Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[hutch]

The A330 was always intended for shorter int flights.
It used to have 2 loos for J: Joyce removed one (just as he cut the number on the A380): he probably said this was based on customer feedback i.e. we didn't need loos on long haul flights.
I agree that any one of the items I listed is not a reason to change airlines or routes but it is the overall package that makes the difference.
As the the QF schedule (apart from no longer flying to/from MEL) the very early morning arrival at LHR and on flights to AU via SIN is really bad for jet lag. QF has 2 slots with jet lag- friendly arrival times but do not use most of them (the QF10 is the only good slot they use). Other airlines offer really good arrival times for jet lag, an important reason to not fly QF.
I know the cabin crew are ambarrassed to be working on these aircraft they are so far below par.

The beautiful thing about options is you don't need to fly QF... Or EK... Or any other airline that does not meet your needs, standards or has annoyed you at some point.

 

[Quickstatus]

They just don't care about MEL

The Adelaidians would say that's nothing compared to ADL.

 

[justinbrett]

The Adelaidians would say that's nothing compared to ADL.

Perthians were saying this not long ago, and look at them now. QF promoted them to “Global Hub”

Qantas: Farewell Perth, thanks for the loyalty – opinion

Australia's Leading News Source in Aviation

australianaviation.com.au

 

[Quickstatus]

Perthians were saying this not long ago,

That's the thing about Hubs. Not every town can be an Hub.

 

[mjt57]

QF still start the PER and ROM flights in SYD.

They just don't care about MEL

It's why we flew with Emirates last time round when we went to Europe. I'll lament the day that the A380 is retired.

 

[piec]

What’s wrong with an A330? If seated in whY, I’d take that over an A380 or B787. J is essentially identical.

The A330 is louder and has worse air (cabin pressure/humidity).

 

[justinbrett]

That's the thing about Hubs. Not every town can be an Hub.

The point is that things can change.

 

[Quickstatus]

point is that things can change.

it is not a hub anymore when every town is a hub.
Maybe if Adelaide triples its population but Melbourne is already 5.5Mil
In the meantime...

 

[justinbrett]

it is not a hub anymore when every town is a hub.
Maybe if Adelaide triples its population but Melbourne is already 5.5Mil
In the meantime...

What's that got to do with the conversation?

Point was PER went from zero international services to being a full international hub.

The "QF doesn't care about MEL" comments are almost identical to the comments about PER a decade ago.

Things can and do change.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

According to aerolola the business class seats are 21 inches wide in the a380 and ‘only’ 20 inches wide on the a330. Bed length is the same in both at 80 inches.

I guess there’s more sense if space on the a380 with the side bins.

 

[Quickstatus]

What's that got to do with the conversation?

Well for one, the town has to be big enough to be a hub (apart from the geographical position). For example, ASP is never going to be a hub

I would not say that PER is a global hub either.
It is mainly a point to point origin/destination with a few connections from the eastern cities. ADLas a hub does not make sense if PER,MEL and SYD are hubs.

 

[DejaBrew]

I would not say that PER is a global hub either.

If Qantas view it as a “Global Hub” - or even just a “hub” in their network - then I guess that makes it a hub even if it doesn’t match someone else’s definition

 

[Quickstatus]

hub

Happy to call it a small hub

 

[jrfsp]

Well for one, the town has to be big enough to be a hub (apart from the geographical position). For example, ASP is never going to be a hub

I would not say that PER is a global hub either.
It is mainly a point to point origin/destination with a few connections from the eastern cities. ADLas a hub does not make sense if PER,MEL and SYD are hubs.

Back in the days of QF Link 146s and 717s, QF used to do a great scissor hub out of ASP connecting lots of regional cities with the most direct route through the red centre, was great!

 

[Melburnian1]

What's that got to do with the conversation?

Point was PER went from zero international services to being a full international hub.

The "QF doesn't care about MEL" comments are almost identical to the comments about PER a decade ago.

Things can and do change.

