Qantas looking at direct flights to Brazil

[pauly7]

QANTAS is considering tapping into the booming Brazilian economy by flying either to Sao Paulo or the popular tourist destination of Rio de Janiero.
Any decision by the airline to launch flights to Brazil is likely to result in it dropping services to Argentina's capital, Buenos Aires, because of insufficient traffic to maintain two routes to South America.

Qantas looking at direct flights to Brazil

 

[docjames]

I saw this article a few minutes ago.

The thing is, you'd need to charge a significant fare premium to recoup the fact that it would not be possible without a reduced load (pax and/or cargo).

Frankly, they'd almost be better doing a tag from SCL if they want to serve Brazil. Or use the codeshare on LAN. Or tag from EZE I guess.

IMO flights that come with a payload restriction are rarely economic and dont last the slightest downturn.

 

[anat0l]

According to the straight design specs, an A380 could make the flight with full payload (with about 1000 nm to spare). Whether that is within safety or procedural guidelines is a whole different thing (and I don't know that). This is based on SYD-GRU (if that is the best choice cf. GIG).

Perhaps QF could tag stop in AKL? Inconvenient, perhaps...

We should have a whole big rant about how SYD-EZE was always a mistake (at least according to the article the route was not making squat; this was one of the first routes to go non-F/3-class).

 

[Sethor]

SYD-GRU is 7,228nm according to the great circle mapper, the 747-400 maximum range at MTOW is 7,260nm & 7,670nm for the 747-400ER. This route should be doable with weight restrictions on the ER (or unrestricted with the A380), does anyone know if the current SYD-EZE route has much cargo?
If SYD-GRU goes ahead it will take over MEL-LAX (6,883nm) as QF's longest non stop route.

 

[anat0l]

If SYD-GRU goes ahead it will take over MEL-LAX (6,883nm) as QF's longest non stop route.

I don't know why I blurted GRU first instead of GIG - the latter city being more popular than the former.

SYD-GRU would actually rival some of the longest non-stop flights in the world (I believe it would take 5th place). (Note this is based on GCM, not the actual flight path, which can vary considerably).

Then again, why let SYD have all the fun? Why not give it the new route to MEL instead?

 

[gilby08]

Then again, why let SYD have all the fun? Why not give it the new route to MEL instead?

QF don't really like MEL though! They give nothing to MEL!

 

[anat0l]

QF don't really like MEL though! They give nothing to MEL!

Well.... they did give them an F lounge. And a few A380 services. BNE is the next biggest in Australia and we got nothin' (apart from having all F services ripped out of BNE).

It's never too late to start rectifying sins . After all, remember that SYD is bursting and a lacklustre Mac Bank and government aren't doing anything serious about it any time soon....

 

[NYCguy]

... Why let SYD have all the fun? Why not give it the new route to MEL instead?

MEL makes more sense from a airport-capacity perspective. At the other end, GRU would be a much better option than GIG. Sure, Rio is a pretty town, but Sao Paulo is where the money is, with the city's GDP making up about 13% of the national total. Rich people buy high-yield airfares. Tourists (generally) don't. And even then, would there be enough VFR/tourist traffic to fill those cheap seats down the back that are subsidized by the pax up the front?

 

[docjames]

SYD-GRU is 7,228nm according to the great circle mapper, the 747-400 maximum range at MTOW is 7,260nm & 7,670nm for the 747-400ER. This route should be doable with weight restrictions on the ER (or unrestricted with the A380), does anyone know if the current SYD-EZE route has much cargo?
If SYD-GRU goes ahead it will take over MEL-LAX (6,883nm) as QF's longest non stop route.

DOnt forget these are still air ranges. There'd be huge wind implications, especially presumably on the return leg.

IIRC the A380 takes a payload restrictions some days on MEL-LAX so I think it would be payload restricted too.

Also, I get different mileages on great circle mapper.

GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W)MEL (37°40'24"S 144°50'36"E)190° (S)8164 mi
GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W)SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E)196° (S)8318 mi
GIG (22°48'32"S 43°14'37"W)MEL (37°40'24"S 144°50'36"E)187° (S)8237 mi
GIG (22°48'32"S 43°14'37"W)SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E)193° (S)8414 mi

These also overfly Antartica, and Qantas IIRC have a rule about how far south they will fly.

