Qantas international really needs to step up its game

[En Route]

I've been a QF platinum for 2 years now. I fly to Europe for business at least 8 times a year (often more). Usually through Dubai.

Due to company policy, I am unable to book business class seats (in fact even booking upgradeable seats is actively discouraged). { Maybe I need to change companies }. Consequently, I am often in the parents with kids section.

I book a QF ticket so I have lounge access, priority check-in, priority luggage, etc.. However I try to book a QF flight operated by Emirates. Why?

1. I have never been OP Up'ed (free non-points class operational upgrade) by Qantas on a Qantas international flight. Ever. Even when travelling off-peak. This is over 40 MEL-Europe QF flights via DBX in 3 years. Emirates I have been OP Up'ed 5 times in about 30 flights. (Been Op Up'ed on CX, and BA as well in far fewer flights)
2. I find emirates economy seats are more comfortable with greater recline on the A380 than QF A380.
3. I find Emirates in-flight economy meals are generally better quality.
4. I find Emirates in-flight entertainment has a much greater selection than Qantas
5. Emirates has option of in-flight phone and wi-fi on A380 and 777.
6. Emirates economy does not require the tray table down to hold a drink
7. Emirates arm rests go all the way back into the gap between seats (unlike QF A380's). This is welcome if you are fortunate enough to have a free seat next to you.
8. Luggage comes out quickly almost every time (being platinum, my luggage is tagged as first regardless), whereas the experience is very different on Qantas (makes a difference when trying to exit the airport and not having 200+ passengers ahead trying to exit Melbourne customs).

Qantas may have allied with Emirates for the Europe route, but seem to be a long way behind in operational policy and services for those not on the upper deck or in the pointy end of the plane.

Business class on Emirates is a world of difference to economy, but I've never experienced Qantas business to compare, or even tell if for private travel whether it would be worth the cost difference.

(For the record, I have over 1m QFF points, but when flying Emirates I cannot apply for points upgrade).

Interested in hearing others thoughts.

 

[Quickstatus]

Parents with kids section is often in the pointy end now.

Does your company book your flights?. Maybe the dearth of upgrades is because the company account with QF specifies deeply discounted fares?.

Time to change companies. 8 times a year is a lot of miles in Y going all the way to Europe.

Do you get any platinum crumbs thrown your way when sitting Crush class?- exit row seat choice, extra pillow, nicer drink, CSM greeting?

Thank you though for the comparison between EK and QF and the greater recline in EK Y. What is the footrest arrangement?

 

[RailFlyer]

Ditto all of the above for comparison on the Transtasman route, but difference there is even bigger in 737 vs A380. You didn't mention if you prefer the Emirates lounge. As a SG it is much better for me, but then I don't have access to QF First lounge like you do. I now even change my schedule to fly EK TT, so the argument of QF having better frequencies is limited.

 

[defurax]

1. I have never been OP Up'ed (free non-points class operational upgrade) by Qantas on a Qantas international flight. Ever. Even when travelling off-peak. This is over 40 MEL-Europe QF flights via DBX in 3 years. Emirates I have been OP Up'ed 5 times in about 30 flights. (Been Op Up'ed on CX, and BA as well in far fewer flights)

I think it's great that people get op-up on EK (I never got any...but that's not the point). I think QF and EK have very different approaches to fill their planes, for example in October I flew to London on QF and F and J cabins were full, while only 180 PAX were in Y, this could mean that QF has no problem filling premium cabins. My understanding is that EK systematically oversells Y, but considering that EK is now taking delivery of some A380 without F and with 557 Y seats, maybe fewer up-op will occur on these routes.

I can only guess that QF has enough PAX booking upgradable fares so that op-up are rarely required. The only international op-up I ever got was on CX after HKG airport was shut for one day due to a storm.

What I'm curious about though is the complete randomness of EK op-up, it doesn't seem to be status based as I heard of lot of QF NB getting op-up.

 

[russ]

It seems that QFi is serving you very well by allowing you to fly Emirates. Well done QFi!

