Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[moa999]

range is not the issue - If an A330-200 can make the distance then the A350-1000ULR can.

A 330-200 can only make the distance empty..
Much as the test Dreamliner flights a few years ago made the distance with 10-20 pax onboard.

Unfortunately empty aircraft generally don't make money.

This test 350 aircraft is filled with water pipes that can mimic a full load, though unclear if they were doing that fully for this first long haul test.

 

[Quickstatus]

A 330-200 can only make the distance empty..

It is an issue when you take payload into equation, for a 2009 A332

Hence my point that range is determined by payload and the other factors I mentioned. You can adjust the payload to make the destination possible.
QF would not have signed the contract if it were uncertain that the aircraft could make the range with the expected payload that would make the project profitable. Certainly, this flight may be used to confirm the fuel burn numbers for the payload it carried. It is a bit late in the game if the numbers dont work.

 

[Layslow]

Did anyone else find the ULH flight to Melbourne a bit patronising? Lets face it - they have no intention of doing London or NY direct - but they decide to do a practice flight to once again tease something they will never deliver upon (international wifi anyone?), in this case to Melbourne...

 

[elanshin]

Did anyone else find the ULH flight to Melbourne a bit patronising? Lets face it - they have no intention of doing London or NY direct - but they decide to do a practice flight to once again tease something they will never deliver upon (international wifi anyone?), in this case to Melbourne...

No i think you're overthinking it here. MEL was likely chosen over SYD for a whole bunch of operational reasons for the test. This could be anything from the distance they wanted, how busy MEL is vs SYD, diversions if necessary.

(Also idk what the swipe at wifi is about - at this point the majority of QFi fleet and flights has a functional internet onboard- just missing the 380s. They have delivered on it albeit very late).

 

[Mwenenzi]

FWIW I was arriving this morning on NZ121 immediately behind the QF A350-1000LR and got to say it was a nice surprise seeing this aircraft in the raw on the taxiway as we landed.

Pulled into T2 Gate 9 so a good view for those in the QF F Lounge and others waiting in the terminal.

I was in the MEL T2 Marhaba Lounge, but had to leave to board a flight just before it arrived.
As I was departing was a squadron of people (mainly male) on the elevator and filing into the QF first lounge.
On the ramp was a posse of MEL airport safety-security SUV~utes and some white van~utes, Some left and other joined the posse.
Am 95% sure the Marhaba Lounge would have better for photos being on the side and not above.

 

[dajop]

Certainly, this flight may be used to confirm the fuel burn numbers for the payload it carried. It is a bit late in the game if the numbers dont work.

Is this flight even proving much, or just getting to the aircraft to where it needs to be to do the proper test of fuel burn etc (i.e. going back to Europe)? Look at QF10 LHR-PER no problems with the current detours in place. QF9 PER-LHR, not so much.

 

[elanshin]

Is this flight even proving much, or just getting to the aircraft to where it needs to be to do the proper test of fuel burn etc (i.e. going back to Europe)? Look at QF10 LHR-PER no problems with the current detours in place. QF9 PER-LHR, not so much.

Its proving that this specific variant of the a350 can fly this distance with a simulated payload and the general conditions on board. I'm pretty sure thats a necessary component to getting the -1000ULR certified for the job it was built for.

It's one thing to have it all calculated on paper, its another to go and actually do it.

 

[Melburnian1]

No i think you're overthinking it here. MEL was likely chosen over SYD for a whole bunch of operational reasons for the test. This could be anything from the distance they wanted, how busy MEL is vs SYD, diversions if necessary.

Operational reasons it may have been, but I bet nowhere today has QFi admitted that it's a long time before MEL will see nonstop flights from this airline to LHR and JFK.

Many readers/viewers of print/online media or TV news viewers will automatically believe 'goodness, there'll be nonstops to those two destinations from Melbourne Airport' when this clearly ain't so in 2027.

It's insulting to what will in a few short years be Australia's largest city by population to have had previous suggestions MEL will be 'on the map' when clearly it isn't at this stage, if ever. Air Sydney it is.

And it begs the question: the route is LHR-SYD so why not make that the first test, travelling at similar or identical times to what the timetable will be? QFi must have a very good idea if it is, for instance, to be a c.0800 hours LHR departure. Much less fuel would have been burnt on the ground in Toulouse prior to take off compared to waiting in a queue at Heathrow.

Talk about over-hyping and under delivering for Melbourne!

 

[dajop]

Its proving that this specific variant of the a350 can fly this distance with a simulated payload and the general conditions on board. I'm pretty sure thats a necessary component to getting the -1000ULR certified for the job it was built for.

