Qantas repatriation flight from London

[Townsend]

It is good to look at flight radar 24 and see a Qantas flight originating in London listed. It has been to long since I saw Qantas on an international arrival board.

 

[TheInsider]

QF110 - nearly there at DRW.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The news last night reported a QF repatriation flight arriving from London with '140 passengers on board'. That doesn't sound like it's even close to the 'covid capacity' of 178?

Also interesting was that only part of that 140 - something like 90? - were deemed vulnerable pax.

 

[TheInsider]

The news last night reported a QF repatriation flight arriving from London with '140 passengers on board'. That doesn't sound like it's even close to the 'covid capacity' of 178?

Also interesting was that only part of that 140 - something like 90? - were deemed vulnerable pax.

Could've been people who couldn't get a negative PCR test at the airport with their rapid testing there.

 

[sudoer]

Also interesting was that only part of that 140 - something like 90? - were deemed vulnerable pax.

No idea how DFAT are prioritising the vulnerable.

A couple who are close friends of mine have been living in London for 4-5 years. Prior to covid, they booked on BA to return in October 2020, but those flights were cancelled when BA pulled out of SYD. They rebooked with Cathay for mid January 2021, but those were cancelled due to HK gov restrictions on UK arrivals in early Jan.

At that point they registered with DFAT. About a week later they received an email from DFAT advertising the two repatriation flights departing 30th and today. They both had stable employment and flexible accommodation arrangements, so far from 'vulnerable', but surprisingly they were still sent a link to the Qantas booking portal. The flights were full within minutes, but it seems DFAT are just mass-sending the booking link out to everyone rather than prioritising those who've been waiting longest.

They didn't end up taking the DFAT flight for two reasons - I'd sorted out a magical LH/NH itinerary via FRA and HND (for a relatively reasonable price) just before the arrival caps were halved, but also the DFAT flights have a mandatory quarantine fee without exception, whereas commercial flights into NSW have the quarantine fee waived if you had a flight booked before mid July 2020.

They're on their final NH HND-SYD leg home today Now they get to the play the quarantine hotel lottery...

Could've been people who couldn't get a negative PCR test at the airport with their rapid testing there.

My friends used one of the 'test and rest' hotel deals at LHR. Apparently the cost was close to the same as getting the test done elsewhere, so a free hotel stay!

https://www.exeter.ac.uk/media/universityofexeter/coronavirus/imagesanddocs/University_Test_and_Rest_V8.pdf

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Whatever the reason, not ideal that the flight went out under capacity I wonder why no standby list or something similar to fill any remaining spaces. (Yes, there’s an element of managing expectations for those who are at the airport on standby... but I don’t know which is worse... being on standby and missing out or finding out the plane cou,d have taken 38 more passengers?)

As for choosing the vulnerable, there was a media report that those in the vulnerable list were sent a link to the QF website an hour or so before the flights were advertised more widely... so there was supposedly a small priority window. Dunno how that operates in practice, or if you were on the tube when the priority window opened (etc).

Certainly some pax on the flight were commenting that they did not consider themselves vulnerable (but thankful they were able to secure seats).

 

[justinbrett]

I'm pretty sure they've said some people just aren't turning up to the airport

 

[sudoer]

I wonder why no standby list or something similar to fill any remaining spaces. (Yes, there’s an element of managing expectations for those who are at the airport on standby... but I don’t know which is worse... being on standby and missing out or finding out the plane cou,d have taken 38 more passengers?)

I agree it's frustrating that seats went out empty. But it's probably also not feasible to operate a standby list when you require travellers to have a PCR test result ready (not rapid antigen) at ~$300 a pop. It wouldn't be practical unless travellers were cancelling at least 24 hours prior to departure.

As for choosing the vulnerable, there was a media report that those in the vulnerable list were sent a link to the QF website an hour or so before the flights were advertised more widely... so there was supposedly a small priority window.

That would make some sense, but it also means the link was sent to them at 7:30am. You wouldn't want to have slept in..

I'm pretty sure they've said some people just aren't turning up to the airport

Absolutely crazy. I wonder how many booked on the flight are no-showing because they or someone in their group tests positive. Given the prevalence of Covid in London right now, that would surely account for some no-shows on each flight.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I agree it's frustrating that seats went out empty. But it's probably also not feasible to operate a standby list when you require travellers to have a PCR test result ready (not rapid antigen) at ~$300 a pop. It wouldn't be practical unless travellers were cancelling at least 24 hours prior to departure.

I guess for standby pax they could have used the rapid test? Or rapid test and PCR at the gate with results transmitted while the plane was in flight? You'd have to close check-in three or four hours prior. But doable maybe.

There would be logistics and costs involved with extra ground staff at the airport, but given any empty seats at $2500 a pop has to be covered by the Aussie taxpayer, that's probably a cost I'd be willing to bear.

 

[sudoer]

I guess the point of the test is to avoid mixing an infectious person with 150+ uninfected people.

Payment is taken at the time of booking through the Qantas booking engine. So the tax payer does not bear a direct cost for a seat going out empty. That's why I'm surprised so many are no-showing.

 

[justinbrett]

At the end of the day, seats on the aircraft are not the limiting factor - it’s the quarantine places that matter.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I guess the point of the test is to avoid mixing an infectious person with 150+ uninfected people.

Payment is taken at the time of booking through the Qantas booking engine. So the tax payer does not bear a direct cost for a seat going out empty. That's why I'm surprised so many are no-showing.

Good point. Although I wonder if all those people really are losing their $2500. Or if they will get refunds or a credit.

Understand they want to keep folk separated, but that's potentially where the rapid test could be administered at check-in, and perhaps seat those 37 in the separate cabin in rows 40-44 with their own WC?