 

[kermatu]

A few thoughts from me on the thoughtful comparisons you have made:

- I have had one op-up on EK (J to F). None on QF, even as a P1. Far more flights in QF. It frustrates me more domestically and Trans-Tasman where there are often vacant J seats or they are taken by staff members. But long haul more often than not in my observations the QF J and F cabins are full. EK can be full or almost empty. I don't think I'll ever understand how these things are determined, so while I may complain at lack of op-ups, I feel rather unqualified.

- I find QF service to be consistently good, irrespective of class of travel. EK can be hit and miss in my (and family / friends) experience.

- At its best EK J and F are outstanding, and I prefer EK J to QF J - particularly when flying solo.

- Entertainment options much of a muchness in my opinion. Priority boarding and baggage the same.

Overall I feel more 'comfortable' and confident of a consistent service with QF. But it falls short of EK in quite a few ways.

 

[andye]

8 times a year and not even PE is very tough (unless you are working for a charity).

I had flights (accompanied by three of the Mstr andyes) on QFi and EK in Y this year.

Pros and cons of both:
QF staff more attentive than EK but no complaints with either
Seats equally comfortable
Food equal
EK IFE better

In J I slightly prefer QF to EK as the food and drink is better. I'm quite happy with the Skybed configuration which I find a bit more comfortable than the EK 'pod'

 

[vantage03]

In my experience (mostly in F) the reason QF premium cabins are consistently full is that they're full of QF staff travel pax. You can see it on the manifest in the galley, and it's blatantly obvious when you see the F cabin almost always showing F7,8,9 etc 24 hours out, then boarding to see a full cabin.

 

[JohnK]

I have never been OP Up'ed (free non-points class operational upgrade) by Qantas on a Qantas international flight. Ever. Even when travelling off-peak. This is over 40 MEL-Europe QF flights via DBX in 3 years. Emirates I have been OP Up'ed 5 times in about 30 flights. (Been Op Up'ed on CX, and BA as well in far fewer flights.

I have been Platinum since 2007. I have had a number of op-ups on international flights mostly at peak times. Also had 2 op-ups to business on a return SYD-BKK flight as Silver in 2004-2005.

I find emirates economy seats are more comfortable with greater recline on the A380 than QF A380.

Not a good selling point for those that have to sit behind a recliner.

I haven't tried Emirates economy but the stories I have been reading on AFF do not encourage me to go and try them in a hurry. I was going to book BNE-AKL return and SYD-AKL return to try out the A380 in economy. Waiting for next Qantas special.

Travelled Emirates business BKK-HKG yesterday on A380 and pre-allocated upper deck window seat. I was in 14K which is one of the seats that has a narrow passage to get to seat. Struggled to get through the passage to sit down. Asked for bloody mary and the drink arrived without any ice and it was warm. I have not experienced this on any airline. Ever. Didn't complain. Meal came around and I cannot get the tray table down. Meal was put down next to me and I had to eat side on.

Sevice is OK but Emirates are not going to get a glowing review from me.

Now on the other hand the next flight was Qantas HKG-SYD in business in 5J. Guess what?

 

[Buzzard]

Maybe En Route you should shout yourself an EK J flight from AKL - MEL, a 4 hour flight as a sampler, and see what you think.

I doubt you will be disappointed.

 

[andye]

Definitely agree about the EK Y cupholder. So simple but useful

 

[Pushka]

It seems that QFi is serving you very well by allowing you to fly Emirates. Well done QFi!

Allowing? Funny. Qantas quit flying Internationally into South Australia. But not complaining. In six Emirates flights in 12 months we have been upgraded three times. In years of flying Qantas (WP) just once.

JohnK - the worst Emirates route is that BKK one. Our experience Syd - BKK was rank. We got the op-up on the way back to F which was wonderful. We had a dreadful service SQ from Rome to Sin and that is known as a poor service SQ route.

 

[snabbu]

Ditto all of the above for comparison on the Transtasman route, but difference there is even bigger in 737 vs A380. You didn't mention if you prefer the Emirates lounge. As a SG it is much better for me, but then I don't have access to QF First lounge like you do. I now even change my schedule to fly EK TT, so the argument of QF having better frequencies is limited.

Agreed on all counts.