Qantas has had many years to cement Melbourne as an alternative hub but has failed to do so.

It remains 'Air Sydney' even though (depending on where statistical boundaries are drawn) Melbourne is on track to exceed Sydney's population in a few short years.

Sydney with its strengths in finance and investments is Australia's only 'international city' but it's hard to believe there isn't a substantial reservoir of wealth in Melbourne that would support numerous premium class seats each day and ensure yields were sufficiently attractive. One only has to look at the success of SQ ex MEL (excellent occupied seat percentages, five daily flights each way) and (while probably still affected by the Iran-USA/Israel war) EK and QR, plus a plethora of other Asian carriers such as CX to see how treating Melbourne with the respect it deserves pays dividends for airlines.

 

[mviy]

What’s wrong with an A330? If seated in whY, I’d take that over an A380 or B787. J is essentially identical.

Obviously no PE or F.

No PE and no F and a smaller plane likely means upgrades harder to come by and a very poor experience to book PE or F and be in a lower cabin for the A330 leg as no PE or F.

 

[dajop]

At least MEL sees a lot more QF services than BCN does with IB (domestic only basically) or MAN does with London Airways (BA - LHR only) .

If it weren’t for QFF points probably less concern about the level of QF service from MEL. MEL is served very well by SQ, EK, CX, MH, TG,, ,NZ, QR and even to a lesser extent by UA, AI and LN. QF perhaps is just one of many choices for international flights and that’s the way they even see it themselves it seems.

 

[transpactraveller]

I think that's also part of the reason they prefer SYD as the more profitable option to concentrate on with a limited fleet of ULH aircraft. SYD's slot constrained with a curfew, which limits competition. Similarly BA has the same advantage at LHR.

 

[SYD]

No PE and no F and a smaller plane likely means upgrades harder to come by and a very poor experience to book PE or F and be in a lower cabin for the A330 leg as no PE or F.

My comment was emphasising the whY configuration.

I personally try and sit in a further forward cabin on medium/longhaul flights, but I would accept a day flight on an A330 over any current and future alternative when travelling solo or as a couple. The A332-LR upgrades with whY+ should be quite good. A shame they didn’t sneak a couple of rows of PE…

We should be careful what we wish for - peeps will look back fondly at a 2-4-2 seat config whilst shoehorned into 3-3-3/3-4-3.

Up front, I don’t find the A330s noisy and it’s only a subset that has one loo (which is dumb). But presumably it’s the newer (younger than A380s) sub fleet with two loos are getting the refurb?

 

[justinbrett]

Qantas has had many years to cement Melbourne as an alternative hub but has failed to do so.

It remains 'Air Sydney' even though (depending on where statistical boundaries are drawn) Melbourne is on track to exceed Sydney's population in a few short years.

Sydney with its strengths in finance and investments is Australia's only 'international city' but it's hard to believe there isn't a substantial reservoir of wealth in Melbourne that would support numerous premium class seats each day and ensure yields were sufficiently attractive. One only has to look at the success of SQ ex MEL (excellent occupied seat percentages, five daily flights each way) and (while probably still affected by the Iran-USA/Israel war) EK and QR, plus a plethora of other Asian carriers such as CX to see how treating Melbourne with the respect it deserves pays dividends for airlines.

The problem for MEL is its geographic location. North American flights practically overfly SYD before crossing the Pacific. European flights are longer compared to launching from PER or DRW. Even as a domestic hub, other than Tasmania, it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The other problem with MEL is they see themselves as an equal to SYD, mostly due to creative statistical areas leading to “largest city in Australia” claims - but the catchment area of SYD within a 3 hour drive, including CBR, NTL WOL, the geographic centre of East coast cities including BNE, ADL and MEL, and being by far the most attractive city for tourists and business - it’s completely sensible for QF to focus on SYD. And better to hub out of SYD than to split services between the two.

It’s completely normal for foreign carriers to serve more cities than local carriers - BA almost exclusively fly longhaul out of London, AA from its hubs, it’s the same just about everywhere.