It's one thing to have it all calculated on paper, its another to go and actually do it.

I get that. My point was the true test is in the other direction, not this direction. Same distance, but slower ground speed, greater time and greater fuel requirement. QF aren't planning to fly SYD-SIN-LHR-SYD they need to fly SYD-LHR-SYD. I'm just a numpty but I assume it takes more fuel to get from Sydney to Perth than Perth to Sydney because the plane has to stay in the air longer.

 

[elanshin]

I'm confused here. Did someone internally copy pasta from their old operating MO or is there something we're missing here?

Qantas intends to base some of its Airbus A350-1000LRs at Melbourne Airport, which will enable the airline to operate flights to new international destinations. These aircraft are part of the airline’s order for 12 Airbus A350-1000LRs, which are in addition to the Project Sunrise ultra-long-range aircraft.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/the-qantas-group-and-melbourne-airport-to-unlock-more-flights-airport-expansion

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm confused here. Did someone internally copy pasta from their old operating MO or is there something we're missing here?

Talking about non-Sunrise flights - replacing A380 routes (and others) I believe. Or were you referring to something else?

 

[elanshin]

Talking about non-Sunrise flights - replacing A380 routes (and others) I believe. Or were you referring to something else?

The quoted text specifically in their PR announcement where they were discussing basing a350-1000LR at MEL.

 

[AuSammy]

The quoted text specifically in their PR announcement where they were discussing basing a350-1000LR at MEL.

Yes LR not ULR

 

[RooFlyer]

The quoted text specifically in their PR announcement where they were discussing basing a350-1000LR at MEL.

Aren't these the 'ordinary' A350-1000s (called -1000LR) in addition to the 12 ULRs? Have they previously ruled out basing these at MEL?

https://www.qantas.com/en-au/onboard/fleet/new-fleet

 

[SYD]

Aren't these the 'ordinary' A350-1000s (called -1000LR) in addition to the 12 ULRs?

Yes

Have they previously ruled out basing these at MEL?

No. Quite the opposite.

 

[SYD]

I get that. My point was the true test is in the other direction, not this direction. Same distance, but slower ground speed, greater time and greater fuel requirement. QF aren't planning to fly SYD-SIN-LHR-SYD they need to fly SYD-LHR-SYD. I'm just a numpty but I assume it takes more fuel to get from Sydney to Perth than Perth to Sydney because the plane has to stay in the air longer.

They’re flying the reverse route on Monday.

 

[cwd]

Have Qantas just made up an LR variant of the A350-1000? As far as I know there are only A350-1000 and A350-1000ULR variants. Are they hoping people think their non-ULR ones are special?

 

[jb747]

I wonder if it is better to use Nautical miles (Nm) - at least that is the common unit of distance in aviation.

Yes, you should. A nautical mile is a minute of latitude (i.e. 60 nm to a degree). Very useful when the GPS goes out. Statute miles are history, except in a couple of fairly strange places.

My trouble, as a non-avgeek I have no sense of a nautical mile. I know MEL-SYD is about 440 mi, SYD-SIN about 3900 mi, PER-MEL about 1700 mi, SIN-JFK about 9500 mi without looking these up. Learnt through years of accumulating miles

But does an FF mile have any relationship to a navigation mile?

Hence my point that range is determined by payload and the other factors I mentioned. You can adjust the payload to make the destination possible.
QF would not have signed the contract if it were uncertain that the aircraft could make the range with the expected payload that would make the project profitable. Certainly, this flight may be used to confirm the fuel burn numbers for the payload it carried. It is a bit late in the game if the numbers dont work.

This sort of flight is meant to prove that the aircraft actually performs as predicted. Not everything has in the past, so you'd be silly to accept delivery before it's demonstrated, under the sort of conditions you expect. But, whether you go from London to Sydney, or Helsinki to Adelaide makes no difference...as long as the actual performance matches the predictions. Even missing by 1% is very significant.

 

[SYD]

Have Qantas just made up an LR variant of the A350-1000? As far as I know there are only A350-1000 and A350-1000ULR variants. Are they hoping people think their non-ULR ones are special?

By design, the A351 is the “LR” variant. The “ULR” nomenclature is not an official Airbus variant. Currently, it’s unique to the QF aircraft, so not unreasonable to try and differentiate the two models.

 

[Saab34]

Does Runway 27 not have an area under the approach path to watch? I recall about 20 years ago in my teenage years, you could drive off the side of the road and there was big areas off the side to watch.

Everyone seemed to be lined up for a Runway 34 arrival. Sure would suck to be down near the threshold.