I also now try and make my schedule work with the EK options SYD-AKL/CHC-SYD. Lounge wise in AKL the EK option knocks both the QF JL and FL out of the water. As a data point, the QF FL in SYD has removed Veuve from the champagne options. TBH I don't really know why, cost cutting perhaps? That's in the flagship QF FL... however the regular EK lounge in AKL has it readily available to free pour... yes please.

Additionally the 388 over the 737 (in Y, can't compare the J product), a no brainer for me. The EK soft product is also IMHO light years ahead of QF.

 

[defurax]

In my experience (mostly in F) the reason QF premium cabins are consistently full is that they're full of QF staff travel pax. You can see it on the manifest in the galley, and it's blatantly obvious when you see the F cabin almost always showing F7,8,9 etc 24 hours out, then boarding to see a full cabin.

I'm happy to hear that from someone else. I've heard many times crew in QF J saying that 50% of F cabin is QF staff. I didn't mention it before because I couldn't find any mention of it on AFF.

 

[vantage03]

Seriously just walk into the galley next time and take a look at the very indiscreet passenger manifest and you'll see how many staff travel pax are sitting in F for $200 when you've either dished out >$10K or 200,000 points each way. It's infuriating and one of the reasons my $ go elsewhere when I have the choice.

 

[PineappleSkip]

My experience of EK largely on A343 and A345 between KBL and DXB.

I have never been OP Up'ed (free non-points class operational upgrade) by Qantas on a Qantas international flight. Ever. Even when travelling off-peak. This is over 40 MEL-Europe QF flights via DBX in 3 years. Emirates I have been OP Up'ed 5 times in about 30 flights. (Been Op Up'ed on CX, and BA as well in far fewer flights)

Lots of op-ups on EK, both from Y to J and from J to F. I have seen others get op-ups from Y to F on EK. I'd rate my chances of getting a Y to F upgrade on QF lower than my chances of climbing a ladder to the moon. Also been moved to a vacant bulkhead aisle when no upgrade was available on EK.

I find Emirates in-flight entertainment has a much greater selection than Qantas

As a westerner, I find more that appeals to me on QF.

Emirates has option of in-flight phone and wi-fi on A380 and 777.

Not sure if people using mobiles inflight is a bonus for other PAX. I have often had difficulty getting the inflight phone connection to work.

Business class on Emirates is a world of difference to economy, but I've never experienced Qantas business to compare, or even tell if for private travel whether it would be worth the cost difference.

If comparing A380 to A380 hard product, I's agree. I think EK A380 is comparable to QF refurbished A330 and EK 777 comparable to QF A380, albeit IIRC the latter has angled flat beds. I also like EK Y better than QF Y, even in the clunking old A343s.

Service: Agree with others that QF service is much more consistent and particularly in the last 12 months, tends to be better. EK service is haphazard. Sometimes it's great. Sometimes it's sh!te. Often EK treat QF WPs very well, just like EK WPs. But then there are those EK flights with carefactor zero and cabin crew over it factor very high.

Lounges: On AUS to DXB, its even stevens. Same lounge options either way.

DXB experience: probably comparable if flying on A380s, but beware of connecting flights on other aircraft from remote gates. My record bus trip is 45 minutes (including a lengthy tarmac traffic jam) from gate to stairs. Various things appear to get stuffed up a lot in DXB. Would be same experience in QF (EK) codeshare or EK flights, but DXB is not a positive for EK.

Cheers skip

 

[harvyk]

Just reading over this, I find it a little amusing that operational upgrades are part of the reason the OP is talking about dropping QF.
I always expect to fly in the seat I've booked, nothing more, if an OP-UP comes my way I'm certainly very happy, but the lack of OP-UP's is not a reason IMHO, and I can certainly understand why an airline would do all it could to avoid giving them out.

On the other stuff, if EK suits your needs better, fly EK. It's not exactly rocket science.

Since you have 1m FF points, if you don't want to play the QF upgrade lottery (and can't use them on other airlines), use them for classic awards. International J classic awards are pretty decent use of points IMHO, especially if you can be a little flexible. The taxes co-pay screws things over a little, but if you treat it like a discount Y seat with a guaranteed upgrade it softens the blow a little bit.

 

[marki]

For staff it's so cheap they quoted a price that was very very .....,,,affordable