SYD-EZE is 7326mi and some days takes payload restrictions too.

 

[tuapekastar]

DOnt forget these are still air ranges. There'd be huge wind implications, especially presumably on the return leg.

IIRC the A380 takes a payload restrictions some days on MEL-LAX so I think it would be payload restricted too.

Also, I get different mileages on great circle mapper.

GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W)MEL (37°40'24"S 144°50'36"E)190° (S)8164 mi
GRU (23°25'55"S 46°28'10"W)SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E)196° (S)8318 mi
GIG (22°48'32"S 43°14'37"W)MEL (37°40'24"S 144°50'36"E)187° (S)8237 mi
GIG (22°48'32"S 43°14'37"W)SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E)193° (S)8414 mi

These also overfly Antartica, and Qantas IIRC have a rule about how far south they will fly.

SYD-EZE is 7326mi and some days takes payload restrictions too.

I think Sethor's distances are in nautical miles versus yours in statute miles.

 

[NYCguy]

DOnt forget these are still air ranges. There'd be huge wind implications, especially presumably on the return leg.

These also overfly Antartica, and Qantas IIRC have a rule about how far south they will fly.

The EZE-SYD leg often tracks quite a long way inland over the Antarctic continent during the southern winter, in order to escape the polar jetstream.

 

[Sprucegoose]

SYD-GRU is 7,228nm according to the great circle mapper, the 747-400 maximum range at MTOW is 7,260nm & 7,670nm for the 747-400ER. This route should be doable with weight restrictions on the ER (or unrestricted with the A380), does anyone know if the current SYD-EZE route has much cargo?
If SYD-GRU goes ahead it will take over MEL-LAX (6,883nm) as QF's longest non stop route.

perfect for the 787 one muses?

Experts?

 

[docjames]

perfect for the 787 one muses?

Experts?

Perfect except for the increased distance required to stay within 180min/207min of an alternate.

 

[Cheesy]

This is very interesting with the next FIFA World Cup to be held in Brazil in 2014 ... who are the Socceroos major sponsor again?

Obviously I'm not indicating that this is the only reason, but it's an interesting side note.

 

[Fantic125]

Be nice if they did it sooner rather than later.
I'm stuck with ADL-SYD-SCL-GIG return in November with LAN.

 

[dajop]

Be nice if they did it sooner rather than later.
I'm stuck with ADL-SYD-SCL-GIG return in November with LAN.

Impossible!

On LAN it would be more like ADL-SYD-AKL-SCL-GRU-GIG.... SYD-SCL and SCL-GIG are not non-stop flights.

 

[anat0l]

Impossible!

On LAN it would be more like ADL-SYD-AKL-SCL-GRU-GIG.... SYD-SCL and SCL-GIG are not non-stop flights.

Ah well. It's booked as SYD-SCL in any case. The stop is usually indicated as a "1 stop" remark, not as two disjointed segments.

Obviously this will be another non-stop stretch for QF if they choose to proceed (just as SYD-EZE was also non-stop).

 

[dajop]

Ah well. It's booked as SYD-SCL in any case. The stop is usually indicated as a "1 stop" remark, not as two disjointed segments.

Whatever it may be technically, it doesn't alter the fact that it you have to go up and down twice whether it's booked as a single direct flight or two connecting flights. Fantic125 indicated being "stuck" with a certain flight pattern involving two stops, when in reality it is four stops ... which is even worse to be stuck with, and would make a SYD-GIG even more attractive! (although surely if SYD were to fly to GIG it would be SYD-GRU-GIG, as pointed out GRU is where the money is).

 

[kpc]

Impossible!

On LAN it would be more like .....SYD-AKL-SCL-GRU-GIG.... SYD-SCL and SCL-GIG are not non-stop flights.

Done this....not much fun. .>30 hours to get to Rio...

 

[anat0l]

(although surely if SYD were to fly to GIG it would be SYD-GRU-GIG, as pointed out GRU is where the money is).

Now there is an interesting tack - fifth freedom between GRU and GIG.

Extra government approval would be needed for that, and the distance between the two is a mere 210 mi (quite a fifth freedom to make for a large aircraft). But a credible idea for hitting both fairly popular destinations.