 

[sudoer]

In the case of this week's DFAT operations where QF110 ran twice in three days, you'd hope any no show seats on the first departure were sellable on the second departure (subject to physical distancing on the seat map)

 

[sudoer]

Another thought - it's plausible the flights are going out partially empty because J seats are unsold. Those who could afford $8k to get home could have done so fairly easily prior to the arrivals cap being halved two weeks ago.

DFAT has a tough choice - do they oversell economy and op-up people to Y+ / J? or do they limit tickets sold in each class to the number of actual seats?

If demand for J isn't strong, overselling is the most efficient way to get bums in every seat and even makes the most financial sense, hence why airlines do it. But the blowback and damage to public image if the federal government oversells a repatriation flight and has to turn a stranded citizen away at check-in with no viable alternative to get them home is going to be a serious news story. So my guess is they would not be overselling.

 

[henrus]

Obviously, it's not going to happen but it would be great if they'd be a lot more open about the whole process.

Saying exactly how many seats were opened, what level of capacity Howard Springs is at, how many no shows etc.

Likewise, each state should be releasing detailed overviews of their weekly caps (and how they get distributed to airlines).

Before anyone says any of my above requests are unreasonable, NZ has been able to do all of the above:

Managed isolation and quarantine data | Ministry of Business, Innovation & Employment

Data and statistics about managed isolation and quarantine in New Zealand.

www.mbie.govt.nz

They also publish a full list of hotels involved:

Isolation and quarantine | Ministry of Business, Innovation & Employment

www.miq.govt.nz

and finally PDF version of the printed welcome pack given to people on arrival:

https://www.miq.govt.nz/assets/MIQ-documents/miq-welcome-pack-english.pdf

Good luck finding any of the above for any state/territory in Australia. I've seen a copy of the Howard Springs welcome pack but only because someone scanned it and shared it to YouTube with their vlog updates whilst in the facility.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Another thought - it's plausible the flights are going out partially empty because J seats are unsold. Those who could afford $8k to get home could have done so fairly easily prior to the arrivals cap being halved two weeks ago.

DFAT has a tough choice - do they oversell economy and op-up people to Y+ / J? or do they limit tickets sold in each class to the number of actual seats?

If demand for J isn't strong, overselling is the most efficient way to get bums in every seat and even makes the most financial sense, hence why airlines do it. But the blowback and damage to public image if the federal government oversells a repatriation flight and has to turn a stranded citizen away at check-in with no viable alternative to get them home is going to be a serious news story. So my guess is they would not be overselling.

alternatively if there were unsold J seats just sell them for $2500 and fill 'em up. Those that paid $8K are getting a guaranteed flat bed. Those who paid $2500 and score a business seat are getting lucky.

 

[sudoer]

Before anyone says any of my above requests are unreasonable,

I think all your suggestions are completely fair.

Likewise, each state should be releasing detailed overviews of their weekly caps (and how they get distributed to airlines).

Completely agree. The number of seats assigned to US carriers for direct flights is ridiculous given Aussies in other countries cannot transit in the US unless they have entry rights (the overwhelming majority do not)

IMO we should be strategically allocating seats to carriers like SQ, CX, JL and NH who can serve as transit hubs for both US and EU returning travellers.

 

[henrus]

Completely agree. The number of seats assigned to US carriers for direct flights is ridiculous given Aussies in other countries cannot transit in the US unless they have entry rights (the overwhelming majority do not)

You still need to remember the United States has the 2nd highest number of Aussies living abroad. Those coming from Canada are also able to transit via the US meaning the number in Canada+US is quite high.

So I've just done a bit of digging:

Weekly Passenger Cap (as reported on AFF)
490 passengers in South Australia
500 passengers in Queensland (a 50% reduction)
512 passengers in Western Australia (a 50% reduction)
1,120 passengers in Victoria
1,505 passengers in NSW (a 50% reduction)

Ignoring the QF flights that's a total of 4127 people per week right now until 15 Feb.

So I've then had a look at the United and have figured out the following based on seat maps. It could be inaccurate but I'm going to assume that it's close given they'd likely be filling to the cap.

LAX - SYD - 5x per week - Average of 18 people per flight - 90 per week or ~2.18% of total cap.
UA839 - 31 Jan - 16 seats
UA839 - 30 Jan - 15 seats
UA839 - 2 Feb - 23 seats

SFO - SYD - 7x per week - Average of 21 people per flight - 147 per week or ~3.56% of total cap.
UA863 - 30 jan - 15 seats
UA863 - 31 jan - 23 seats
UA863 - 1 feb - 28 seats
UA863 - 2 feb - 18 steats

So this means that just United alone has ~5.74% of the total cap bringing in around 237 people per week. Both United and Delta said they can't disclose what their allocation is which is just crazy and adds to the whole mystery of the caps.

Mind you that's nothing given the QF110 LHR-DRW flight in the air right now has 161 people on board (according to the J+Y seat maps) + 140 people on the last flight.

 

[Ric]

Are these flights from UK and USA going straight to Darwin for Howard Springs?

 

[dajop]

IMO we should be strategically allocating seats to carriers like SQ, CX, JL and NH who can serve as transit hubs for both US and EU returning travellers.

What has made this particularly difficult right now (and perhaps why we are seeing a sudden uptick in QF charter flights from LHR at the moment) is some countries imposing carriage restrictions on non-residents, for example Singapore currently won't allow SQ to carry passengers who have been in the UK in the previous 14 days (unless they are Singapore citizens or permanent residents). I think Hong Kong had imposed similar restrictions, not sure if they are still in place.

Unfortunately QF doesn't have the financial depth (government backing) to run this as a routine LHR-DRW weekly or twice weekly service, although it seems to be that way now...