdf

Qantas looks on track to receive over $10m this year alone which is worse than what Air Nauru was receiving back in 2008 although with inflation its probably a similar dollar amount.

 

[justinbrett]

Where did you get $43m from?

Here was the published 2016-2021 information.

Contract Notice View - CN3379310: AusTender

AusTender provides centralised publication of Australian Government business opportunities, annual procurement plans and contracts awarded.

www.tenders.gov.au

This document hinted at $10m from 2011 to 2018 which also fits in line with ~$1.5m per year.

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/department/ips/files/log/19-030-Docs-for-FOI-log-2.pdf

Qantas looks on track to receive over $10m this year alone which is worse than what Air Nauru was receiving back in 2008 although with inflation its probably a similar dollar amount.

Also on Austender. Seems to be miscategorised but description definitely fits.

Have you got any other hard evidence of the 2016+ contract amount? It's not a fixed price, it takes in to account fuel costs etc. It could be an error in Austender (maybe up to 8.5 million per year).

Contract Notice View - CN846551: AusTender

AusTender provides centralised publication of Australian Government business opportunities, annual procurement plans and contracts awarded.

www.tenders.gov.au

It's obviously the airline's market. That comes with a very nice surcharge when the Australian Government didn't have many options.

 

[Mattg]

VIC has 'graciously' downgraded Norfolk Island from Red to Orange.

But as we are still barred from going there will have to wait for ample opportunity.

Norfolk Island is now listed as a green zone for Victoria.

Moot point with Victoria in lockdown

 

[henrus]

Norfolk Island is now listed as a green zone for Victoria.

Ironically Jervis Bay is now green as well however when you click on Norfolk, Xmas, Cocos or Jervis Bay it comes up with

"People who have been in these Local Government Areas before 10:00pm AEST Monday 16 August, 2021 have been in a Red Zone."

It's quite clear that whoever is running the VIC permit colour system has no idea what they're doing. Darwin and Cairns are still red zones but Jervis Bay is ok. Ironically Melbourne is listed as a green zone on their own website... under their own wacko definition, it should be at least an extreme risk zone.

 

[Bazzi]

We’re going back to NI in March 2022. Looking to book QF classic reward flights to lock the dates in (while secretly hoping they offer another QFF point sale for the sectors) and need advice as to whether I am reading the ‘Fly Flexible’ T&C’s correct. From the QF website re award booking:

• An Australian domestic or trans-Tasman Classic Flight Reward with Qantas before 28 February 2022 and you can change or cancel your booking free of charge until 28 February 2022

There is no mention of booking and flying before 28 Feb 2022 so am I correct in thinking that the fee waiver would apply for a booking with a departure date in March if it was cancelled prior to 28 Feb 2022?

 

[aus_flyer]

Australian domestic flights​

Any Qantas operated flights within Australia:

• booked between 21 May 2020 and 28 February 2022,
• for travel between 12 June 2020 and 28 February 2022.